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Why do people like Seventh-day Adventist and Adventist doctrine?

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stuart lawrence

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The problem with these websites is, many on them will never yield to spiritual truth when they are shown to be wrong. What matters to them is simply clinging to their set denominational beliefs, whether they are correct or incorrect.
You cannot refute the truth I showed you in my posts earlier, so you simply ignore them, and the scripture requested and continue to reem the letter off you fail to understand.
Why are SDA in such a muddle?
Because they follow the written code, not the Holy Spirit
 
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BobRyan

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No wonder Jesus said that "he who minimizes the least of God's commandments and so teaches others will be called least in the Kingdom of heaven" in Matt 5. He was being serious. I was not just making up some sort of pre-cross "bad idea". waiting until after the cross to have some "good ideas" as some have imagined.

1 John 5:2-3 says it best.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

Ex 20:6 "Love Me AND keep My Commandments"
John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Rev 14:12 "The saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND the faith of JESUS"

God is not at war with His WORD.
God is not at war with His Commandments.
Neither are His children.

But in Romans 8:4-9 God identifies a group of people that ARE at war with God and His Commandments.



It is still wrong to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:6 - even though mankind is not saved by works.

Impossible to refute this Bible detail

Under the NEW Covenant the - LAW of God is "written on the heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33, rather than "abolished"
 
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BobRyan

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If you quote a scripture - a truth that I agree with - I am under no requirement to refute it. But when you provide a myopic view trying to skew the topic one way as if the balancing texts do not exist -- well then... I post them and you ignore them.

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the FIRST commandment WITH a promise" in that still-valid unique list of TEN

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
"the saints KEEP the Commandments of GOD and the faith of Jesus" Rev 14:12

Bible details that even your own pro-sunday scholars agree with when it comes to the still-valid TEN Commandments.

It just does not get any easier than this!!
 
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stuart lawrence

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Frankly I am bored with this. Your beliefs gave been proved to be riddled with error. You cant produce a single scripture from Acts CH1 onwards( the new covenant in place) that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN commandments can you.

All you can do I reel off the letter without understanding the true message
Anyone can quote scripture, including Muslims, jws, Mormons etc
 
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stuart lawrence

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If you quote a scripture - a truth that I agree with - I am under no requirement to refute it. But when you provide a myopic view trying to skew the topic one way as if the balancing texts do not exist -- well then... I post them and you ignore them.
All your points were earlier responded and what I responded to was scripturally shown to be in error. You cannot refute anything I wrote, so you just come back with reeling off the letter you plainly do not understand
 
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BobRyan

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Frankly I am bored with this. Your beliefs gave been proved to be riddled with error

Not in real life --

. You cant produce a single scripture from Acts CH1 onwards( the new covenant in place) that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN commandments can you.

Your insistence on ignoring the texts provided leaves you imagining that.

But we have already quoted Eph 6:2 - several times and each time you ignore it.

Already posted Rev 14:12 - and each time you ignore it.

Already posted 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" and each time you ignore it.

Already quoted Rom 3:31 and each time you ignore it.

Already quoted 1 John 5:2-3 and each time you ignore it.
 
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stuart lawrence

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All your points were earlier responded to and scripturally shown to be in error. You cannot refute anything I wrote, so you just circle back to refuted arguments
Refute this

SDA accept people as Christians who have no conscience/ Consciousness they commit sin at failing to observe a set seventh day Sabbath. Therefore they have no choice but to accept that commandment as written Is NOT written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian.

