Why hate Evolution So?

FreethinkerWWJD · Apr 4, 2012

Why do they hate evolution so much? It's simple.

The same reason they hated the thought of heliocentrism or believing diseases weren't caused by demons.

It went against their church's dogma. But once the dogma changed, people's opinions changed.

The only difference is, today, there are so many different denominations with so many different dogmas that even though the main churches have already accepted evolution, it will take much longer than previously in history for all the denominations to finally make the change.

...and I fear that some fundie cults deep in the Bible belt will have the hardest time changing. But they will all change eventually. If history has taught us anything it's that everything eventually changes.

All we can do it continue to promote free thought and to stop the "Get 'em while their young" deceivers like Ken Ham. If we can just stop the brainwashing it will get better.

Jazer · Apr 4, 2012

coolname123 said:
Evolution is merely a scientific theory that attempts to explain the diversity of life...

Evolution is not so mere. You could fill up a library of books on the subject of evolution because they use evolutionary theory in many areas of science. The problem is all your books are going to be obsolute in a few years. It is more of a soup of the day or flavor of the week because what they say evolution is changes almost daily.

I also don't buy into the literal interpretation of the entire bible...

Perhaps what you mean is that you do not buy into your literal understanding of the Bible. We know we need God to help us to understand the Bible. So people that do not know God tend not to understand the Bible or the written word of God.

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

FreethinkerWWJD said:
...and I fear that some fundie cults deep in the Bible belt will have the hardest time changing. But they will all change eventually. If history has taught us anything it's that everything eventually changes.

Sounds to me like someone needs to read The Trail of Blood, by J.M. Carroll.

Do you know how (and why) Anabaptists got their name?

Jazer · Apr 4, 2012

AV1611VET said:
ID can take a hike.

Sounds like you do not like the idea of trying to put God in a Box. "The term "irreducible complexity" was introduced by biochemist Michael Behe in his 1996 book Darwin's Black Box, " wiki

William Dembski and Behe use the terms ID and IR. In recent years they seem to have fumbled the ball and are not keeping up with the discussion that began with William Paley's watchmaker analogy and his discussion on the eye. "Complex eyes appear to have first evolved within a few million years, in the rapid burst of evolution known as the Cambrian explosion. There is no evidence of eyes before the Cambrian, but a wide range of diversity is evident in the Middle Cambrian Burgess shale" wiki

Jazer · Apr 4, 2012

AV1611VET said:
Do you know how (and why) Anabaptists got their name?

I assume they got their name because of their belief in baptism.

Is a Mennonite anabaptist?

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

Jazer said:
Sounds like you do not like the idea of trying to put God in a Box. "The term "irreducible complexity" was introduced by biochemist Michael Behe in his 1996 book Darwin's Black Box, " wiki

William Dembski and Behe use the terms ID and IR. In recent years they seem to have fumbled the ball and are not keeping up with the discussion that began with William Paley's watchmaker analogy and his discussion on the eye. "Complex eyes appear to have first evolved within a few million years, in the rapid burst of evolution known as the Cambrian explosion. There is no evidence of eyes before the Cambrian, but a wide range of diversity is evident in the Middle Cambrian Burgess shale" wiki

What does Irreducible Complexity have to do with this thread?

I am talking about Intelligent Design.

Irreducible Complexity can take a hike too.

All these ... gadgets are, are attempts to placate scientists, who demand evidence for God and/or Creationism; and to be honest, they not only fail miserably, but they make us Christians look stupid.

I can look stupid without all that ID and IR and other cheap gadetry.

All I would have to do to look stupid is say Jesus walked on water, and that should do it.

Do you really think, Jazer, that your science is honestly making an impact on these guys?

They spend hours in higher aceldama already -- what makes you think they're coming here to learn more?

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

Jazer said:
Is a Mennonite anabaptist?

I don't know.

Jazer · Apr 4, 2012

AV1611VET said:
Do you really think, Jazer, that your science is honestly making an impact on these guys?

My science? I studied theater and the physics of lighting. Additive and subtractive color theories. I use their science. The reason is when they go before God they will be without excuse because their very own science will testify against them. I have nothing to offer anyone. As you are very quick to testify.

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

Jazer said:
The reason is when they go before God they will be without excuse because their very own science will testify against them.

I love (albeit in an ironic sense) the part where all their evidence flees, and leaves them standing before the Judgment Seat empty-handed.

Revelation 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

I can just see an atheist saying, "But all the evidence on the earth pointed to You not existing!?"

And God leaning forward and simply saying, "Show Me."

The exact same words atheists and scientists like to say to us -- "show me" -- is going to be used against them at the Judgment Seat.

And it's sad -- it really is.

coolname123 · Apr 4, 2012

My goodness you guys are a chatty bunch, so if I'm a little behind and cover too much, please forgive me…

AV1611VET said:
"Evolutionists like to say that civilization started out with farming"

Evolutionists may say that, but the theory of evolution itself does not… Evolutionists may also say that snails are cute, but that is in no way relevant to the theory of evolution itself… you can't attach everything someone might say to one belief they hold.

