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Why Evolution is Impossible part II

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29apples

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I will be giving more direct evidence that 'evolution' has not occured in nature, this time on the biological level.

You need to edit your opening sentence in your opening post of the thread. It seems to indicate that you are arguing using biological means instead of geology.

Your geology nonsense is a classic example of a red herring logical fallacy. You are arguing that evolution is false because of Noah's flood and geology. Evolution has nothing to do with geology or Noah's flood.

We are talking about uniformitarian principles of geology which are based on an evolutionary, long-age belief system.

This does not make any sense. How does this relate to biological evolution again? Once again, you should educate yourself on the theory of evolution. Just because something says "evolution" in the descriptive sense does not mean it is related to biological evolution. Some examples include chemical evolution, stellar evolution, oxygen evolution, sociocultural evolution, the mitsubishi lancer evolution, and pokémon evolution. These examples are not related to biological evolution.
 
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Calypsis4

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Best wishes.
 
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29apples

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Look, if the evidence that geologic evolution has NEVER occurred in nature then biological evolution is not supported by such a theory either. Why is that hard to grasp?
So are geologic evolution and ToE the same? Why would disproving our understanding of geologic evolution affect the ToE?

It makes terrific sense but you have been trained to reject the obvious.
Well could you please reiterate the obvious? I still fail to see the connection between changes in allele frequencies over time and geology.

I've been 'educating' myself on this subject for 45 yrs and taught science for 26 yrs. Does that tell you anything?

That is very good of you to give to the community. What sort of science did you teach? However I still think you don't understand the ToE based on your posts. I admit that it took a few formal classes in grad school before I fully understood it. Here are some of the big points.

It is defined as "a change in allele frequency in a population over time."
Organisms do not evolve, populations do.
Organisms are merely a vessel for their genes. Their genes do not care if their host dies, only that the genes get passed on.

I think you would have a bit more success in your arguments if you defined what you think "evolution" is. Could you please define "evolution theory" as you see it? The only hits from Google are referring to ToE, otherwise known as biological evolution.
 
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Assyrian

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Your position is in error. Evolution as interpreted by uniformitarian geology is a myth.
You really should learn how to use quotes Calypsis, because that is all I got of your post when I used the quote button. I will however copy all your points across manually.

Not sure what I am supposed to be avoiding here. I answered your claims further down my post. How is it avoiding the issue to point out how you highlighted one of the biggest problems for a global flood, the complete lack of global geological evidence?

Yet this formation is only found in the western USA. If you could point to the same formation extending across into Europe Africa or Asia, I am sure you would have. There were other similar features found in different places around the world, but they are unconnected to this one. They are sediments laid down at different times in different seas and uplifted and eroded separately. If the flood did cover the globe, what was there to stop the sediment bearing waters from washing around the entire planet and leaving a trail of sediment around the whole globe? The tides must have been fierce with no landmass to stop them. Yet the sediments all seem to have been bound in basins of shallow seas, and for some strange reason they give radiometric dates consistent with their different positions in the geological column rather than all dating back to one time which you should have if they were all laid down by the same flood. So the flood does not explain why the formations are limited geographically. Geology however does explain the formations and their geographic extent. It also explains how they could be eroded. You do not need massive forces to move a grain of sediment.

How hard is it to figure? The visible erosion is at the base of those plateus and we can measure the amount laid down since the flood. No matter how you cut it the amount won't extrapolate bacwards for millions of yrs.
How do you know what was laid down since the flood? You claim the flood was global, claim all the missing sediment was carried away by the flood without the slightest evidence, and claim the material at the base of the plateaus was laid down since. Why should geology be limited to extrapolating back the amount you claim was laid down by the flood? Especially when you are asking geology to explain the missing sediment ni between the cliffs, not just the bit left at the bottom. Geology follows the evidence not some hybrid mixture of geological evidence and your claims about post flood erosion.

So you've got Noah's flood or you've got nothing. The Lord made it obvious...both in HIs word and by visual observation. But people who are brainwashed with evolution don't care.
Well the bible says nothing about the flood being global and the geological evidence observed doesn't fit a global flood either. I have the bible and the wonderful world God created we are learning more and more about through science. Hardly 'nothing'.

"And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth: and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered." Genesis 7:19.