You refuted nothing, just robotically reeled off the letter without understanding the heart of the message
 
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stuart lawrence

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As you've already admitted we are conscious of sin through the law placed within us, and you accept under the NC the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer it is IMPOSSIBLE for you to refute

Therefore by the SDA believing you can be a Christian without being conscious you sin by not observing a specific seventh day sabbath, I repeat. They have no choice but to accept That commandment as written is NOT placed in the heart and written on the mind of the Christian.
Therefore under the new covenant they must accept you do not have to observe a set seventh day Sabbath
BUT SDA insist you must observe it

As Jesus said:

Wisdom is proved right by its inconsistencies
 
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stuart lawrence

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BTW

I responded to your quotes from John concerning:
Obey the commandments as anyone can see from reading my posts. Yet you claim I ignored them

As anyone can see from reading my posts I responded to your quote of rom3:31 yet you say I ignored it.

You don't appear to have a conscience( or be conscious you sin) by bearing false witness. Why is that?
 
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BobRyan

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Frankly I am bored with this. Your beliefs gave been proved to be riddled with error

Not in real life --

. You cant produce a single scripture from Acts CH1 onwards( the new covenant in place) that specifically states:
You must obey the TEN commandments can you.

Your insistence on ignoring the texts provided leaves you imagining that.

But we have already quoted Eph 6:2 - several times and each time you ignore it.

Already posted Rev 14:12 - and each time you ignore it.

Already posted 1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God" and each time you ignore it.

Already quoted Rom 3:31 and each time you ignore it.

Already quoted 1 John 5:2-3 and each time you ignore it.

BTW

I responded to your quotes from John concerning:
Obey the commandments as anyone can see from reading my posts. Yet you claim I ignored them

You responded as if John had deleted the Bible and downsized it to just Leviticus 19:18 "love your neighbor as yourself"

But I already show in John 14 and in John 12 that Jesus flatly denied your "delete the Bible" option.

I already showed you that "Do not take God's name in vain" still does exist (though never quoted by John) - "which you ignore" in your "only Lev 19:18" in the Bible for Christians idea.

It is precisely because Calvinism needs to ignore so many of the texts posted in the discussion in order to "survive them" -- it falls short of a "compelling solution" for the objective unbiased Bible student.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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As anyone can see from reading my posts I responded to your quote of rom3:31 yet you say I ignored it.

here?



here?


here?
All your points were earlier responded and what I responded to was scripturally shown to be in error. You cannot refute anything I wrote, so you just come back with reeling off the letter you plainly do not understand

Just where would we go to see you engage in an actual Bible discussion on the texts posted???
 
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BobRyan

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I think we can all see from the post listed here that the majority of pro-sunday scholars are right to admit to these Bible details and to admit that the TEN Commandments - "all TEN" are still binding on Christians today.

 
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BobRyan

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Here we have the NT text providing examples from the TEN Commandments -- affirming them as "still" valid. Just as even the majority of pro-sunday scholars admit to these same Bible details when it comes to "Ten Commandments still applicable to Christians" -- teaching. (So it is not "as if" I am only responding to strong Bible affirmations from the pro-Bible-Sabbath POV)

And of course scripture is -- true.

=========================

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19


Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

Note Paul says in Romans 3 that this is the Law that defines sin and condemns the entire world as sinners... that would not be "the Law about Passover". That does not condemn gentiles at all.
.
...


The context in Romans 3 is not Psalms but rather the LAW that condemns all mankind under sin.

Which I think even you will admit is not simply the Psalms - but the TEN Commandments written on stone the "LAW of death" as Paul calls it in 2Cor 3.

2 Cor 3
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away ==============================


(So then the moral law of God is being affirmed by all of scripture "the Law and the Prophets" a term that specifies all of OT "scripture")


Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Luke 16:16 "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it."

Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty
 
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mmksparbud

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This is what Christians can do in their hearts. Harden them against the Holy Spirit and grieve it.

Mat_18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Heb_3:8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Heb_3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Eph_4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Anyone can override the Holy Spirit with their own stubbornness, they harden their heart against the truth to not inconvenience themselves, and justify themselves going against God. Just as so many walk way from a marriage that they should not, but they'll justify doing so because the spouse isn't everything they thought, because they "deserve" to be happy, and so on and on. They will go against that still small voice even when it is screaming at them.
 