AV1611VET said:
"but the Jews again threw a simian wrench in their computer paradigm by living in the desert for 40 years."

This doesn't really throw a wrench into their diagram as they have farming dating back to long before the 40 years of wandering and even before when we think the creation accounts were written in some cases.

AV1611VET said:
"And for the record, I've started threads where I've begged and begged atheists and Internet scientists to leave God and/or the Bible out of it, but to no avail."

Given how you have so far been engaging with evolution on this thread I'd be super curious how this would look on your end, as I've never seen a good scientific rational for an evolution alternative (and I also have begged on other forum sites for such a source)

AV1611VET said:
"I hold science up to a Higher Standard than even scientists themselves do."

How is this possible to someone who does not believe evolution (I'm just curious as I have yet to hear someone say this that actually understood the discipline of science)

Jazer said:
"Evolution is not so mere."

I know, I even corrected myself in the very next post… I was just trying to put a friendlier face on it for those who may be scared off by it's daunting stature.

Jazer said:
"Perhaps what you mean is that you do not buy into your literal understanding of the Bible"

No, I mean biblical literacy is not my thing… I read the bible and I zoo historic literature as well as poetic literature, reportage as well as wisdom… It's not as clear cut "every word of the bible comes right from the great ones mouth" it is a book of witness and everyone witnesses the great one differently, being able to understand what each person witnessed and how they chose to communicate that is a question that I find incredibly important.

AV1611VET said:
"Do you know how (and why) Anabaptists got their name"

Yup, tends to be one of the first things we learn, right before we learn about all the people to tried to kill us off because of our faith.

Jazer said:
"Is a Mennonite anabaptist?"

Technically yes, as that is the tradition we grew out of… but I suppose as the name anabaptist suggest multiple baptisms one could make the argument that we are no more being as without that initial Catholic baptism to re-do we only have the one "believers Baptism" to worry about.

coolname123 · Apr 4, 2012

sorry about the quotations up there, is there a simple way to pulls quotes? cause I clearly just copied and pasted the tag from one post to every quote up ther so those little arrows don't actually take you back to the posts they originated from (though my way is pretty easy)

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

coolname123 said:
sorry about the quotations up there, is there a simple way to pulls quotes? cause I clearly just copied and pasted the tag from one post to every quote up ther so those little arrows don't actually take you back to the posts they originated from (though my way is pretty easy)

It's the MQ button, between QUOTE and QR on the lower right.

You click on MQ and it will allow you to make multiple quotes.

coolname123 · Apr 4, 2012

thanks, though now that I see where my post wound up, I guess a better thing to say would have been "sorry about my quotes back there" as I seem to have started a new page with that question, hiding my real response at the end of the previous page.

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

coolname123 said:
thanks, though now that I see where my post wound up, I guess a better thing to say would have been "sorry about my quotes back there" as I seem to have started a new page with that question, hiding my real response at the end of the previous page.

You're fine --

coolname123 · Apr 4, 2012

K, So I think I've fixed the quotes now... hopefully these bring you back to the right posts now.

AV1611VET said:
"Evolutionists like to say that civilization started out with farming"

Evolutionists may say that, but the theory of evolution itself does not… Evolutionists may also say that snails are cute, but that is in no way relevant to the theory of evolution itself… you can't attach everything someone might say to one belief they hold.

AV1611VET said:
"but the Jews again threw a simian wrench in their computer paradigm by living in the desert for 40 years."

This doesn't really throw a wrench into their paradigm as they have farming dating back to long before the 40 years of wandering and even before when we think the creation accounts were written in some cases.

AV1611VET said:
"And for the record, I've started threads where I've begged and begged atheists and Internet scientists to leave God and/or the Bible out of it, but to no avail."

Given how you have so far been engaging with evolution on this thread I'd be super curious how this would look on your end, as I've never seen a good scientific rational for an evolution alternative (and I also have begged on other forum sites for such a source)

AV1611VET said:
"I hold science up to a Higher Standard than even scientists themselves do."

How is this possible to someone who does not believe evolution (I'm just curious as I have yet to hear someone say this that actually understood the discipline of science)

Jazer said:
"Evolution is not so mere."

I know, I even corrected myself in the very next post… I was just trying to put a friendlier face on it for those who may be scared off by it's daunting stature.

Jazer said:
"Perhaps what you mean is that you do not buy into your literal understanding of the Bible"

No, I mean biblical literacy is not my thing… I read the bible and I see historic literature as well as poetic literature, reportage as well as wisdom… It's not as clear cut "every word of the bible comes right from the great ones mouth" it is a book of witness and everyone witnesses the great one differently, being able to understand what each person witnessed and how they chose to communicate that is a question that I find incredibly important.

