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DarkProphet

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Note that I'm not asking "Why follow God?" I'm asking why follow the Bible. A subtle but very important distinction. Whenever I come to a Christian and ask why they act the way they do (for example shun an ex-Christian or oppose homosexuality) they turn to the Bible and quote a relevant part. That is all fine and good but why would a translation of an ancient text from a far removed culture have any relevance to the issue at hand? So I ask this why do you follow the Bible?
 

ebia

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Because it's the earlier part of the story that makes sense of my part of the story.
 
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Van

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If a person believes the Bible is true, that it is the revelation of God, then to follow what God says in His word is tantamount to following God.

It is true that parts of the Bible are not relevant to us today, such as the superseded parts of the Old Covenant.

Does the Bible say we are to shun an "ex-Christian?" I thought the Bible said there are no ex-Christians, once saved always saved, nothing can separate us from the love of God. As for tares, folks who profess they are Christians, but have not been spiritually born again by the will of God, we are not to shun them, but rather cultivate, plant and water so they might come to the knowledge of the Truth.

Since a discussion of homosexual behavior is not allowed on this forum, lets leave it with acknowledging that if the Bible is true, then homosexual behavior is sinful.

In summary, why do I follow the Bible - I try to follow the Bible because I believe it is true.
 
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PerrySB

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It is my belief the Bible gives us the most accurate portrayal of what God wants from His people. I’m one that has studied other religions including the new age movement and have come away believing the basic laws that God set down for us through the ten commandments and the Mosaic law are probably just about as accurate as anything else that is available to us today.
It is interesting that people that find fault with the Bible is generally because it is speaking against some sin that is part of their lives that they choose not to give up. So it is much easier to slander the messenger than submit to God’s will.
 
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Celticflower

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Because it is the only guide we have on how to follow God. We may not understand all of it, we may argue over what parts mean and which parts do/don't apply to this or that situation, but in the end, the Bible is the only place we have to look for answers about who God is and what He expects from us.
 
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Emmy

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Dear DarkProphet. The Bible is God speaking to Man. God gave us 10 Commandments, and they tell us what is right and what is not right, in fact the Commandments are God`s loving advice to us. When Jesus came He gave us 2 Commandments, they contain all what God told us, and if we follow them, we will have life abundantly, filled with Jesus` Love, Joy, and Peace. Jesus told a Lawyer, who had asked Him: " Master, which is the great Commandment in the Law? " Jesus said unto him: " thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great Commandment. And the second is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." Love is the all-meaning word. We love God because He made us in His image, He is Love, and we are the only beings in this world/Universe, who can think and reason, we know the difference between Love, and Not LOVE. Real love is always selfless and benevolent, without pain and wanting only our own gratification. We have Jesus to help and guide us, we have God who will forgive us every time we stumble or fail, Jesus told us in the prayer he taught us, : Give us today our daily bread, and forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us." Jesus is our Saviour, He died that we might live, He reconciled us to God. All we have to do now: Repent, exchange our selfish and unloving character INTO loving God with all our being, and loving each other as we love ourselves, i.e. treating all we know or meet, As we would like to be treated, with selfless love and no strings attached. Jesus is also THE WAY, He will lead us back to where we came from. I say this humbly and with love, DarkProphet. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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DarkProphet

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If a person believes the Bible is true, that it is the revelation of God, then to follow what God says in His word is tantamount to following God.

OK, then what leads you to believe that the Bible is true?

It is true that parts of the Bible are not relevant to us today, such as the superseded parts of the Old Covenant.

Except the parts that talk about homosexuality apparently.


If a person says that they are a Christian and TRULY believe they are a Christian then I, as a non-Christian, am to take their word for it. From that point of view then yes Christians SHUN ex-Christians and Christians I have asked about it have quoted the Bible to defend that action. I'm sure there is another interpretation but I'm more concerned about what Christians actually do then what they are supposed to do.

Since a discussion of homosexual behavior is not allowed on this forum, lets leave it with acknowledging that if the Bible is true, then homosexual behavior is sinful.

I'm still not clear on the definition of "sin" but I would agree that the Bible does not look favorably on homosexuality.

In summary, why do I follow the Bible - I try to follow the Bible because I believe it is true.

OK, but why?
 
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DarkProphet

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What do you mean "just about as accurate"?

