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I don't know. I can't claim there is or isn't one because that is arrogant. We do not know. I don't believe because I find it unlikely/no reason for a god.
I'm fairly surprised an intelligent and rational human has been tricked into believing intelligence came from un-intelligence and rationality from chaos. I'm surprised how seriously people take atheism.
The first thing is that there is nothing to prove god, or at the very least a specific god. So I don't see the point in embracing what appears to be little more than a fairytale or lie. This is some that leads to my rejection of faiths and religions in general. For Christianity specifically, the claims about god and his behavior in the bible, and the reality we live in, seem very counter to the claims of love and kindness, in other words contradictory.So why do you? What rational thoughts, or scientific breakthroughs, or personal experiences have taken God and thrown Him out the window of existence?
1. Evolution
2. The Big Bang
3. Lack of Evidence
4. Contradictions in the Bible
5. Occam's Razor (Why assume God exists when he doesn't have to?)
That is Abiogensis you're talking about, it has NOTHING to do with evolution. Evolution only states how creatures developed after whatever event that created the first one. So I wonder if you really understand it.Takes a lot of faith to believe you came from a rock
How did nothing explode?
Takes a lot of faith to believe you came from a rock
How did nothing explode?
The alternative (the two at the top of your list) remain highly improbable theories
If you told ten people to give an account of something they witnessed a week after they saw it; they would probably give you fairly accurate reports which would be different from the others while still portraying the truth.
Well if he didn't exist; assuming God is the reason for our existence, then you wouldn't exist now either.
So I wonder if you really understand it.
You're right, I don't really know anything about this other than the things I learned from Kent Hovind.
But than again my knowledge is surprisingly lacking.
Anyway sorry to cause offense to you guys. I've forgotten what it was like to debate with Atheists and although at one time I was able to do it quite effectively; I did find it was like metaphorically fighting a hydra; I don't have enough time or energy to reply to posts that are over a page long.
Don't feel like you were offensive. (to me at least) This place is called 'Christian Forums' for a reason, and I wouldn't be here if I didn't expect my beliefs to be attacked. In fact, that's why I'm here, so I can show other people why I think God is illogical and so that I can see if my reasoning holds up under questioning.
Would you be open to reading about some of my experiences with God; which doesn't involve me making something happen, but rather things happening around me because of something I have thought?
Sounds strange but I understand if you decline
I'd be happy to. I will warn you that it is likely that I will dismiss any personal experiences you have had that 'prove' God in your view as coincidences, but I will certainly be interested in hearing why you believe.
Well I'm glad that you will at least read them
About six months ago; around June last year I started searching for a new church because the one I had been attending for months had led me no-where as a Christian and I felt that the praise and worship was dead; so I looked for a church and I found one, but it was much further than Im accustomed to traveling.
During this period I was marveling a certain Christian drummer called Aaron Gillespie; anyway when I went to this certain church I still had notion of drumming in my heart and I really wanted to drum. The church probably had around a hundred or two hundred people inside the building so I thought it was unusual when the drummer walked over to me and invited me to come and play on the drums. To my understanding and knowledge I was the first person he asked. I thought it was cool that he said just the right things to make me feel comfortable behind the drum-kit because you can imagine playing a new instrument in front of an experienced person is a little daunting.
Anyway after that I played on the drums whenever I could; I went to a different church after that and I played on the drums almost every single time I could get the opportunity; which amounted to once a week for a period of time of thirty minutes to a couple of hours.
At a certain point down the line I asked God for a drum-kit because I really wanted one and I didnt have enough money to buy one. Anyway I didnt really communicate this to anyone and on Christmas my parents purchased me a drum a kit which was weird because they told me to ask for something small because they didnt have much money.
Please dont think I demand things from my parents; I find it almost impossible to ask them for things because I love them and I would rather them spend the money on themselves than on me.
The funny part is that a couple of the people in my church are convinced that Im the drummer that God wants to drum. I find it amazing and beautiful
Anyway I have a couple more stories; but this one is really beautiful to me.
That's actually pretty awesome. I will admit that, if that happened in the way you described it, and if I was you, I would be pretty inclined to believe in God.
Unfortunately, I have had no such experiences and therefore have nothing that really 'proves' to me that God exists. When you couple this with the fact that most religious people I meet reject scientific ideas that are, in both my view and the view of the scientific community, as true as gravity. And then you have people who are religious and hate homosexuals, favor limiting rights, and want to push their religion onto others in public schools...well, I'll say that I disagree with the average Christian on both matters of science and politics. So, my experience with Christianity has not been good, to say the least.