AV1611VET said:
"Do you know how (and why) Anabaptists got their name"

Yup, tends to be one of the first things we learn, right before we learn about all the people who tried to kill us off because of our faith.

Jazer said:
"Is a Mennonite anabaptist?"

Technically yes, as that is the tradition we grew out of… but I suppose as the name Anabaptist suggest multiple baptisms one could make the argument that we are no more, being as without that initial infant baptism to re-do we only have the one "believers Baptism" to worry about these days.

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

coolname123 said:
Technically yes, as that is the tradition we grew out of but I suppose as the name anabaptist suggest multiple baptisms one could make the argument that we are no more being as without that initial Catholic baptism to re-do we only have the one "believers Baptism" to worry about.

There's a reason the Anabaptists were called 'Anabaptists.'

When the Catholic church came to power, they hated those who would not accept their twin doctrines of Baptismal Regeneration & Infant Baptism, and they made it against the law to call these people 'Christians.'

Thus the name 'Anabaptist' for those who re-baptized for membership.

'Anabaptists' were then further identified by the person who became associated within a particular church; thus the 'Donatists,' the 'Montanists,' the 'Waldensens,' etc.

When some tried to reform the Catholic church from within, they ended up losing their lives; so one man, a Catholic priest, got an idea.

If he couldn't reform the church from within, he would do it from without.

That man was Martin Luther, and he started the breakaway religion called Lutheranism.

The Anabaptists came out of hiding to assist him in his endeavors, only to find out, to their horror, that Mr. Luther carried with him that same disregard for anabaptists that was forged w/i the Catholic church.

The Anabaptists now had two enemies: the Catholics and the Lutherans.

Soon joined by two other breakaway religions: the Presbyterians, started as a breakaway religion by John Calvin, and the Anglicans, started by King [somebody the something] -- (I can't remember his name right now).

Now the Anabaptists had four enemies relentlessly hunting them down.

And that's your (and my) history in a nutshell.

CaliforniaSun · Apr 4, 2012

AV1611VET said:
There's a reason the Anabaptists were called 'Anabaptists.'

When the Catholic church came to power, they hated those who would not accept their twin doctrines of Baptismal Regeneration & Infant Baptism, and they made it against the law to call these people 'Christians.'

Thus the name 'Anabaptist' for those who re-baptized for membership.

'Anabaptists' were then further identified by the person who became associated within a particular church; thus the 'Donatists,' the 'Montanists,' the 'Waldensens,' etc.

When some tried to reform the Catholic church from within, they ended up losing their lives; so one man, a Catholic priest, got an idea.

If he couldn't reform the church from within, he would do it from without.

That man was Martin Luther, and he started the breakaway religion called Lutheranism.

The Anabaptists came out of hiding to assist him in his endeavors, only to find out, to their horror, that Mr. Luther carried with him that same disregard for anabaptists that was forged w/i the Catholic church.

The Anabaptists now had two enemies: the Catholics and the Lutherans.

Soon joined by two other breakaway religions: the Presbyterians, started as a breakaway religion by John Calvin, and the Anglicans, started by King [somebody the something] -- (I can't remember his name right now).

Now the Anabaptists had four enemies relentlessly hunting them down.

And that's your (and my) history in a nutshell.

Thanks for elucidating the divergent nature of man-made beliefs.

AV1611VET · Apr 4, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
Thanks for elucidating the divergent nature of man-made beliefs.

You're welcome.

Along that line, the Catholics, assumed legislative power, whereas the Baptists refused to accept legislative power; stating that the Bible was their 'Book of the Law,' and the churches' job was to act as the executive branch, not the legislative branch.

Once the Catholic church obtained legislative power, all sorts of 'doctrines' emerged: Papal Infallibility, Indulgences, Purgatory, Baptism for the Dead, Mariology, praying to saints, etc.

CaliforniaSun · Apr 4, 2012

AV1611VET said:
You're welcome.

Along that line, the Catholics, assumed legislative power, whereas the Baptists refused to accept legislative power; stating that the Bible was their 'Book of the Law,' and the churches' job was to act as the executive branch, not the legislative branch.

Once the Catholic church obtained legislative power, all sorts of 'doctrines' emerged: Papal Infallibility, Indulgences, Purgatory, Baptism for the Dead, Mariology, praying to saints, etc.

And the Baptists went on to handle snakes, own slaves, pass legislation to have myth taught in science classes, deny basic human rights and make generally really awful music.

FreethinkerWWJD · Apr 4, 2012

CaliforniaSun said:
And the Baptists went on to handle snakes, own slaves, pass legislation to have myth taught in science classes, deny basic human rights and make generally really awful music.

It's especially funny to me since I grew up in a Baptist Christian church/school.

So true... One correction though: baptists don't make music, you are only allowed to play music that's found in the dusty old hymnal books in the pews and ONLY play them with a piano. Guitars, drums, and everything electronic is considered sinful.

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