Why do people hate ICE...

camille70 said:

Yes. As I've shared before, I wouldn't be here if it weren't for the ACA.

Click to expand...

Thats it? The ACA? All that you wrote regarding how terrible and racist the republicans are had to do with the. ACA? The rest of your life is way better and its all due to the ACA? It seemed like you were talking about a lot of things beside the ACA.

By the way, I am glad you are okay. My friend wasnt helped by the ACA.

rjs330 said:

Thats it? The ACA? All that you wrote regarding how terrible and racist the republicans are had to do with the. ACA? The rest of your life is way better and its all due to the ACA? It seemed like you were talking about a lot of things beside the ACA.

By the way, I am glad you are okay. My friend wasnt helped by the ACA.

Click to expand...

I was speaking of more and I had 3 paragraphs typed out to reply to this, but I don't think it matters. I'm sorry things didn't work out for your friend.

rjs330 said:

Do you want to deport all illegal aliens?

Click to expand...

I married an illegal alien (student visa overstay, long since a citizen). The DACCA/Dreamers are illegal - I do not want them deported. I admire the people who fought hard to get here and make a decent life for themselves. They show more gumption than a lot of native born Americans. They are my friends and neighbors.

I hope you don't intend to morph this into "So you don't want to deport any illegal aliens" or your favorite straw man, "So you think the US has to accept all good immigrants".

Op/Ed: ICE is grabbing U.S. citizens, defying its own rules and the Constitution​

Dayanne Figueroa was on her way to work in Chicago last month when she drove onto a street where an immigration enforcement action was in progress. As she attempted to drive around the chaos, an unmarked vehicle collided with her car. Masked men jumped out of the vehicle, guns drawn and dragged Figueroa from her car by her legs. She was thrown into a minivan, taken away and held by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for hours. Dayanne Figueroa is an American citizen.

Figueroa’s case is not an isolated incident. The nonprofit newsroom ProPublica hasdocumented more than 170 cases of U.S. citizens, mostly Latinos, being detained at raids and protests since January.

The wrongful arrest of U.S. citizens by immigration agents is not new; it happened under Presidents Biden and Obama, and during President Trump’s first term. What is new is that Homeland Security and ICE are dramatically ramping up enforcement actions, while operating with less oversight than in the past. This has resulted in greater potential for mistakes — and for more traumatized or injured Americans.

The government denies that these episodes are happening. “There’s no American citizens that have been arrested or detained,” Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said in October. “[Her statement] also is contradicted by Homeland Security press releases explaining why some citizens have been arrested or detained.

When citizens are arrested by immigration agents, it is frequently on the grounds of assaulting or impeding officers. The ProPublica report, however, found that such charges often were dismissed later or dropped. [Figueroa was never charged.]

rjs330 said:

I will repeat myself. If you self deport you are eligible to apply to return. You don't have to lie.

Click to expand...

Although evidence shows that those who entered the US illegally must report this on immigration forms, you still claim they're eligible to return. This suggests an unwillingness to accept facts that challenge your stance on self-deportation and legal entry. Repeating this view seems to ignore both the information provided and empathy for these individuals, prioritizing deportation over objective assessment.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Circumstances are changing constantly.

Click to expand...

Again, if the only circumstance that are changing constantly is whether it is you or me, then the problem is hypocrisy. If not, then this is a different question.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Nobody said only criminals.

Click to expand...

True, it was simply stated the ICE would be going after criminals, with the unspoken "only" being strongly implied.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

You frame it as though "they have to lie". Wouldn't honesty be the Christian approach here, even if it means being denied entry into the US? Or are immigrants are not bound by Christian moral standards?

Click to expand...

Everyone should always provide truthful information on immigration forms. Anyone who has entered the US or overstayed their visa and then left must disclose this when applying for a US entry visa again. Admitting to violating US immigration law typically results in automatic denial of future entry to the US. And you are right that is the Christian thing to do.

