Why healing is not holiness

[HopeSings]

I thought I would make my own thread so I don't derail the other thread on healing

Why did Paul boast in his infirmities? Why did he tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his often infirmities? Why does Romans chapter 8 say that pestilence can't separate us from God's love? Please realize that this chapter is teaching us that we will face great hardship and not have good health necesarily. Indeed we are sheep led to the slaughter.

Jesus did physical miracles as a sign but in my opinion the real promise is spiritual healing. Jesus said that the sick need a physician and he refers to sin and spirital blindness but not physical illness.

What we do when promising physical healing is destroy people's faith. They end up thinking that their faith is false because they dont get physical healing. They torment themselves instead of growing in grace. Paul said that God's grace was sufficient for his infirmities. I have mental illness or spiritual warfare. I'm OK. God loves me. My body is old and run down. Its ok.


2 Corinthians 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,

18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[HopeSings]

Paul wanted to know the sufferings of Christ. He didn't just say that he was healed by the Lord's stripes but he endured the Lord's stripes himself. He had infirmities.

1 Corinthians 1:27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;

Romans 10:19 But I say, did Israel not know? First Moses says: “I will provoke you to jealousy by those who are not a nation, I will move you to anger by a foolish nation.”

Isaiah 60:22 A little one shall become a thousand, And a small one a strong nation.
I, the Lord, will hasten it in its time.”

Romans 10:21 But to Israel he says: “All day long I have stretched out My hands
To a disobedient and contrary people.”

Matthew 18:3 and said, “Assuredly, I say to you, unless you are converted and become as little children, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore whoever humbles himself as this little child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 Whoever receives one little child like this in My name receives Me.

Philippians 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;
the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth.

27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption.

31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

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[RandyPNW]

I thought I would make my own thread so I don't derail the other thread on healing

Why did Paul boast in his infirmities? Why did he tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his often infirmities? Why does Romans chapter 8 say that pestilence can't separate us from God's love? Please realize that this chapter is teaching us that we will face great hardship and not have good health necesarily. Indeed we are sheep led to the slaughter.

Jesus did physical miracles as a sign but in my opinion the real promise is spiritual healing. Jesus said that the sick need a physician and he refers to sin and spirital blindness but not physical illness.

What we do when promising physical healing is destroy people's faith. They end up thinking that their faith is false because they dont get physical healing. They torment themselves instead of growing in grace. Paul said that God's grace was sufficient for his infirmities. I have mental illness or spiritual warfare. I'm OK. God loves me. My body is old and run down. Its ok.


2 Corinthians 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,

18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

God has rights, as Creator and Lord, over our lives. We may be innocent and yet be given to become casualties of this ungodly world. Or, we may make bad decisions, and suffer consequences for it.

Regardless, God is after our allegiance, and trusts that through every test He subjects us to we can endure and give Him glory. Remaining in Him gives Him glory, particularly as we go through difficult trials.

Nobody is immune from trouble. We may think that somehow we received the "short stick." But in reality, everybody around us has his or her own problems, though they do a good job covering them up. Arrogant people act as if they always have it all together. We should not be fooled.

We are encouraged when in our faithfulness we see God's faithfulness. We can see His love show up, even if He seems to have been silent a very long time. He will be faithful. And He never forgets.

 

[NBB]

God promised healing in several scriptures, Paul prayed and God resurrected a boy who fell from a building and probably died.

 

[Guojing]

God promised healing in several scriptures, Paul prayed and God resurrected a boy who fell from a building and probably died.

There are many promises God made to different groups of people in scripture.

It does not mean you can claim them, as and when you feel like it.

2 examples.

Abraham was promised numerous descendants in Genesis 15:5.
The 12 were promised to sit on 12 thrones at the 2nd coming in Matthew 19:28.

Can you claim them for yourself, just because these promises are also found in scripture?

 

[Guojing]

I thought I would make my own thread so I don't derail the other thread on healing

Why did Paul boast in his infirmities? Why did he tell Timothy to drink a little wine for his often infirmities? Why does Romans chapter 8 say that pestilence can't separate us from God's love? Please realize that this chapter is teaching us that we will face great hardship and not have good health necesarily. Indeed we are sheep led to the slaughter.

Jesus did physical miracles as a sign but in my opinion the real promise is spiritual healing. Jesus said that the sick need a physician and he refers to sin and spirital blindness but not physical illness.

What we do when promising physical healing is destroy people's faith. They end up thinking that their faith is false because they dont get physical healing. They torment themselves instead of growing in grace. Paul said that God's grace was sufficient for his infirmities. I have mental illness or spiritual warfare. I'm OK. God loves me. My body is old and run down. Its ok.


2 Corinthians 12:8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.

9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

2 Corinthians 4:16 Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory,

18 while we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal.