But apparently you don't believe what Moses said, do you? That's called 'unbelief'.
I don't believe your interpretation. That is called not being entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Does that verse mean all the high hills on the whole planet were covered, or could erets simply mean the land Noah lived in, not planet earth? In fact erets is usually translated land not earth. Claiming this has to refer to the whole planet ignores how the word is actually used in the OT. And under the whole heaven was used to mean from horizon to horizon, or as far as you can see in Deut 2:25 This day I will begin to put the dread and fear of you on the peoples who are under the whole heaven, who shall hear the report of you and shall tremble and be in anguish because of you.' This was Moses whom you accuse me of not believing who said this. It was the Canaanites, Edomites and Moabites who trembled in fear at the approaching Israelites, not the Navajo living in caves in rock formation we have been looking at. Under the whole heaven didn't refer to the Navajo being terrified of the Israelites in Deut 2:25 nor is there any reason to think it meant their land being covered by a global flood in Gen 7:19.

And you have lived long enough to observe that 'FACT', right? Tell the readers. What we do know is that by present erosion rates we don't get millions of yrs for the erosion that is visible. There is nothing you can do about it.
You are the one who claimed that erosion material at the bottom of the cliffs could take place in the few thousand years since the flood. You need a much faster rate of erosion than geology. Try to deal with my answer rather than the yah boo you weren't there. You weren't their either. Your claim was geology could not deal with the missing sediment between the cliffs, not just the bits left at the base. And geology can deal with the missing sediment with a rate of erosion much lower than you need to explain the material left at the base.

Mocking? I was showing the glaring hole in your argument. And your claim about the erosion material at the bottom of Arizona cliffs all being deposited after the flood is your wild speculation. Do not mistake your opinions for God's word. The bible teaches creation, not creationism, that is mix of human interpretation of the bible and bad science, it is not the word of God either.

You aren't even attempting to think this through clearly. It is not so much WHERE, but WHAT was powerful enough to transport over 98% of the erosion that is no longer visible to the observer.
Water and wind are. The same water and wind you think accounts for the eroded material at the bottom of the cliffs in a few thousand years.

No one doubts you can lay you hand on vast reams of creationist claims. You do it all the time. But we are looking at this particular claim here, and in it your argument is based on a confused mixture of creationism and geology. Of course geology will not work if you mix the science with creationism, but what you need to show is that geology itself doesn't work. You should try to separate your creationism from the geology and see if you can show geology itself cannot account for the missing sediment.
 
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Calypsis4

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29apples-So are geologic evolution and ToE the same? Why would disproving our understanding of geologic evolution affect the ToE?

What? Why would you even ask a thing like that? Evolution is on many levels; stellar, chemical, biological, geological, etc. They all stem from a belief that the forces of nature need no Creator nor an a priori cause to accomplish Darwinian change.

Well could you please reiterate the obvious? I still fail to see the connection between changes in allele frequencies over time and geology.

Your woefully inadequate definition of evolution is the reason why you are having such a hard time grasping the truth of this matter. Evolution is not merely the 'changes in allele frequencies' over time. Follow me closely now:

Definition:
Evolution: a process of continuous change from a lower, simpler, or worse to a higher more complex, or better state. A theory that the various types of animals and plants have their ORIGINS in other pre-existing types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations. Mirriam Webster Dictionary

theory in biology postulating that the various types of plants, animals, and other living things on Earth have their origin in other preexisting types and that the distinguishable differences are due to modifications in successive generations. Encyclopedia Britannica

"evolution Changes in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations. The gradual development of more complex organisms from simpler ones." (Walker, P.M.B., ed., "Cambridge Dictionary of Biology," [1989], Cambridge University Press: New York NY, 1990, Reprinted, pp.105-106. Emphasis original)

(1) The change in genetic composition of a population over successive generations, which may be caused by natural selection, inbreeding, hybridization, or mutation. (2) The sequence of events depicting the evolutionary development of a species or of a group of related organisms; phylogeny. Biologyonline.

Now, I have just quoted FOUR classic, well-known, well-used sources for the theory of evolution. Your overly simplistic definition is promoted by the Orwellian element of extremists within your own movement and you bought their lies hook, line, and sinker. It is like defining a 357 Chevrolet as 'an engine with four wheels'.

You are not only light yrs from me in the way we view the world you don't even have the classic Darwinian understanding that has been taught in classrooms for over a hundred yrs.

That is very good of you to give to the community. What sort of science did you teach? However I still think you don't understand the ToE based on your posts.

Baloney. I have watched this Orwellian development for over 40 yrs and I know exactly what it is and where it is going. It is confusing people such as yourself as to the actual reality of our world and its origins. If you won't accept the possibility that you were brainwashed as I once was then communication between us is going to be very difficult.