It is interesting that people that find fault with the Bible is generally because it is speaking against some sin that is part of their lives that they choose not to give up. So it is much easier to slander the messenger than submit to God’s will.

I have found that it is easy for a Christian to incorporate any action into their view of Christianity. This means that "sin" is not a barrier because any action can be made "Christian", it's just a matter of joining the right church. With that said, there are MANY faults with the Bible.
 
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DarkProphet

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Suppose for a second that a person came up to you and he says that he wrote a book that was inspired by God. Would you count this new book as a source on God?
 
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DarkProphet

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Because its has the most circumstantial evidence that its from God. So, we better follow it. Go to: www.TheBibleProofBook.com and learn something.

That link is broken.

circumstantial evidence: evidence providing only a basis for inference about the fact in dispute

Meaning that there is no direct evidence in the Bible. Indeed if we nitpick on the definition of God and how the Bible is written then there is evidence that it's not from God.

In anycase you follow the Bible because you believe the circumstantial evidence is enough?
 
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Why follow the Bible?

Biblical Christians follow what the Bible says because it is God's word: all of its teachings were given by the inspiration of God, so that all of it is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly equipped to perform all good works (2 Timothy 3:16-17). It is only the Bible which is able to make humans wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ (2 Timothy 3:15, Romans 10:17, Acts 13:48, James 1:18, 1 Peter 1:23-25).

One of the prime aims of the devil is to get humans to reject God's word the Bible and start believing something else which sounds better to humans (Genesis 3, Matthew 16:21-23), usually something which allows humans to continue in their lusts (2 Timothy 4:2-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-2) and which appeals to the devilish pride of humans, wanting to be as important as God (Isaiah 14:12-15, 1 Timothy 3:6).

Suppose for a second that a person came up to you and he says that he wrote a book that was inspired by God. Would you count this new book as a source on God?

If a person came up to Biblical Christians today and said that he wrote a book that was inspired by God, they would have to check its teachings against what God's word the Bible already says (Acts 17:11) and make sure that it didn't contradict anything in the Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4). Also, even if if didn't contradict anything in the Bible, its teachings would still have to pass the test of Biblical Christians being able to (as it were) recognize the voice of Jesus Christ in what it was saying (John 10:27). Biblical Christians are able to recognize if something which is said is from Jesus Christ (John 10:4) or from "a stranger", and they will not follow the latter (John 10:5). Biblical Christians are able to do this because they have received God's own Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:11-13), Jesus Christ's own mind (1 Corinthians 2:16). Non-Christians reject the Bible because they do not have God's Spirit, they do not have Jesus Christ's mind, but only their own, natural minds, which can only see the things of God as foolishness (1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 1:18), because of the wholly-corrupt nature of all humans in their natural state (Romans 3:10-12).

In anycase you follow the Bible because you believe the circumstantial evidence is enough?

Biblical Christians follow the Bible not only because of the direct, spiritual evidence referred to above, but also because of the direct written evidence in the New Testament, where Jesus Christ himself confirms that all of the Old Testament is true (Matthew 5:17-18, Luke 24:44-48). And all of the New Testament was written by eyewitnesses of Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:16, 1 John 1:1-4, 1 Corinthians 9:1, John 19:35, John 21:24, Luke 24:48, Revelation 1:17-19) or their immediate followers (Luke 1:1-2, Hebrews 2:3). Also, no teaching in the Bible has ever been proven false. So there is no reason for any Christian to reject anything in the Bible.

Jesus says to Christians: "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31). Christians must be willing to die before they would deny any part of his word: "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels" (Mark 8:35-38).
 
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Van

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Hi Dark Prophet,

Why do I believe the Bible is true. I chose to trust in the truth of the Bible, rather than reject it as the work of men. We all deal with our limited knowledge of reality, and make choices based on what we believe to be the best course of action.

Can you provide a reference for those passages that supposedly support shunning an ex-Christian? Of course folks who say they are Christian treat others poorly, but to claim the behavior of some sinners reflects Christianity without Biblical support is outside sound argumentation.

Yes, since that part of the Old Covenant is included in the guidance of the New Testament for Christians to follow, that part (homosexual behavior) of the Old Covenant has not been superseded.

