Why does God not stop the evil?

seeking Christ said:

When you pose as asking a question but really only want to make the accusation of genocide, who do you think you're fooling? That's transparent, abusive, and inherently dishonest. Give it a rest.

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All I asked was what had the children done to deserve destruction and what would you do if you were present at the time. After several pages of stalling you're still unable to say anything that resembles a straight answer.

Elioenai26 said:

I find it funny that you, an ethical SUBJECTIVIST keep talking about the killing of children as if it is something that is wrong even if some think it is right.

This, I simply cannot stop smiling at.

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It's easier to make fun of something than it is to understand it, I guess.

Elioenai26 said:

So genocide is objectively wrong?

Is this your view?

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You just don't get it, do you....

If it's my view that Genocide is wrong, that by necessity is a subjective view. My opinion is completely irrelevant when it comes to objectivity, therefore you can not tie the two together.

What will it take for this concept to sink in? Just because we think something really bad was bad, that can not be tied to objectivity. It's a non sequitur.

seeking Christ said:

I'm just not up for engaging this foolishness. You're not looking to understand anything, you just want to come on a Christian website to bash Christians. You think we need to tolerate that why?

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We aren't here to bash Christians, we are here to question the religion and get answers from the Christians as to how certain things in the Bible that simply don't add up to us can be justified.

In short, there is a point for us to be here. We can learn something new by questioning something that does not make sense to us.

On the flip side, I have no idea why you are here. It seems like all you are doing is coming here to not engage in the conversation, and violate your own scripture (See 1 Peter 3:15).

Your refusal to answer our questions is a demonstration that you clearly do not understand what is in your own holy book.

seeking Christ said:

Sincere people don't use euphemisms. You're not here to understand anything, but merely to bash.

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The act of questioning is by definition an exercise in trying to gain understanding.

On the flip side, you have done absolutely nothing in this thread apart from evade questions asked of you, and bash people yourself. You're being extraordinarily hypocritical, and a poor reflection on your own faith.

seeking Christ said:

When you pose as asking a question but really only want to make the accusation of genocide, who do you think you're fooling? That's transparent, abusive, and inherently dishonest. Give it a rest.

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In what world does the mass murder of everyone in a particular city not qualify as genocide?

Archaeopteryx said:

A litany of excuses, but no answers...

raze? Is that you?

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I wondered too if Ray were back.

Tinker Grey said:

I wondered too if Ray were back.

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That's my bet too...

Dave Ellis said:

You just don't get it, do you....

If it's my view that Genocide is wrong, that by necessity is a subjective view. My opinion is completely irrelevant when it comes to objectivity, therefore you can not tie the two together.

What will it take for this concept to sink in? Just because we think something really bad was bad, that can not be tied to objectivity. It's a non sequitur.

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Of course it is your view. You're stating it. I.never said it was not your view. Every statement we make is our own.

So tell me, is the earth round?

Dave Ellis said:

In what world does the mass murder of everyone in a particular city not qualify as genocide?

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I am going to speak as a moral relativist / ethical subjectivist for a moment and ask to discuss some thing's with you to see what your views are is it okay?

Good... now...

The view that you have that genocide is wrong, is just one of several opinions on genocide isn't that correct?

Archaeopteryx said:

Why? Earlier you admitted that subjectivists can make moral claims. Are you disagreeing with yourself again?

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Of course not.

Im simply stating that when you hold the view that genocide is wrong even if the Nazis thought it was right, then you are saying that there opinion does not matter. You are saying that genocide is not right just because they thought it was, but that it was wrong even if an entire society thought it was right good and acceptable.

when you speak from this view you are saying that opinions don't actually determine what is morally right and what is morally wrong or what is acceptable and what is not acceptable what is moral and what is immoral you're also saying that a society does not determine what is right and what is wrong what is moral or what is immoral.

It is the same exact thing as saying that the earth is round. Individuals do not determine whether or not the earth is round by saying the earth is round nor do they determine that the earth is not round by saying that the earth is not round. Their opinion regarding the shape of the earth simply does not matter or have 1 way or another an effect on the actual shape of the earth. it is the same thing as saying even if an elementary school child thinks that the earth is flat because all they can see when they walk outside is flat land the earth is not flat because the child thinks that it is flat or is of the opinion that is flat. we would say that the child was wrong in saying that the earth was flat because the shape of the earth is not determined by the opinion of the child or the opinion of an adult or the general consensus of a society. we are rational reasonable and right to maintain that the earth is round even if Russia or China thought the earth was not round. likewise we are rational and reasonable to maintain that genocide is wrong even if some societies think the genocide is right or some individuals think that genocide is right or even if Germany, Russia, and China thought that genocide was right it would be wrong because genocide's being wrong is not determined by general consensus of society or an individual's opinion genocide is WRONG OBJECTIVELY.

When a judge sentences a child molester to prison and tells the molester that molesting children is wrong, the child molester can say: " well your honor, that's your opinion" all he wants to. the judge is basing his sentence on the view that child molestation is objectively wrong.

Now, if you are having trouble understanding this, that is not a good argument for moral relativism. Nor is it a good argument against moral objectivism. It is simply evidence that you are having a hard time understanding simple philosophical precepts and definitions.

