Why do YECs believe the universe is only about 6000 years old?

I understand what you are saying.

Like here in the USA a trillion is a trillion and in the UK a trillion is a billion I believe. But that isn't how YEC look at it.

BTW LOL I just have to say Einstein sucked at math heh.

Originally posted by seesaw
You don't understand I don't think the bible isn't true just the supernatural stuff (god and all the things that are impossible).

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You mean like the miracles and the healings? I see so many miracles and so many healings in the church I attend that it does not take a lot of faith for me to believe in the miracles. For people who do not see God move as much as I do, it maybe more difficult for them to have faith and believe.

Originally posted by seesaw
Yeah they both can be true, but not the way YEC believe they believe that everything the universe the world is 6000 yrs old and no 4.5 billion. And thats not what the evidence shows. 

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Actually, you link establishes it as being true all the more: "The find supports recent DNA evidence that modern Homo sapiens were not related to Neanderthal man, the professor said."

He added: "The traces we have found show a clean break between Neanderthal and modern man both in terms of culture and lifestyle. There is an abrupt change in the techniques of decoration and the use of flint and bone tools. Everything changes, in a radical, brutal fashion." 

There is clearly a distinction between the history of modern man and the history of the world. This is another blow for Darwin who tried to say that modern man evolved from prehistoric man.  Not only is science failing to find Darwin/s missing link, they are finding more and more that there is no link at all.

Originally posted by JohnR7
Actually, you link establishes it as being true all the more: "The find supports recent DNA evidence that modern Homo sapiens were not related to Neanderthal man, the professor said."

He added: "The traces we have found show a clean break between Neanderthal and modern man both in terms of culture and lifestyle. There is an abrupt change in the techniques of decoration and the use of flint and bone tools. Everything changes, in a radical, brutal fashion." 

There is clearly a distinction between the history of modern man and the history of the world. This is another blow for Darwin who tried to say that modern man evolved from prehistoric man.  Not only is science failing to find Darwin/s missing link, they are finding more and more that there is no link at all.

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I don't know what professor you are listening to but from what I have learned and read from credible sites there is real evidence for evolution, and the world being older than 6000 yrs old and that the cave paintings are aroudn 35-40,000 yrs old.

btw I didn't mean to make this post sound disrespectful.

But all I am trying to say is that all I have learned in school is that there is real evidence that supports the cave paintings being 35-40,000 years old. And that we did evolve from Neanderthals.

I respect what you are saying, but I believe and respect the evidence that science has found more. So until there is good evidence that says otherwise I will continue to say that the world isn't 6000 yrs old and the universe is billions of years old.

Originally posted by seesaw
I don't know what professor you are listening to but from what I have learned and read from credible sites there is real evidence for evolution,

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The "professor" was a direct quote from a link to a site that you provided. So somehow you just managed to disagree with yourself. You put your star witness on the stand and then you disagree with his testimony?

They have always told me that if you give someone enough rope, they will hang themselves with it. They will testify against themself and convict themselves.

Originally posted by andybell
Yes, if I can't believe in the first chapter of the bible the why keep on reading!

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But what if you have simply misunderstood it?

The Bible also says that a day to God might as well be 1,000 years, so the six days are likely not 24 hour periods.  Besides, why would God need even 6 days?  He could just create everything in one instant if He wanted to do so.

Originally posted by JohnR7
The "professor" was a direct quote from a link to a site that you provided. So somehow you just managed to disagree with yourself. You put your star witness on the stand and then you disagree with his testimony?

They have always told me that if you give someone enough rope, they will hang themselves with it. They will testify against themself and convict themselves.

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HUH. I was showing where it says that cave painting are 35-40,000 yrs old. I will reread that site. But I have been talking with you about this to long I am bored now so I quit. We can accept that we just disagree with each other.

Originally posted by seesaw
The modern humans first appear at around 35,000-40,000 years ago. So I still don't get the 6000 years thing.

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I think he is refering to the idea that God first put souls into homo sapiens 6000 years ago...

Originally posted by seesaw
I will continue to say that the world isn't 6000 yrs old and the universe is billions of years old.

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6000 years is the history of modern man, this is the genologys or the generations of man. That is different from "the days of old" or the creation of the "heaven and the earth".

Deut. 32:7
        "Remember the days of old,
        Consider the years of all generations.
        Ask your father, and he will inform you,
        Your elders, and they will tell you

The creation of the "heaven and the earth" was a totally seperate 6000 year period of time.  "The days of old" could have been a actualy 6000 years, or it could have been 16 billion years.  But as I have tried many times to show you, it was most likely both, depending on where you put your clock.

One example is if your clock were traveling at the speed of light or pure energy, then it took 0 years to create the universe. Because it has been shown at the speed of light time does not pass at all.  If you go by the spindown rate of the earth, then one day is equal to 4.32 billion years.

