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Why does the church allow pluralism?

tall73

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Most folks admit that there is a theological divide on this forum, and that it reflects a divide in the church.

It raises the question of why the church allows this divide to continue? A recent thread about Tom Norris reminded me of a paper that Norris wrote in response to an administrator's proposal on how to deal with conflict and dropouts in the church. According to Norris one of the elements of the plan by this administrator--which was supposedly accepted--was to encourage allowance of diverse views. In other words, church sanctioned pluralism became one way to deal with theological controversy. Here is Noris' statement:

The number [of dropouts] that you speak about is based on Monte Sahlin's 1988 study, "The Dropout Problem in the Adventist Church in North America," NAD Church Ministries Reports. This was an internal and private report that stunned the leaders. But it was a correct study, which essentially showed the devastation from Glacier View, as well as the awful bookkeeping in the local churches.

In the late 1980's, because of my research in the White Estate, the NAD shared this study with me, and also an unpublished article that represented the new direction that the church was planning to take. So I met with Monte and Bob Dale, and others to give them my views about how the church should move forward to address this crisis. They all knew that Glacier View and the Walter Rea book had devastated the church and they also knew they had to mitigate the damage and stop the hemorrhage.

My views were presented in 1989 in a private paper entitled: ADVENTISM IN CRISIS. It was actually a detailed response to the proposed direction of Pluralism that was being promoted by Ralph Martin, President of the Potomac Conference. I took the position that the church should tell the truth and embrace major Reform, but the leaders choose another course that has proven disastrous for Adventism.

http://www.btinternet.com/~fountain/sda/adventism_in_crisis.html



So here is the question. Did the church knowingly promote acceptance of pluralism during the years following the Ford and Rea crises? Is it the plan of the church leadership to allow very divergent views? Why does the church not regularly purge members who do not subscribe to the 28? Why do they only at times purge pastors who do not?

Is this something both sides should be upset about? Progessives tend to want reform of SDA fundamentals. Traditionals tend to want a more strict approach to promoting adherence to the 28. Did the administrators just take the middle road approach allowing both sides to duke it out but making no real change in order to avoid a split?
 

StormyOne

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I think they took the middle of the road hoping that either side would not become too strong or too vocal... the problem of course is that as people study and begin questioning the contradictory teachings some people become uncomfortable, want to maintain the status quo, and thus the battle begins...
 
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AndrewK788

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Saying a church promotes pluralism can be deceptive. Naturally, as long as one's beliefs are within certain invisibile boundaries everything should theoretically remain peaceful, even if you don't agree with every note of doctrine.

I think the biggest divide in this forum is that the progs see the SDA church as needing reformed and the trads see reform as being compromising belief. The progs see the trads as legalistic, tradition-rooted sticklers. On the other hand, the trads see the progs as new age fanatics trying to take the Truth out of God's chosen church! (not trying to offend either party, but that's just a rough summary of how I see it and probably not accurate)

The biggest conflict is that both parties call themselves SDAs. The fact is we have 2 disctinct groups of believers here with 2 distinct ideologies. The conflict (I think) is over the name more than anything.

Because it certainly doesn't take a Doctor of Divinity to see there is a distinct division in beliefs.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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here are al list of the area of common agreement?


1. sabbath
2. state of the dead
3. second coming
4. historiscist interpation of prophecy

there are differing views as to the meaning and scope of things. How important, but these are the minimum ties that bind. cut any of thise and you become something else.
 
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AndrewK788

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Well, except for the second coming, I've heard self-proclaimed SDAs argue against the other 3 points.
 
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EGW

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Never saw a church obey this one:
"Obedience to fashion is pervading our Seventh-day Adventist churches and is doing more than any other power to separate our people from God. I have been shown that our church rules are very deficient. All exhibitions of pride in dress, which is forbidden in the word of God, should be sufficient reason for church discipline." Testimonies for the Church Volume Four (1876-1881), page 647, paragraph 2
 
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AndrewK788

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And we wonder why SDAs are accused of being legalistic. I agree that dress has become a great stumbling block for many, but I would say that it is inappropriate for a church to deem what is or is not wrong (within reason).
 
