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Why does evolution not make sense to you?

Gath

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I'd actually say that the complexity of life can do some damage to the hypothesis of design. After all, a bit of complexity can be useful, but photosynthesis, for example, seems to be needlessly complicated. An intelligent designer could easily remove many steps of the process while preserving the function.
 
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MyLordMySavior

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Needlessly complicated? Remove many steps of the process? Like what? Even if you look at this from an evolutionary stand point, the reason it is still "around" and because plants use photosynthesis(whether it is C3, C4, or CAM) is because it is perfect. A very good example is the usage of glycolysis for cellular respiration. Organisms that are simple or organisms that are considered "old" that use processes like glycolysis prove it. Evolutionists would agree that if the majority of all organisms use glycolysis it is because it is perfect and therefore has been passed down thousands of years later. Glycolysis is just as complex as photosynthesis. If it wasn't perfect, then of course steps would have been cut out to preserve energy, but the fact that it hasn't prove that it is not "needlessly" complicated. An Intelligent Designer made these processes perfect, this is why the majority of living organisms use it.
 
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Carmella Prochaska

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I don't believe in the General Theory Of Evolution because:

- It claims that every living creature on Earth descended from a single common ancestor yet life cannot originate without intelligence. A minimal cell needs several hundred proteins. Even if every atom in the universe were an experiment with all the correct amino acids present for every possible molecular vibration in the supposed evolutionary age of the universe, not even one average-sized functional protein would form. The chances are beyond the law of probability at 1 in 10^40,000 as a generous estimate. In science, things beyond 1 in 10^50 are deemed impossible. I have never seen empirical evidence of chemical evolution without any intelligent input.

- The DNA code is a sophisticated language system with letters and words where the meaning of the words is unrelated to the chemical properties of the letters. Code systems are only developed by intelligent agents. DNA is useless unless it has the specific protein translation machinery which is itself encoded on DNA. There has been no empirical evidence of meaningful DNA code forming on it's own.

- Mutations are known for their destructive effects, including over 1,000 human diseases such as hemophilia. Rarely are they even helpful. The rare beneficial mutation has very minor effects & has never been shown to produce a novel functional feature in any lab experiments. Probably why experiments trying to evolve bacteria & fruit flies don't work.

- Natural selection decreases the information in the genome. It makes a creature more specific so that it can adapt to its environment, using the existing potential for variation. This is how speciation occurs & why we have degenerates like poodles & pugs coming from wolf ancestry. Natural selection is not a creative process.

- Every pathway and nano-machine requires multiple protein/enzyme components to work. How did lucky accidents create even one of the components, let alone 10 or 20 or 30 at the same time, often in a necessary programmed sequence.

- We've never seen any empirical evidence for cells learning to co-operate on their own to build up more complex creatures in the environment. You have to have apoptosis & a bunch of other systems in place for multicellularity to even exist.

- How do male & female sexual organs evolve simultaneously. Non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs. Just saying sex is advantageous does not explain the origin of these systems.

- Fossils should not be used as "transitional forms". No one can determine from bone whether a creature was ancestral to another. The coelacanth was thought to be a possible ancestor to tetrapods but now that it's alive in the oceans, we know that's not the case. If a chihuahua & a great dane were found in different strata we might contend that the chihuahua was ancestral to the great dane. We cannot even tell if a creature is mosaic like the platypus. Are humans transitions to something else?

- There's too much stasis in the fossil record.

- I have never seen 1 single example of upward evolution. I've only seen examples of adaptation, natural selection, speciation & variation.
 
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Chris Blanks

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I have never seen 1 single example of upward evolution. I've only seen examples of adaptation, natural selection, speciation & variation.[/COLOR][/FONT]
All of those things are integral to evolution. When working in coordination, they create a species or being that is better suited to environment around it. Humans don't need strength to survive in their environment, gorillas do. The common ancestor of gorillas, humans, and other apes lived in many places, each place required different skills to survive, so the different groups of the species evolved in different ways.
 
