Why do we even care?

JesusIsLord_ · Jan 17, 2018

Why do we even care so much about lesser doctrines? I mean, they are important, but not so much one should quarrel with others because of this, or that should divide us.

For example, the perpetual virginity of Mary, or her assumption to heaven. Or babies being baptized. Whatever, baptize the babies already, say hail Mary, whatever. It's pretty pointless. Or maybe we can agree to disagree, but it's a shame that Catholics and Protestants don't even go to the same church or take the same Eucharist because of little things like that. We don't call each other brothers/sisters over these things. It's pointless.

The only valid point i see for this is avoiding theological relativism, which i agree. But as long as it does not goes directly against biblical doctrine, it's pointless discussing.
But if everyone wants so much to be right, we could just agree to disagree and move on, still consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ, do the same things, unite over the same causes.

This fight has been going on for 500 years, everyone believes they're right. So why keep fighting?

Dave-W · Jan 17, 2018

JesusIsLord_ said:
This fight has been going on for 500 years, everyone believes they're right. So why keep fighting?

Actually it started 500 years earlier with the 1054 ad split of the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches.

Root of Jesse · Jan 17, 2018

JesusIsLord_ said:
Why do we even care so much about lesser doctrines? I mean, they are important, but not so much one should quarrel with others because of this, or that should divide us.

For example, the perpetual virginity of Mary, or her assumption to heaven. Or babies being baptized. Whatever, baptize the babies already, say hail Mary, whatever. It's pretty pointless. Or maybe we can agree to disagree, but it's a shame that Catholics and Protestants don't even go to the same church or take the same Eucharist because of little things like that. We don't call each other brothers/sisters over these things. It's pointless.

It's not pointless, or the Catholic Church wouldn't make it dogma. They're not little things.
What is a shame is that protestants held so little regard for those things that they chose to walk away from what they had.

The only valid point i see for this is avoiding theological relativism, which i agree. But as long as it does not goes directly against biblical doctrine, it's pointless discussing.

Amen.

But if everyone wants so much to be right, we could just agree to disagree and move on, still consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ, do the same things, unite over the same causes.

I don't bash protestants, and do consider them my brothers and sisters in Christ. As does the Catholic Church. We believe we have the whole Truth, and that protestants have part of the Truth.

This fight has been going on for 500 years, everyone believes they're right. So why keep fighting?

Yeah, I know. The only ones that bother me are those protestants who say Catholics aren't Christian. And those who don't really understand the Catholic point of view, but want to criticize it.

Root of Jesse · Jan 17, 2018

Dave-W said:
Actually it started 500 years earlier with the 1054 ad split of the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholic churches.

Actually, it started while Jesus still walked the earth, if you read John 6...

tampasteve · Jan 17, 2018

The problem is, it seems to me, that these issues are not as small as you might hope them to be. Let us take one that you mentioned: the Eucharist. We cannot come to a conclusive agreement between Protestants and Catholics because it is a MAJOR doctrinal disagreement. Is it really Jesus? Is it a memorial? Is it Jesus only during the service, or forever? Who can say the words of institution to make it Holy and transform into Jesus? Do we have it every week?
Or Baptism....
Is it needed? Can a baby that cannot make decisions really commit to the Christian life? Does it remit sins? Do you need another if you had one as a baby? Can you only get one in a lifetime?

It is a great idea for Christians to find common ground and relate in a more loving way to each other, but full communion is a while off, if ever. This is unfortunate, but it is the place we will be in until Messiah returns.

Halbhh · Jan 17, 2018

JesusIsLord_ said:
Why do we even care so much about lesser doctrines? I mean, they are important, but not so much one should quarrel with others because of this, or that should divide us.

For example, the perpetual virginity of Mary, or her assumption to heaven. Or babies being baptized. Whatever, baptize the babies already, say hail Mary, whatever. It's pretty pointless. Or maybe we can agree to disagree, but it's a shame that Catholics and Protestants don't even go to the same church or take the same Eucharist because of little things like that. We don't call each other brothers/sisters over these things. It's pointless.

The only valid point i see for this is avoiding theological relativism, which i agree. But as long as it does not goes directly against biblical doctrine, it's pointless discussing.
But if everyone wants so much to be right, we could just agree to disagree and move on, still consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ, do the same things, unite over the same causes.

This fight has been going on for 500 years, everyone believes they're right. So why keep fighting?