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Avonia

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Why does the church not regularly purge members who do not subscribe to the 28? Why do they only at times purge pastors who do not?

A different question would be this. What essential nature of the SDA church is attractive? What and who has resonance with us and why? What is moving IN toward us?

The end of purging is the last one of two people standing after the final purge. The remnant.
 
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Jimlarmore

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A church is a family of sorts with many different philosophies. Pluralism is a natural reality of society in general and reflects the diversity of cultures and demographics. Sentient beings are given the gift of free choice by their creator. Truth is interpreted by all in various ways and may not be all alike . So goes it in this world. God will judge who is faithful and just in the end and deserving of eternal life. May we all be there is my prayer.

God Bless
Jim Larmore
 
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EGW

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No one is worthy of eternal life. It is Jesus that is worthy and with his blood upon us we are made worthy.
Luke 20:34-36

34And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
 
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Bourbaki

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So here is the question. Did the church knowingly promote acceptance of pluralism during the years following the Ford and Rea crises? Is it the plan of the church leadership to allow very divergent views?
When you were an Adventist pastor, you were willing to accept the spiritualism of A. Graham Maxwell, with the excuse that it has tremendous support from the writings of Ellen G. White. You also agreed to be silent about church sanctioned abuse and popery.

I think that you should first explain your own tacit approval of very divergent views when you were an Adventist pastor before you call on the whole Adventist church to defend their divergent policies.
 
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tall73

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I mentioned before to you Eugene that I was not into Maxwell at all and have not read his materials. Nor had I heard of your case of popery in the church. I know you want to think that every church leader in the denomination was in on a conspiracy but it just wasn't so.
 
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Bourbaki

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I was not into Maxwell at all and have not read his materials.

“If a brother is teaching error, those who are in responsible positions ought to know it; and if he is teaching truth, they ought to take their stand at his side. We should all know what is being taught among us; for if it is truth, we need it. We are all under obligation to God to know what He sends us.” Ellen G. White, Counsels to Writers and Editors, p. 43.

From your posts at http://everythingimportant.org/SDA, it seems that you were aware of the moral influence heresy in the church when you were a pastor and that you gave your own testimony against Maxwell:

http://everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=996
http://everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewtopic.php?p=3613#p3613

You obviously knew about this heresy in 2005 but were “not willing to take a bold and unyielding stand for the truth and to sacrifice for God and His cause.” EW 50. Now you've been shaken out and you don't believe that there is any connection?


Nor had I heard of your case of popery in the church.

You have a total of 96 posts at http://everythingimportant.org/SDA/ and you’re telling me that you never noticed the agenda and unique gospel of that Reformed-minded Seventh-day Adventist forum?

I know you want to think that every church leader in the denomination was in on a conspiracy but it just wasn't so.

Does Satan have to literally appear before you and tempt you to exchange your soul for the world? I think not. Through cowardice, you can explicitly obey Satan’s will by just following your own natural impulses.
 
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tall73

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You already said the moral influence doctrine was not what you were talking about in another thread. And I did say I was aware of the moral influence theory. In fact the statement you quote me in shows that I was aware of the moral influence theory and was surprised it was as common as it was. I did not support it in any way.

As to your popery thing, I read your testimony. And I I thought they should not have kicked you out. But then I had nothing to do with that, and it was history by the time I heard of it.

Again, not every pastor was in on you getting kicked out of your church. Nor were we in on a plot to promote spiritualism. And I already mentioned I argued against the moral influence theory that I was aware of, and the extreme view of it that led to the idea that God does not kill in my district. Some it even led to universalism, and I likewise objected to that and counseled them against it.

So again you are confusing issues. I took a stand for what I was aware of in the area I had influence in.

You will also note that the very quotes you point to note that I DO NOT know Maxwell personally, nor was I familiar with him.

You try to make every topic about YOUR ISSUE and your experience in your local church. Perhaps you should go try to deal with those who kicked you out instead of all those who had never heard of it until after the fact, and couldn't do anything about it if they did know about it. That might be more productive than trying to accuse others of promoting this concept you have of Maxwell's spiritualism that you discovered while reading a new age book that you say was written by a channeled demon.
 
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