Here is what I was talking about.

Researchers have found images painted some 35,000 years ago - almost certainly the world's oldest cave paintings and possibly man's first artistic creations - in a hill near the north-eastern Italian city of Verona.

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And about the last part of the site I know some what, what he is talking about we know that when humans were on the earth there were 2 other version of man and I never said that humans evolved from Neanderthal man, I said they evolved.

Originally posted by JohnR7
6000 years is the history of modern man, this is the genologys or the generations of man. That is different from "the days of old" or the creation of the "heaven and the earth".

Deut. 32:7
        "Remember the days of old,
        Consider the years of all generations.
        Ask your father, and he will inform you,
        Your elders, and they will tell you

The creation of the "heaven and the earth" was a totally seperate 6000 year period of time.  "The days of old" could have been a actualy 6000 years, or it could have been 16 billion years.  But as I have tried many times to show you, it was most likely both, depending on where you put your clock.

One example is if your clock were traveling at the speed of light or pure energy, then it took 0 years to create the universe. Because it has been shown at the speed of light time does not pass at all.  If you go by the spindown rate of the earth, then one day is equal to 4.32 billion years.

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OK I understand what you mean. But the whole 6000 yrs is crazy. But that is just my opinion.

JohnR7, I pmed you please read it. thx.

The 6000 years is not crazy. it is the word of God.

Originally posted by Ford
The 6000 years is not crazy. it is the word of God.

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where in the bible does god say that.

First of all I have to commend and thank you Sinai for conducting yourself in a professional and friendly manner, not bashing the YECs but asking them to explain themselves so that you understand (or understand why they think so).

I haven't taken a stance to being a YEC or thinking that the earth is billions of years old which is the popular belief, it doesn't really matter, what can we do about it?. I used to believe whatever they told me in school and papers about science, fortunately I know better now. Well actually that is not fortunate because it is easier to follow the crowd than to think for yourself and stand by it. Anyway, I will explain why I think YECs believe that Earth is about 6000 years old, here goes...but first I feel there are a few arguments that I should rebute....

Not really sure, but there is cave writings that does back more than 6000 years old.

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Are you certain of this, is it a fact? What criteria needs to be met in your opinion if we are to call something "evidence", "fact" or even "scientificly proven". The father of a former girl friend of mine carved out a simple drawing on a big stone on the island where I live, I don't know why, as a prank or just for fun. It looked terribly like the old drawings of longboats of the Viking Era. Anyway, some people noticed it and alerted the media, scientists arrived at the scene and concluded that this was for sure viking artwork from the Viking Era (which is a 1000 years ago!). To this day it is still considered to be from the Viking Era. Scientists = fact and certainty, I think not.

How do you know? Were you there?

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-Hinting to creation as the Bible depicts it.You see, this argument doesn't help your case at all because I can apply it to disprove the scientific "fact" that says the world is billions of years old. How do you know? Were you there?. See, it works both ways. Now on to why YECs believe what they do:

It is all about priorities, should they believe the scientists that constantley prove themselves wrong, disagree widely and often have vague theories, or the Bible inspired by God and have stood the test of time and is IMO logical. Of course they would believe the latter (as do I and any christian), and if you read the Bible literally, earth was created in 6 days and man was created not long after (or so is how most people understand it, although JohnR7 mentions something about a gap), and then you just sum up the years of the generations to get a cr. number of years since creation. It is as easy as that I guess.

Edit: typo

Are you certain of this, is it a fact? What criteria needs to be met if we are to call something "evidence", "fact" or even "scientificly proven". The father of a former girl friend of mine carved out a simple drawing on a big stone on the island where I live, I don't know why, as a prank or just for fun. It looked terribly like the old drawings of longboats of the Viking Era. Anyway, some people noticed it and alerted the media, scientists arrived at the scene and concluded that this was for sure viking artwork from the Viking Era (which is a 1000 years ago!). To this day it is still considered to be from the Viking Era. Scientists = fact and certainty, I think not.

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There is dating evidence. And thats good enough. Well to me. Or until there is new evidnce.

There is dating evidence

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And I quote myself to reply,

What criteria needs to be met in your opinion if we are to call something "evidence", "fact" or even "scientificly proven".

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plus the little true story I posted that ridiculed scientific "fact".

And thats good enough. Well to me. Or until there is new evidnce.

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Listen to yourself, you believe that something is absolutely true until new evidence is discovered and then that is absolutely true. You "science buffs" must really have a strong faith in science (which is just ordinary men trying to find the solution/truth).

Originally posted by Homie
You "science buffs" must really have a strong faith in science (which is just ordinary men trying to find the solution/truth).

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Well thankfully those "ordinary men", through the pursuit of science, have been able to cure disease, feed the world, and vastly improve our standard of living. There is no need to have "faith" in science because there is abundant evidence (there's that word again) that it works.