Yes, there are more definitions for "sin" than you can shake a stick at, but I like missing the mark, thinking and acting in a way that is not as pleasing to God as some other viable option. Folks sometimes like to draw a distinction between knowingly violating God's word - a transgression - and unknowingly violating God's desired behavior, but such distinctions are very much blurred in the Bible. In any event, doing something that you should know is wrong, like treating others differently than you treat yourself or your loved ones, is sin even for someone who has never heard of the God of the Bible. They will be judged based on what they knew.
 
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Celticflower

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Suppose for a second that a person came up to you and he says that he wrote a book that was inspired by God. Would you count this new book as a source on God?

I think that would depend, in part, on the message contained in his book. We are told to test all things. If this new writing did not line up with previous accepted writings, then no (which I why I do not follow the Book of Mormon). Also the individual in question's credibility would also come into play.
 
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DarkProphet

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How does that work? I know the gnostic writings were rejected as well as some others but on what grounds?


So someone can only understand the Bible after they already believe?


All that was a long time ago with little information on the credibility of the writers. On what basis do you trust these writers?

Also, no teaching in the Bible has ever been proven false. So there
is no reason for any Christian to reject anything in the Bible.

I don't know what you mean by "teaching" but there are false facts in the Bible.


What does it mean to deny part of his word? Because I've seen Christians ignore LARGE sections of the Bible that they don't agree with.
 
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DarkProphet

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Why do I believe the Bible is true. I chose to trust in the truth of the Bible, rather than reject it as the work of men. We all deal with our limited knowledge of reality, and make choices based on what we believe to be the best course of action.

Well, OK. Then personally why do you trust in the truth of the Bible?


The argument was a combination of the "there are no ex-Christians" passages, the tares passage, and something Paul said about not letting habitual sinners into your church. This made it so that an ex-Christian was a liar and because of their long term unrepentant behavior they should not be part of the church. The net effect is the shunning of ex-Christians.

Yes, there are more definitions for "sin" than you can shake a stick at, but I like missing the mark, thinking and acting in a way that is not as pleasing to God as some other viable option.

At one point working on the Sabbath was punishable by death. Is that still unpleasing to God or did he change his mind?


Actually I thought they would be held accountable to the law even if they didn't know the law. Also knowing God's desired behaviour doesn't seem so clear cut because of the laws in Leviticus and God's actions with the Israelites seem to run counter with how Christians describe God.
 
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DarkProphet

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If you follow the Jewish line of thought then the New Testament didn't line up with the previous writings. And what of the credibility of the the ancient writers. It is one thing to know that John Smith wrote the Book of Mormon by sticking his head in a hat and then not being able to repeat it but how much do we really know about the Biblical writers?

What I'm getting at is that you follow the Bible because it is your source on God but why do you trust the Bible as such?
 
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Celticflower

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Faith, tradition, personal experiences, history
 
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Van

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Hi Dark Prophet,
Well, OK. Then personally why do you trust in the truth of the Bible? Asked ans answered. Next you will ask why I think trusting in the bible is the best course of action. After I answer that, you will ask why again rather than accept your question has been answered. Why???????

The argument was a combination of the "there are no ex-Christians" passages, the tares passage, and something Paul said about not letting habitual sinners into your church. This made it so that an ex-Christian was a liar and because of their long term unrepentant behavior they should not be part of the church. The net effect is the shunning of ex-Christians. There are no-ex-Christians has nothing to do with it. Ditto for tares.

However, you are quite correct that Christians are to treat unrepentant sinners as among the lost, i.e non-Christians. Note I said "non-Christians" not ex-Christians.

Keeping the Sabbath is part of the superseded Old Covenant. Now we are to "stretch out and rest upon Christ continuously."

You should re-read by answer on sin. Folks are not, repeat not, held accountable for violating the stated laws or rules of God that they are unaware of. There is no confusion about knowing how you want to be treated and treating others less generously.

The Law of Moses, the Old Covenant still has a purpose, to lead folks to Christ by teaching them they are sinners, and therefore in need of mercy.
At the end of the day, your assertion that Christianity says to shun ex-Christians is puffery.

A person who professes or has professed he or she has committed their life to Christ, yet whose faith is dead, i.e not accompanied by works worth of repentance, should be cultivated, lovingly shown the error of their ways, and provided with the witness of godly living rather than shunned.

How do you think each and every professing Christian, of which I am one, is to make their calling and election sure, i.e that they are spiritually born again?
 
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