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BobRyan

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Indeed God allows free will such that "He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN received Him not" John 1:11 -- Calvinism does not work there
 
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sparow

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What does it mean to take God's name in vain?

For me God's name is everything that defines God, primarily His commandments, and in vain means to bring to nought.

Having the Law written on the heart and mind such that one does not have to learn it is synonymous with eternal life and the kingdom of God, it comes at the end; it is the covenant fulfilled. Suppose one had the Law written on his heart and mind with out having to learn it; this would mean one grasp of the Law was perfect; now Jesus is our daily sacrifice, that is His blood is shed for sins committed in ignorance; a person who doesn't have to learn the Law cannot claim ignorance and would be without excuse.

The reason people like the SDAs is not because they are perfect.
 
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klutedavid

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What is a CAC??
Hello Bob.

I need to supply the background of the SDA to reach the CAC.

Background and history of the SDA. Christianity Protestantism, Anabaptists Restorationism, Pietism, Millerism, then the Great Disappointment.

Young Ellen White was converted at a Methodist camp, age 9. (Wikipedia)

Then Ellen was baptized within the Millerite movement, age 12. (Wikipedia)

Millerism (followers of the teachings of William Miller)
Miller first shared publicly his belief that the Second Advent of Jesus Christ would occur in roughly the year 1843. Though Himes did not fully accept Miller’s ideas until 1842, he established the fortnightly paper Signs of the Times to publicize them. The first edition was published on February 28, 1840, with Himes as editor. It continues to be published by the Seventh-day Adventist Church as a monthly evangelistic magazine under the same
name.
(Wikipedia)

Ellen White's visions started at age 17.

Now we can proceed to the present era.

Yesterday the leaders of the Seventh-day Adventist (SDA) church, with world headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, and a membership of almost 30 million, voted on an article of
reorganization, based on a decade of long-standing differences and numerous lawsuits between regional church leaders in the United States, Canada, Western Europe and the rest of the world church. The preliminary agreement of reorganization, reached late Tuesday night, would separate the church into two distinct entities with no formal ties to each other.

This would be only the second time in its 161-year history that a major split has occurred. The world church would retain the name Seventh-day Adventists; the new church would be called the Christian Adventist Church (CAC). The first major split occurred about a decade ago with the formal separation of the SDA church in China from the church’s Maryland headquarters.

The tension started in earnest in 2009 with disagreement over issues of interpretation of biblical creation, women’s ordination, tithing, the gift of prophecy, and the relevancy of some of its doctrines; namely the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, which has had a long history of detractors. Failure to come to any consensus eventually led to many church districts moving out on their own against the guidance of the church’s administrative body, known as the General Conference. (Christian News Media)

Other movements associated with the SDA.

Seventh Day Adventist Reform Movement

True and Free Seventh-day Adventists

Davidian Seventh-day Adventist, Branch Davidians.

It is not difficult to see the various doctrinal layers adopted from previous movements, that Ellen carried into the SDA organization. Though the Millerites seemed to have the greatest influence on young Ellen.
 
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stuart lawrence

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I think we can all see from the post listed here that the majority of pro-sunday scholars are right to admit to these Bible details and to admit that the TEN Commandments - "all TEN" are still binding on Christians today.
In seven years of being on these kinds of websites I thought I had seen it all, but.....

You say all of the TC are still binding( the fourth as written) You believe therefore they are all written on the mind and placed on the heart of the Christian.
You believe through the law placed within you, you become conscious of sin.
Yet your denomination accepts as Christians people who have no consciousness of sin by failing to observe a set saturday Sabbath.
This is nonsensical.
Best thing for you would have been to drop the subject rather than keep highlighting your absurd position on this. But you just cant stop can you
 
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stuart lawrence

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Sadly you are a great endorsement of core Christian beliefs I hold, as I have found others to be such as yourself. The more earnest people are you must obey the law the less conviction of sin they appear to have in their own lives
 
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