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NateDaGrimes

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sounds dumb considering the fact that even man were in age of dinos, if we to exist 6 billion years ago the whole earth and its sources be pretty off of its foundation.. its safe to say earth is created somewhat 6000-7000 years ago.

http://www.bible.ca/tracks/ryals-track.htm
that case we are to be in a new millenium then that would be thousands of milliniums toward jesus's time.
 
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Chris Blanks

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Anyone who believes that humans and dinosaurs walked side by side and that the earth was created within the last 10000 years deserves to be put in the deepest darkest hole on earth. So why don't you start walking?
 
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Gath

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I certainly would disagree with the idea that photosynthesis is necessarily the perfect way to produce energy. In fact, it's probably quite likely that there are other ways that are far more efficient. However, other methods didn't develop because it was far more unlikely for them to develop or because they required the organism to take a step backward, so to speak, which cannot happen in evolution.

I also think it's a bit presumptuous to imagine that everything that life uses is ''perfect." If evolution always led to perfection, then there wouldn't be any more evolution.
 
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NateDaGrimes

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Anyone who believes that humans and dinosaurs walked side by side and that the earth was created within the last 10000 years deserves to be put in the deepest darkest hole on earth. So why don't you start walking?


soo if there wasnt God, Those Tracks on the pics wouldnt be there, humanity will be nothing, animals will be nothing, just a dark nothing with nothing going to happen.

surely you cant believe the monkeys evolved into humans

if you dont believe the bible, then how did they find noahs ark and fossles on moutain tops,
 
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Chris Blanks

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Those tracks would be there, put there by dinosaurs and other ancient creatures. This universe as we know it was created completely by chance.

Actually humans evolved from ancient primates which are different from monkeys. Monkeys and ancient apes shared a common ancestor that existed 25 million years ago. Humans and the primates of today share an ancestor that existed 6 million years ago.

Noah's ark didn't exist, if anything those "remnants" were most likely an older ship that was either taken apart and used for shelter. The fossils were just simple fossils of animals indigenous to the area.

God has almost no chance of existing.
 
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MyLordMySavior

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1.) Quote me in which I said Photosynthesis is the perfect way to produce energy.
2.) Quote me in which I said evolution always leads to perfection.

3.) Quote me in which I said that everything that life uses is perfect.

You can't because I did not say that.

So, I assume you are proposing that there are far more efficient ways for photosynthesis, cellular respiration, DNA replication, and protein synthesis to work than what they already do?
 
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Gath

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1.) Quote me in which I said Photosynthesis is the perfect way to produce energy.

Ok.

the reason it is still "around" and because plants use photosynthesis is because it is perfect.


2.) Quote me in which I said evolution always leads to perfection.

You never explicitly stated it, but you strongly implied it when you said:

If it wasn't perfect, then of course steps would have been cut out to preserve energy

In other words, if something wasn't perfect evolution would act on it until it was perfect.

3.) Quote me in which I said that everything that life uses is perfect.

Sure thing:

An Intelligent Designer made these processes perfect

You can't because I did not say that.

I beg to differ.

So, I assume you are proposing that there are far more efficient ways for photosynthesis, cellular respiration, DNA replication, and protein synthesis to work than what they already do?

Not necessarily far more efficient, but I find it probable that there is a more efficient way to get the same effect.
 
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Girder of Loins

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Interesting thing I learned recently. Did you know that light is actually slowing down? According to some calculations, at 3000 BC, light could have been traveling at over 100 times the speed it is now. That would change a lot of things, especially the movement of time, and could allow a Young Earth Theory to hold some weight.
 
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Gath

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If life cannot originate without intelligence and intelligence cannot originate without life...

I would like to say that I find those probability numbers somewhat doubtful. However, the fact is that nobody knows exactly how life began. There are a few competing hypotheses, but it's important to remember that there is no scientific consensus for how life was created.

But you know what? It doesn't matter. Evolution can proceed regardless of why life is there-it only talks about what happens to life after it exists. The Catholic Church accepts a theistic view of evolution-if over 1 billion Christians can believe in both God creating life and evolution occurring, it's hard to say that their belief is invalid. What I'm trying to say is that the lack of a scientific theory for the origin of life isn't a reason to doubt evolution-it isn't concerned with evolution.


