Why do Protestants

Grace_Alone4gives · Oct 13, 2003

Well, this is getting a tad out of hand I think....and I hate the way some threads do. This was a simple question asked to us Protestants - and all we were called to do was answer it. The OP did not argue our answers once....AT ALL!

However, when we, Protestants, in turn asked a simple question about Holy Water - and received an answer - we find that we have to argue or question the answer. Why? We got our answer, and if we have a problem with it we should take it to a forum where it will be answered by Catholics...or in the IDD room - not here.

.....venting.....

Oblio · Oct 13, 2003

We need to start with respect and acceptance that there are differences, and not try to force our two faiths into the same mold. They don't fit together and never will.

So does this mean:

The Kindom of God will be forever divided ? , or
One of our little groups is not part of the Kingdom ?

ZiSunka · Oct 13, 2003

Oblio said:
So does this mean:

The Kindom of God will be forever divided ? , or

One of our little groups is not part of the Kingdom ?

I don't know what it means Oblio. I find it frightening, but I don't know what it means.

ZiSunka · Oct 13, 2003

nyj said:
This is a perfect example of why Catholics and non-Catholics cannot get along. Nowhere in my sentence did I say grace was earned. Rather, based on your own biases and presuppositions, you put words in my mouth that were never there to begin with.

Will God's Church ever be unified? I can't see it happening in my lifetime.

It's part of that thing I was talking about that we don't speak the same language, because the way you described it, it sounded like a case of quid pro quo, I put on this holy medal and God gives me grace because of it. To me, that sounds like doing something to earn grace.

MarieAnn · Oct 13, 2003

i'm really sorry, i didnt mean to start a fight!!

ZiSunka · Oct 13, 2003

MarieAnn said:
i'm really sorry, i didnt mean to start a fight!!

I know, but every discussion between Catholics and non-catholics around here degenerates into a fight, without exception.

That's why I recommended that we don't even try to have a discussion about religion.

What are the three things you don't discuss at a dinner party? Politics, taxes and RELIGION. That's so fights don't break out during an event that is supposed to bring joy and fellowship.

I recommend the same thing here for a while and see if we can't live up to the peace that we are all supposed to be seeking and pursuing.

MarieAnn · Oct 13, 2003

We shouldn't talk about religion on a Christian Forum??

I'll just make my way back to OBOB. Thanks everyone for your answers.

xoxo
marie

Oblio · Oct 13, 2003

lambslove said:
I know, but every discussion between Catholics and non-catholics around here degenerates into a fight, without exception.

That's why I recommended that we don't even try to have a discussion about religion.

Without exception ? Surely we have Common Ground that we can discuss things in charity and near agreement ?

e.g.

http://www.christianforums.com/t61031
http://www.christianforums.com/t61913

Grace_Alone4gives · Oct 13, 2003

lambslove said:
I know, but every discussion between Catholics and non-catholics around here degenerates into a fight, without exception.

That's why I recommended that we don't even try to have a discussion about religion.

What are the three things you don't discuss at a dinner party? Politics, taxes and RELIGION. That's so fights don't break out during an event that is supposed to bring joy and fellowship.

I recommend the same thing here for a while and see if we can't live up to the peace that we are all supposed to be seeking and pursuing.

Uh....this is Christian Forums Lambslove....it is all about discussion.

I'll just make my way back to OBOB. Thanks everyone for your answers.

Don't be silly, feel free to ask us questions - that is one way we learn about each other. Your questions were perfectly fine to ask, and simple enough also. This should not have turned into a debate - some people seem to like debating, regardless of whether or not this particular thread is in a debate secion or not. Sorry.

Without exception ? Surely we have Common Ground that we can discuss things in charity and near agreement ?

oblio - I agree 100% brother.

