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Why doesnt creationism need any data?

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Greg1234

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I don't see the point in your verse. It agrees with the poster about how we should put childish things away.

Saying the childish ways of the past are the way of today, well that wasn't a compelling statement.

You'll get it.
 
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Non sequitur

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You'll get it.

Ok, I get it.

We should have put the childish things away, a long time ago, but we didn't and they are unfortunately still here.

And materialists are manly.

Weird...
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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James Wilson

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USincognito asked: "James, did you miss this post? It's been up for two days and you haven't addressed a single bit of it."

I guess I was disappointed in the intellectual content of the debate. I made a sincere statement and the response came back, "You lied!"

I explained that because I'm a Christian and I believe that God calls us to be honest and without deception, I do not lie. The response came back, "You lied 3 times!" (or 5 times... I didn't bother to restudy the post to make sure I got every single word right).

If you want a fresh target, try the last page of the thread, "The reason Creationists do not win debates" for the response I posted on August 20, 2011, 9:40 am. I think I won the debate (for now).
 
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AV1611VET

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it's much easier and more to the point just to say "You're a liar".
Should I say that to everyone who calls me a troll, Last Thursday, Omphalos, supertroll, freak in a freak storm, liar, OEC, YEC, and various epithets dealing with various degrees of mental stability?

Or should I give them the benefit of a doubt that they are serious, and that a lie carries the added weight of 'intending to deceive', and just consider the source?

You guys use a loose definition of "liar" and run it in the ground.
 
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SkyWriting

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I suppose the man of God should not be surprised that so many scoff at creationism when so many scoff just as readily at God's call to men to repent of their sins and live in holiness.

If there were a christian group to be admired by the secular population, I have yet to find it. Creationists are dedicated to the Christian message which every group understands a little bit differently.
 
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SkyWriting

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Many books talk about love, hate and authority.

What kind of accuracy do you mean?

I mean without being wrong.
I have read a lot of business and success books that cover general principals or "laws" that seem to apply to society at the time. I also read the ones 10 years old that the library is removing from the shelves. Many don't stand the test of time. The Bible covers every base without a single mistake.
 
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SkyWriting

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By leaving out the specifics of the complaint it's not a legitimate claim, and so is a lie of it's own.
 
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SkyWriting

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I guess I was disappointed in the intellectual content of the debate. I made a sincere statement and the response came back, "You lied!"

It's just a refusal to believe that people have a different worldview. Very common. Just yesterday somebody said that "Natural Selection" has produced some very sophisticated biological trait over and over again throughout time. I just shook my had and wondered if I could see her lab notes on that.
 
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SkyWriting

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The Creationist fantasy that all of science is a conspiracy against YECism is just that and has no basis in fact.

Not at all true. All of Science is 100% upfront about denial of the supernatural. It's an open Cabal. Not the kind in secret.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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If there were a christian group to be admired by the secular population, I have yet to find it. Creationists are dedicated to the Christian message which every group understands a little bit differently.

I watched a really cool 60 Minutes story on Mt. Athos recently. And I am so appreciative of my TE allies in the Crevo debate, I make it a point to avoid discussion of Apologetics.
Mount Athos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Could you link back to her post? I'd like to see if she was saying that natural selection was the "creative" force or the "shaping" force of evolution and whether you're not taking her statement out of context. Because natural selection, working on the raw materials mutations provide, has "produced some very sophisticated biological trait(s) over and over again througout time".

Not at all true. All of Science is 100% upfront about denial of the supernatural. It's an open Cabal. Not the kind in secret.

If you're going to quote me, please provide a link back. Pretty clever quoting me out of context so you could take a punch at a straw man.
1. I specifically was referring to people who believe the conspiracy theory that all of science is a cabal against YECism.
2. Science does not "deny" the supernatural, it simply cannot address it, which I'll explain in number 3.
2. All scientists are engaged in a cabal. It's called adhering to the scientific method. Every one of them - Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Ba'hai, etc. knows that including the supernatural means they'd have to throw out repeatablity and falsification, at which point they'd no longer be engaged in science, but metaphysics.

You don't have to like the scientific method, but don't act like it's some giant conspiracy theory that exists to deny your religious beliefs, especially YECism. That simply isn't true.
 
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SkyWriting

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I watched a really cool 60 Minutes story on Mt. Athos recently. And I am so appreciative of my TE allies in the Crevo debate, I make it a point to avoid discussion of Apologetics.
Mount Athos - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

OK.
???



All scientists are engaged in a cabal.
And as such, a conspiracy. Exactly my point.

Yes, specifically intended to deny religious beliefs.

I quote out of context just to get to a point. I encourage you to re-quote yourself back in context and show my "deception" and make me look bad, rather than imagining that I'm out to get you and cleverly pulling you out of context to win debate points.
 
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sfs

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Not at all true. All of Science is 100% upfront about denial of the supernatural. It's an open Cabal. Not the kind in secret.
All of science is 100% upfront about denial of the supernatural? It is? I must have missed the memo. And I've read and written a lot of scientific papers, and I don't recall a single one of them denying the supernatural.

Now it is true that we refuse to invoke the supernatural as a scientific explanation for anything, but that's quite a different matter.
 
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SkyWriting

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I'll take that as confirmation of my statement.
Here's a hair you may split. _____________
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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Sorry, are you so caught up in your own straw man version of atheists that you missed where I linked Christian group I admired? And I also mentioned TEs, I supposed I could have named some of them specifically as I do often as well - Ken Miller, Francis Collins, Douglas Theobald, Mary Schweitzer, Bob Bakker, as well as CF members lucaspa, Mallon, sfs, Kerr Metric, etc.

Your "point" about Christians being admired by the "secular population" is invalidated by my example alone.

And as such, a conspiracy. Exactly my point.

Oh brother. You twist my words around and still fail to make your point. The fact that methodological naturalism isn't just a part of science, but it's the only thing that makes it work better than metaphysics, is an understanding shared by all scientists. If the supernatural fit into the error bar, wouldn't it have been included?

I quote out of context just to get to a point.{snip}

That's called intellectual dishonesty, quote mining and is the logical fallacy of a straw man. If you think that "get(s) to a point", good for you. Just don't expect the honest reader to take your comments seriously.


And irony meters all over CFville explode...
 
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James Wilson

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James Wilson wrote: When is a scientific argument won by "You're a liar!"

girne responded: "No arguments are ever won by "You're a liar" however, what else can be said to a person who is telling lies? You can wrap "You're a liar" in really nice words and make them sound really nice but if the outcome is that the person still thinks you are saying "You're a liar" then what's the point? it's much easier and more to the point just to say "You're a liar". If the person happens to be a creationist then saying "You're a liar" is not really necessary as denying, twisting and altering the truth are part and parcel of being a creationist."

Now let me make sure I understand you (after all, one of the reasons for having forums where people of diverse beliefs talk is to have a meeting of the minds). Are you saying it's just creationists who lie by default, or does it include anyone who mixes science with religion?

Because if it's the second, take a look at these paraphrases of famous quotes:

"If you're stumped, figure how you would have done it if you were God and see if He did it that way."

"God does not play dice with the universe" (this was his response to many confrontations with Heisenberg and his new Uncertainty Theory. The actual quote is several sentence longer and much harder to dredge out of memory. This is the commonly agreed on paraphrase of his longer quote).

The mystery man? Dr. Albert Einstein. Did he lie everytime he opened his mouth?
 
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