The key is to rightly divide the word of truth for Israel and the Body of Christ (2 Timothy 2:15)

Jesus first coming was only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (Matthew 15:24)

He healed throughout Israel because OT prophecies stated that Israel will recognize their Messiah has arrived by those healings (Exodus 34:10, Luke 7:19-22)

So us gentiles in the Body of Christ should not directly look at Jesus first coming to claim those same healings that is a central feature of the gospel of the kingdom (Matthew 10:5-8).

We can certainly commit to Christ all our requests, including healing from our physical diseases, since Paul our apostle instructed us to (Philippians 4:6)

The main difference is that Paul did not teach us that healing is promised to us in the Body of Christ. the only promise is that God will send to us his peace, that passes all understanding (Philippians 4:7)

 

[NBB]

There are many promises God made to different groups of people in scripture.

It does not mean you can claim them, as and when you feel like it.

2 examples.

Abraham was promised numerous descendants in Genesis 15:5.
The 12 were promised to sit on 12 thrones at the 2nd coming in Matthew 19:28.

Can you claim them for yourself, just because these promises are also found in scripture?

"And these sign will follow those who believe, in the name of Jesus will cast out devils, they will pray for the sick and they will heal"
"whoever ask something believing God will listen"

 

[Guojing]

"And these sign will follow those who believe, in the name of Jesus will cast out devils, they will pray for the sick and they will heal"
"whoever ask something believing God will listen"

At least complete the entire verse, you don't pick up serpents and drink poisonous thing, do you?

That will provide the clue that that particular promise in Mark 16,

1. is for the nation of Israel,
2. during Daniel's 70th week,
3. when the Antichrist will be persecuting them, and they will need to face serpents and drink poison as well.

Its not for you to claim as and when you feel like it today, but you exclude the parts that you don't like.

 

[Teresa W.]

Jesus healed. Jesus was perfect, He did not sin. Everything He did was holy, and the healing Jesus did was holy.

Jesus and God are One. God is perfect and He does not change. He heals today and His healings are holy.

Not trying to be overly simplistic, it just came out that way.

I believe only a few receive instantaneous healing. If we have faith, we will be healed. In God's timing. Sometimes that means not until after we pass away. I have been healed of some things, but not others. I believe God has his reasons, and I only need to accept them, not question them.

 

[Guojing]

Sometimes that means not until after we pass away. I have been healed of some things, but not others. I believe God has his reasons, and I only need to accept them, not question them.

I think how Paul taught us to pray and present our "requests" to God in Philippians 4:6-7, including our anxiety over any health issues, sums up what you are teaching here.

 

[NBB]

At least complete the entire verse, you don't pick up serpents and drink poisonous thing, do you?

That will provide the clue that that particular promise in Mark 16,

1. is for the nation of Israel,
2. during Daniel's 70th week,
3. when the Antichrist will be persecuting them, and they will need to face serpents and drink poison as well.

Its not for you to claim as and when you feel like it today, but you exclude the parts that you don't like.

It's not for the nation of israel, they were doing those things with the 'pagans' in the non jewish churches.

 

[Guojing]

It's not for the nation of israel, they were doing those things with the 'pagans' in the non jewish churches.

Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is given to Israel in the OT.

 

[NBB]

Daniel's 70 weeks prophecy is given to Israel in the OT.

People in 'pagan' churches were told by Paul to seek the best gifts, obviously if they prophetized and had gifts, they also prayed for the sick and cast out demons.

 

[Guojing]

People in 'pagan' churches were told by Paul to seek the best gifts, obviously if they prophetized and had gifts, they also prayed for the sick and cast out demons.

You are making another point now, which has nothing to do with Mark 16:16-17.

I am trying to explain to you why you cannot exclude picking up serpents and drinking deadly thing, from that passage.

 

[NBB]

You are making another point now, which has nothing to do with Mark 16:16-17.

I am trying to explain to you why you cannot exclude picking up serpents and drinking deadly thing, from that passage.

People in pagan churches, cast out demons like that verse says, because they also prophetized and had gifts, idk, So.
You don't need that only verse, Paul told the churches to seek the best gifts, one gift is discernment, which obviously is used to cast out demons.

 

[Guojing]

People in pagan churches, cast out demons like that verse says, because they also prophetized and had gifts, idk, So.
You don't need that only verse, Paul told the churches to seek the best gifts, one gift is discernment, which obviously is used to cast out demons.

You are still deliberately excluding picking up serpents and drinking deadly thing from that Mark 16:16-17 passage on signs, which you earlier used.

If you are uncomfortable with those 2 signs, just say so, and we can move on.

 

[rachelrising]

God has a will. If it is the will of God that someone should be completely healed then that is without question holy. However, I think it is not always the will of God for everyone to receive complete healing in their lifetime. What has been helpful to me on this topic is reading about the life of the Saints, blessed and venerable who served God in their life through different challenges. Some like Saint Marcel dealt with depression and Jesus had great words of compassion for him. Saint John of the Cross faced his own challenges with his mental health as well. Some Saints were also challenged with health challenges. They were all holy as well. I bought myself a book called Saints with disabilities by Pia Matthews which has been very healing for me to read.