I understand where you are coming from; to be honest when I first approached the church I wasn't very impressed with the people and most of the time I didn't understand what they were saying. But the thing is I had a void in my life that needed filling because I was killing my self with all the rubbish I dumped into my soul; all the rubbish I watched, listened to and thought about.
It got so bad at one point that I almost killed myself. During that time; I said, "God if you're there, then stop this" within a couple of seconds my Mom appeared and she stopped me. Which was weird. I went through a huge period of self-loathing and hatred which was directed at others which God completely healed.
But the thing is; everyday I'm excited because I don't know what God is going to do. I'm happy now; which is amazing because I used to be very depressed and I feel peaceful all the time which is so good I can't describe. When I was younger I would have given anything for a moment of the peace I have now. it is amazing.
Don't let other people influence your decision about Christianity because if you look to people then they will always disappoint you.
Well, I was a Catholic at one point
I will say that I don't think I'm closing myself off from God
(assuming he exists) because I'm still trying to see whether something can convince me he exists,
(and I would much rather live in a universe with an awesome afterlife) but nothing has really stuck out so far.
I'd say that one reason I forgot to mention before is the supreme arrogance of religion (in my opinion.)
The universe is 26 billion light years wide...
think about that for a moment. That's huge. Huge to the point that no human can really comprehend how big it is.
A small statistic to help you understand-the distance from one end of the earth to the other is 5 quadrillionths of a percent of the the entire universe. In other words, 0.000.000.000.000.000.005%. That's how tiny the earth is, in comparison. And religious people really believe that everything in existence was created for humans-in other words, for that 5 quadrillionths of a percent? I'm sorry, but I find that very hard to believe.
However, I find it hard to believe that an 'all-loving' God would have killed people, as with the flood in the Bible.
If God helps you now though, by all means, believe.
I've never rejected God. But, at this point, I have rejected Christianity, nearly all of its doctrines, and the church establishment. It's all wrong. Considering the fact that the "holiest" days of the year in Christianity are based entirely upon Paganism
and the church has rejected the Law that God specifically said time and time again to never forget, I don't see any redeemable quality in the Christian church.
Granted, there are some truly caring people in the Christian faith whom actually do good in the world, so all is not lost.
However, I went to a private Lutheran high school, whence I met the meanest, most hateful, judgmental, shallow and evil people I have ever known. They all claimed to be Christians too, which made realize that it has become a surface lifestyle.
Go to church on Sunday (which isn't even the Biblical Sabbath day anyway, so that's wrong too.)
Due to this, and the fact I've actually read the Bible in its entirety as of late, I've realized that Christianity is not the way.
I hope you don't mind me interjecting here. It is true that Christmas is at the time of a pagan holiday, but I don't see why that is a problem. The point of Christmas is what is symbolises, exact dates don't matter. As you can see I don't have a Christian symbol, so I'm not massively biased on this.
Well it seems you haven't rejected the doctrine of inerrancy or infallibility of the Bible then? I would say there is your problem. Even if you think the Bible is infallible the Law is for the Jews.... there is freedom from the law in Christ.
True.
True, but there is a difference between cultural Christians and those who really believe. It is probably different in the UK because people only tend to come out as Christians if they actually believe. I remember as a kid I was scared to tell people I was a Christian. In America it is too easy.
And Jesus worked on the Sabbath. Is He guilty of breaking the Law? No, because I would say the Sabbath is only a means to an end, not an end in itself.
I also sadly doubt Christianity is the way, but with that I doubt any God. Christianity has great potential for amazing good and I think legalism is one of the big things that keeps people from love.
I went to a Catholic School; it never felt right to me.
Why are you looking to humans for an answer? If you want to see if God is real; read your Bible and then invite him into your life. You don't need a church for this.
Nothing will convince you; that's the truth.
Assuming the speed of light is a constant; Kent Kovind seems to think it is getting faster.
Then don't believe it; I don't believe the Bible says that either unless you can find a scripture to prove otherwise.
Oh, right. I forgot. Silly me. I thought all that 'thou shalt not kill' stuff was absolute. I mean, the Bible says it's fine to kill them if they're really really bad, right?Well if you read the Bible you will find that those people were murderers; the Bible says that there was not a moment where they did not think evils things and God was sorry that he made them.
Before the flood the Bible speaks how the sons of God (I presume that means the angels) found the daughters of men beautiful and they took them as their wives. As a result there were giants in those days.
I presume things were very messed up back then.Messed up by our standards, but commonplace at the time.
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