Lanakila · Oct 13, 2003

*Mod Hat On* This is the OP of the thread. If this thread doesn't get back on topic, and get away from Protestant/Catholic debate, then its going to be closed. We mods get tired of telling the same people this over and over. The forum specific rules need to be obeyed as well. The 1st few pages of this thread were on topic, and even nice. I would appreciate returning to that tone, please. *Mod Hat Off*

MarieAnn said:
I've only been to a protestant church once in my life, I have some questions about it:

Why does your priest talk for so long?
Why don't you use holy water?
Why don't you have communion every week?

umm, that's it!

and
Marie

ZiSunka · Oct 13, 2003

Oblio said:
Without exception ? Surely we have Common Ground that we can discuss things in charity and near agreement ?

Aparently not. If that were possible, we would have started doing it already. Catholics have been part of this forum for almost two years, since King's Tavern merged with CF, and things are much worse than they were then. Rather than promote unity, it seems like this merger has fed hate and produced venom.

I'd rather give up all discussions between OBOB and PRE than keep fighting like this. At least there should be a place in PRE to discuss PRE issues without attacks from Catholics, maybe a subforum where catholics aren't allowed to go at all. I'm sure at first the discussions would be focused around themes like, "Whew, Catholics, who needs 'em" but as we would feel less attacked and threatened, that would go away and we could have discussions about communion, Martin Luther, OSAS and so forth, issues that are important for us to discuss amongst ourselves.

Ken · Oct 13, 2003

how true... one can not think of a potential thread without having to take into consideration the inevitable sarcastic comment from the Catholics (not all, but some) who tend to routinely break forum rules concerning the "no debate" clause that is supposed to be in effect for the PRE area.

Fiskare · Oct 14, 2003

lambslove said:
Aparently not. If that were possible, we would have started doing it already. Catholics have been part of this forum for almost two years, since King's Tavern merged with CF, and things are much worse than they were then. Rather than promote unity, it seems like this merger has fed hate and produced venom.

I'd rather give up all discussions between OBOB and PRE than keep fighting like this. At least there should be a place in PRE to discuss PRE issues without attacks from Catholics, maybe a subforum where catholics aren't allowed to go at all. I'm sure at first the discussions would be focused around themes like, "Whew, Catholics, who needs 'em" but as we would feel less attacked and threatened, that would go away and we could have discussions about communion, Martin Luther, OSAS and so forth, issues that are important for us to discuss amongst ourselves.

Not wanting to stay off topic, but, I found this interesting:

Luther, in his polemic tone, writes:

"We have an all-together similar example in the pope's church and in ours: for we have the same Baptism, the same Sacrament of the Altar, the same Keys, and the Same Scripture and Word. Finally we have our origin from the same apostles and the same church, as though from one mother Rebecca. Why, then do we disagree? We apprehend the Word in the Sacrament, follow the call, and discuss the Word in accordance with faith; but they do so in accordance with what is seen on the outside. We declare that when making use of the sacraments one must pay attention to the Word and accept it in faith; they make it mere work that is performed. Therefore the true church is the one that holds fast to the Word and faith and does not rely on works but hears and follows God when He calls. But the call is the Word through which our nature, which has been corrupted by the devil and sin, is regenerated. (Luther's Works, American Edition, Vol." 4, page 349)

"Furthermore these two brothers [Jacob and Esau] struggle in the womb; and later on, after they had been born, they quarrel throughout the entire time of their life. Thus we continually contend with the pope and the Turk, and it is everlastingly impossible for us to have fellowship or peace them." (Luther's Works, American Edition, Vol. 4, page 368)

"You will never persuade the Turk that he is condemned before God; nor will you persuade the pope that the Roman See is the see of Satan; nor will you persuade Charles V, Ferdinand, and the King of France. For the flesh, that is, the older [brother Esau], is arrogant, prevails and is everything, as it were, in the world." (Luther's Works, American Edition, Vol. 4, page 371)

I found these thoughts interesting from a historical point of view, as well as pertinent to this forum.

However, I agree with the Mod, that the original question should be emphasised. I found the question to be sincere, and yes, I replied.

Lanakila · Oct 14, 2003

*Mod Hat On* Since I was ignored, this thread is closed. I apologize to the thread starter, Marie, but people cannot be mature enough to obey the forum specific rules, for some reason or another. *Mod Hat Off*

Why do Protestants

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