The two truth bearers: "genocide is objectively wrong" and "the earth is round" are true in virtue of their correspondence to an actual state of affairs that obtain in the real world, not a person's opinion.

What exactly is so hard for you to understand about this?

Tinker Grey said:

I wondered too if Ray were back.

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Dave Ellis said:

That's my bet too...

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Although, SC seems more vituperative.

Archaeopteryx said:

All I asked was what had the children done to deserve destruction and what would you do if you were present at the time. After several pages of stalling you're still unable to say anything that resembles a straight answer.

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I have pointed out to you why your basic question is not germaine, and attempts to force Scripture to be what it is not. If that level of thinking is too high for you, this issue will forever be out of your reach.

The more basic aspects here haven't been grasped, so going on to the more complex issue of why children are depicted as being slaughtered in some stories would be not only premature but impossible; besides, you haven't told me what you know about why God sent the flood, so there's no expedient way to cover the prerequisite info there.

All you want to do is accuse "genocide" anyway. There is no semblance of intelligible conversation, nor even civility. If you think you're going to get answers like that you're sorely mistaken.

Elioenai26 said:

Of course it is your view. You're stating it. I.never said it was not your view. Every statement we make is our own.

So tell me, is the earth round?

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A better description would be that the earth is roughly spherical, but sure, we can say round.

However, again, my opinion that the earth is round is irrelevant to the fact that it is. It is demonstrable that the earth is round with evidence completely independent of opinion.

How do you demonstrate morality independent of opinion in a similar sense?

Elioenai26 said:

I am going to speak as a moral relativist / ethical subjectivist for a moment and ask to discuss some thing's with you to see what your views are is it okay?

Good... now...

The view that you have that genocide is wrong, is just one of several opinions on genocide isn't that correct?

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If you are implying that there are people in the world that believe Genocide is good under certain circumstances, you are correct.

For example, the ancient Isrealites and their God. In fact, many modern Christians are fully in favour of it too.

Dave Ellis said:

We aren't here to bash Christians, we are here to question the religion and get answers from the Christians as to how certain things in the Bible that simply don't add up to us can be justified.

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If that were true in your case, why would you attempt to broach the subject of Christ's Passion in this thread? And why when I point out to you that it couldn't possibly have been a human sacrifice, do you create the strawman of saying I just disposed the major tenets of the Christian faith and list out a bunch of things I most certainly did not say?

And then when I snip out your post and specifically label the strawman for you why do you deny it?

No, I will not engage foolishness like that. If you're not smarter than that there's no use trying to communicate, but I'm certain you know better: just add sincerity.

Dave Ellis said:

In short, there is a point for us to be here. We can learn something new by questioning something that does not make sense to us.

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Sounds good to me! Try it sometime, w/o all the added garbage.

Dave Ellis said:

Your refusal to answer our questions is a demonstration that you clearly do not understand what is in your own holy book.

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It is a demonstration of aspects of it you do not know. (Or rather, pretend not to know. I'm quite sure you see the problem on your end, and why that should indeed make me unwilling to give you precious things until you straighten out and fly right)

Dave Ellis said:

In what world does the mass murder of everyone in a particular city not qualify as genocide?

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You're good at barging in to the middle of a thread and asking things that have been repeated, making no attempt to brush up on the context. This is not acting in good faith, and the need to see what the discussion has been should make you realize that trying to bring up other issues that are incredibly complex themselves (like Christ's Passion for example) doesn't help anything.

Your form of questioning would work just fine in the sub-forum Exploring Christianity, except you'd still need to leave out all the nonsense.

Tinker Grey said:

I wondered too if Ray were back.

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I'm Richard, the lion hearted. Try a little respect for that which is holy.

Dave Ellis said:

If you are implying that there are people in the world that believe Genocide is good under certain circumstances, you are correct.

For example, the ancient Isrealites and their God. In fact, many modern Christians are fully in favour of it too.

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FINALLY some relevance! Any person that is honest here will admit this is at least part of their underlying concern, and the rest of it has been periferal at best. Now what I want to know is where are all these supposed Christians
that are "fully in favor if genocide?" I've never met one, not a one, and I bet I've interacted closely with more Christians than most of you have even MET, combined.

Some of you here like to poke fun at conspiracy theorists, well - look in the mirror!? Yet I won't mock you for this weakness (nor am I *ahem* vituperative) but will meet sincerity with sincerity. If you can't bring that much, don't expect much in return.

seeking Christ said:

Not only is that false

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No, it is not. It is the theme of this thread, about a god that watches. And does nothing.

seeking Christ said:

but you really haven't been paying attention.

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Care to chime in on this thread?

seeking Christ said:

And why does my opinion matter?

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Do you think it does? Why do you post here?

seeking Christ said:

Is this some kind of a vote?

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No, it is an opportunity to demonstrate your knowledge of scripture.

seeking Christ said:

Do you suppose God prays to me?

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Then he would be truly desperate.

seeking Christ said:

I am now the judge of the living and the dead?

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Red herring. I am only asking about what you think is permissible.

seeking Christ said:

And what about Naomi?

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Confusing me with someone else?

So, what do you think? Did Dahlmer'shis actions as a serial killer preclude him from entering this theoretical heaven?