There were previous other splits and councils to reform practices and to establish the essential doctrines.

But in the 4th century the church was able to distill a Universal Creed, which is enough to say what is essential to being Christian:

I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
-----------

('catholic' means universal)
(the 'communion of saints' recognizes that those passed on are in Christ along with those of us still living, that we are in communion together)

Root of Jesse · Jan 17, 2018

tampasteve said:
The problem is, it seems to me, that these issues are not as small as you might hope them to be. Let us take one that you mentioned: the Eucharist. We cannot come to a conclusive agreement between Protestants and Catholics because it is a MAJOR doctrinal disagreement. Is it really Jesus? Is it a memorial? Is it Jesus only during the service, or forever? Who can say the words of institution to make it Holy and transform into Jesus? Do we have it every week?

Agreed. BTW, it being really Jesus in no way negates the memorial aspect. A duly consecrated priest can say the words of institution. We have it every day.

Or Baptism....
Is it needed? Can a baby that cannot make decisions really commit to the Christian life? Does it remit sins? Do you need another if you had one as a baby? Can you only get one in a lifetime?

Regarding the baby that cannot make decisions, the parents make all sorts of decisions for the child until the child is of age. And Jesus said it remits sins.

It is a great idea for Christians to find common ground and relate in a more loving way to each other, but full communion is a while off, if ever. This is unfortunate, but it is the place we will be in until Messiah returns.

The Holy Spirit could do something about it as well.

tampasteve · Jan 17, 2018

Root of Jesse said:
Agreed. BTW, it being really Jesus in no way negates the memorial aspect. A duly consecrated priest can say the words of institution. We have it every day.Regarding the baby that cannot make decisions, the parents make all sorts of decisions for the child until the child is of age. And Jesus said it remits sins.The Holy Spirit could do something about it as well.

I agree with the while post, great points. I only meant to point out the disagreements

Albion · Jan 17, 2018

JesusIsLord_ said:
Why do we even care so much about lesser doctrines? I mean, they are important, but not so much one should quarrel with others because of this, or that should divide us.

For example, the perpetual virginity of Mary, or her assumption to heaven. Or babies being baptized. Whatever, baptize the babies already, say hail Mary, whatever. It's pretty pointless. Or maybe we can agree to disagree, but it's a shame that Catholics and Protestants don't even go to the same church or take the same Eucharist because of little things like that. We don't call each other brothers/sisters over these things. It's pointless.

The only valid point i see for this is avoiding theological relativism, which i agree. But as long as it does not goes directly against biblical doctrine, it's pointless discussing.

But if everyone wants so much to be right, we could just agree to disagree and move on, still consider each other brothers and sisters in Christ, do the same things, unite over the same causes.

Don't you notice that the doctrines you pointed to are the product of something that's in the Bible? Both proponents and opponents argue all these things out on the basis of Scripture. The kinds of things that don't cause enough controversy to divide people into different denominations would include 1) which way the altar should face, 2) where in the church the choir should stand, and 3) what, exactly, heaven will be like. People usually do not argue very much over such matters as these.

This fight has been going on for 500 years, everyone believes they're right. So why keep fighting?

Stormy · Jan 17, 2018

I find it amusing that OP was making a thread about why we can't just see each other as bothers and sisters in Christ. The desire was that instead of arguing among ourselves, we might see the big picture... That Jesus is our Saviour and we should love one another.

Of course that was followed by the same old, same old. I'm right and your wrong..

Albion · Jan 17, 2018

Stormy said:
I find it amusing that OP was making a thread about why we can't just see each other as bothers and sisters in Christ. The desire was that instead of arguing among ourselves, we might see the big picture... That Jesus is our Saviour and we should love one another.

Of course that was followed by the same old, same old. I'm right and your wrong..

I'm glad that you are amused, but you are wrong about the tone of the replies so far.

Some reasserted that 'burying the hatchet' in consideration of all that we have in common is desirable, while others noted that while this is good to work towards it is not the case that the differences are insignificant and not based upon any Bible issues. Unfortunately they are. But there has actually been a noticeable absence of the "same old, same old" to which you referred.

TuxAme · Jan 17, 2018

What color vestments the pastor should wear is a minor disagreement. Mary's perpetual virginity and the Real Presence are both very major ones.

Why do we even care?

JesusIsLord_

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Why do we even care?

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