I admit that it took a few formal classes in grad school before I fully understood it. Here are some of the big points.

It is defined as "a change in allele frequency in a population over time."
Organisms do not evolve, populations do.

No, that definition is incomplete and therefore inadequate to describe what Darwin, Huxley, et al taught.

Organisms are merely a vessel for their genes. Their genes do not care if their host dies, only that the genes get passed on.

I think you would have a bit more success in your arguments if you defined what you think "evolution" is. Could you please define "evolution theory" as you see it?

You are the one who is losing this debate. I am having success in my arguments because honest readers who are not emotionally committed to error will see the truth of what I've said very easily. There will be a lot more.

The only hits from Google are referring to ToE, otherwise known as biological evolution.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Stellar evolution is seen here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_evolution[/quote]

Chemical evolution is see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_evolution

Uniformitarian evolution (geological) is seen here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformitarianism_(science)

This is because you were poorly trained. Your professors were not honest with you.

Nonetheless, best wishes.
 
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Calypsis4

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There is much more evidence coming.
 
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Calypsis4

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More evidence that both Moses and Jesus taught the truth about a world-wide catastrophic flood that destroyed the entire world.



A fossil fish that was fossilized in the act of eating its lunch! Did this creature die and get slowly covered over by sediment (in water?) or was it fossilized possibly by volcanic activity during a great cataclysm? The point: there are many like this from all over the world:



And here is another...



Multiplied millions of animals of all kinds were crushed together in the Green River Formation alone:





And so are we to believe that all those organisms just suddenly decided to migrate to the same location and all of them died at the same time only to get slowly 'fossilized' in succeeding years? Right!

Here is a fish that was fossilized in the act of birth. This kind of evidence tell us that the organism was crushed suddenly and instantly fossilzed.



There is so much of this available in the fossil record that evolution simply cannot account for. The London Natural History Museum alone has catalogued 40 million fossils in its archives. But there are so many billions more yet unearthed from ALL parts of the earth. That fact alone speaks loudly of a great destruction; a cataclysm of world wide significance.

I was challenged earlier to provide evidence of massive land movements like is suggested in the pictures I posted of the American west. No problem.

First, North Africa:




Secondly, Asia in the Gobi desert area:




And then the Australian outback:




These kind of features revealing massive sections of land that was transported by a very powerful force are found on every continent except Antarctica. No 'local-erosion on a slow and gradual scale' will suffice to explain how billions of tons of cubic ft of rock and dirt were transported over great distances.

All this in answer to ASSYRIAN's statement: "Yet this formation is only found in the western USA."

Obviously, he didn't tell the truth.

The evidence for the flood of Genesis is not just out there it is phenomenal.
 
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Mallon

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You would do well to quit this discussion because you are losing this debate miserably.
Not in the minds of those of us with an education in biology and geology who know better. Your arguments are just silly and demonstrate a deplorable understanding of these fields.
 
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Calypsis4

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An answer to Assyrian in post # 84

I quoted: "And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth: and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered." Genesis 7:19.

But apparently you don't believe what Moses said, do you? That's called 'unbelief'.
Assyrian replied, "I don't believe your interpretation."

Observe, dear readers, I did not INTERPRET the scriptures I merely quoted them.

This proves that it is the SCRIPTURES that Assyrain disagrees with and not just me.
 
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Calypsis4

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Not in the minds of those of us with an education in biology and geology who know better. Your arguments are just silly and demonstrate a deplorable understanding of these fields.

I was blessed by your absence.

Are you going to start in telling your fairy tales again?
 
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Mallon

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So says the 27 yr old who has a lot to learn to the 58 yr old ex-evolutionist who has been on both sides of the issue and has studied the issues for longer than he has been alive.
I honestly doubt you've studied any of these issues at the university level and have published peer-reviewed articles on the subject.
(By the way, I've been on both sides of the issue, too.)
 
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pgp_protector

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In God's eyes and every honest person who is reading this debate.

God's word does not teach evolution.

It doesn't teach using computers either, you better stop using them.
 
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Mallon

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2. You haven't figured it out yet, kid. I'm not trying to convince the hard heads who are so brainwashed they can't think straight. Figure it out.
It doesn't take a hard-headed person to realize that your arguments are silly. Honestly, we see mass death assemblages being formed all over the world today. You don't need to appeal to a global flood to account for them. Ditto your fish fossil examples -- they choke on their lunch all the time.
 
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