That really depends on your definition of a 'code system'. You could just as easily claim that chemical reactions do follow a set code despite not being created by an intelligent being. DNA is represented by alphabetical letters, but the amino acids aren't really creating words. They just form patterns which lead to a specific function.


So a mutation in bacteria to allow them to synthesize nylon as food is a relatively minor effect? I'd say the opposite.


Why does natural selection necessarily have to decrease information? A mutation could potential introduce new, beneficial information, and natural selection would select the new genome.

- Every pathway and nano-machine requires multiple protein/enzyme components to work. How did lucky accidents create even one of the components, let alone 10 or 20 or 30 at the same time, often in a necessary programmed sequence.

If they didn't occur then life wouldn't be able to exist. So chance and time are able to do the job there.

- We've never seen any empirical evidence for cells learning to co-operate on their own to build up more complex creatures in the environment. You have to have apoptosis & a bunch of other systems in place for multicellularity to even exist.

Experiments are currently being done in that area, and early results, such as that of a multicellular yeast, are promising.

- How do male & female sexual organs evolve simultaneously. Non-intelligent processes cannot plan for future coordination of male and female organs. Just saying sex is advantageous does not explain the origin of these systems.

Another very important question. Similarly to that of the origin of life, this one has several competing hypotheses. However, the answer to this question is that we don't know.


Humans may be a transition to something else-but we don't know yet. For example, if all of humanity dies in nuclear war, we probably won't be transition organisms.

Technically a coelacanth could be both a transition to tetrapods and a currently living organism-if it split into two distinct branches.

Even if we were to accept your claim that it's impossible to know if something is a transitional form, that's saying something completely different than that there are no tradition forms-so I don't really see how this goes against evolution.

- There's too much stasis in the fossil record.

How much development would you expect to see if evolution were true? It's hard to determine whether its 'too static' if we don't know our expectations.


- I have never seen 1 single example of upward evolution. I've only seen examples of adaptation, natural selection, speciation & variation.

I believe Chris Blanks dealt with this one.

In summary, I'd like to say that, while you have legitimate questions about the theory, they are currently being addressed. We don't know everything about evolution yet-but that fact alone isn't enough to doubt it. The fact is, there is enough evidence to know that evolution, broadly speaking, is true. Specifics may be uncertain, but we know the general process.


I find this rather doubtful. Source?
 
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Girder of Loins

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Chris Blanks

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Gath

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Here is the original article I read(if you want to gloss over it):

Speed of light slowing down?

And here is the original paper(if you want an in-depth look):

The Atomic Constants, Light, And Time

Well, I still find it rather doubtful. For one, Barry Setterfield has 'Genesis Science Research' on his homepage. While that certainly doesn't make him wrong, it shows that he has some level of bias. And WND, the site, is certainly biased.

Secondly, the findings themselves seem to fail to support a decreasing speed of light-recently, at least. It seems fairly convenient that the decay in the speed of light just stopped at the exact same time that the theory of its decay was propose. It forces us to rely on older scientific results. While we shouldn't dismiss them because they are old, it is impossible for us to check the experiments or to look for other sources of error. The results that Setterfield found in his paper are non-repeatable, which throws their validity into doubt.

The third reason is a quote from the article: "Setterfield, Dr. Tifft, Dr. Paul Davis, Dr. John Barrow and others have been subjected to peer review which borders on ridicule." To me, peer review which ridicules their findings doesn't suggest that their findings are correct but they are discriminated against by the majority of scientists-it suggests that their is something fundamentally wrong with those findings.

While it is a rather interesting claim, I feel that there just isn't enough going for it to prove its validity. The information comes from biased sources with non-repeatable findings that are not supported by the majority of scientists. True-that doesn't mean the findings are necessarily wrong. They may be right. But, for the time being, there isn't nearly enough evidence to convince me that they are true. It seems to me that the most likely answer is that the speed of light is a constant.
 
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Girder of Loins

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Obviously the article will be biased, so that is why I included the article. And I didn't mean to insinuate it was fact, but more as some food for thought. It would be quite a catastrophe to Newtonian physics if light wasn't a constant.
 
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