Christians in America who insist undocumented immigrants, “You should self-deport, go back to your country, and then return legally,” they should be honest about their statements. If they advise someone to self-deport, they ought to clarify that coming back may not be possible. Many Americans who recommend self-deportation are not being truthful with the undocumented about the reality of returning legally. This lack of honesty is not consistent with Christian values.

DaisyDay said:

True, it was simply stated the ICE would be going after criminals, with the unspoken "only" being strongly implied.

Click to expand...

And then the next move was that they're all criminals.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

Or are immigrants are not bound by Christian moral standards?

Click to expand...

Christians are bound by Christian standards, however they interpret them.

DaisyDay said:

Again, if the only circumstance that are changing constantly is whether it is you or me, then the problem is hypocrisy. If not, then this is a different question.

True, it was simply stated the ICE would be going after criminals, with the unspoken "only" being strongly implied.

Click to expand...

The only circumstance that has changed is that today one of the leading political parties and its supporters advocate for deporting millions of undocumented immigrants and further restricting legal immigration to the United States. However, all other factors suggest that America should consider increased legal immigration, which could contribute to economic stability.

Disclaimer: these stats are generated by AI, so take the fact with some grain of salt. But if you look up some reputable source like brooking insinuate or similar institute they all have similar numbers.


------------------------------------------------------

AI generated Status

Labor Force Projections​

Without new immigrants, the US labor force would shrink and age rapidly. Native-born population growth is below replacement level, leading to a declining workforce.

Chart 1: US Labor Force by Age Group (No Immigration Scenario)

• Under 25: Shrinks by 20% by 2055
• 25-54: Declines by 15%
• 55+: Increases by 30% (aging workforce)

Economic Growth Impact​

Immigrants drive GDP growth by increasing the labor supply and contributing to productivity. The absence of immigrants would result in slower economic expansion.

Key Facts:

• Immigrants accounted for nearly 50% of labor force growth from 2000–2020.
• Without immigrants, annual GDP growth could fall below 1% by 2055.
• Labor productivity may stagnate due to reduced entrepreneurship and innovation.

Demographic Shifts​

Immigration helps counteract population aging and supports a balanced dependency ratio (the number of working-age people relative to dependents).

Chart 2: Dependency Ratio (Dependents per 100 Working-Age Adults)

• With immigration: 65 by 2055
• No immigration: 80 by 2055 (higher burden on working population)

Sectoral Impacts​

Some industries rely heavily on immigrant labor. The absence of new immigrants would intensify labor shortages, particularly in:

• Agriculture: Up to 50% of farmworkers are immigrants.
• Healthcare: 1 in 4 direct care workers is foreign-born.
• Technology: Immigrants make up 24% of STEM workers and co-found over 40% of Fortune 500 firms.
• Construction, Hospitality, Food Services: High reliance on immigrant labor for growth and operations.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


However, it's impossible to persuade MAGA supporters of any of these facts. They show absolutely no interest in them. After ten rounds of messages, I couldn't convince even one person that, on the US immigration forum, applicants must disclose whether they were previously in the USA. If we can't convince someone about official US government requirements, I seriously doubt they would understand or accept complicated US economic projections for the next thirty years.

Fortunately, most of us only need to put up with this situation for another 14 months. Hispanic voters, young voters, and some Black voters who supported the GOP in 2024 have come to realize that the current administration's policies are detrimental both to their communities and to the country as a whole. By 2027, Congress will shift its balance of power, and the GOP is unlikely to win another presidential election unless they completely overhaul themselves and join the rest of us in embracing the 21st century.

camille70 said:

So you are going to dismiss what I'm telling you about my own community? Democrats don't have to tell Black people anything. We have eyes and ears.

Click to expand...

He isn't even aware of how presumptuous it is to claim that you don't know what's best for yourself.

essentialsaltes said:

Op/Ed: ICE is grabbing U.S. citizens, defying its own rules and the Constitution​

Dayanne Figueroa was on her way to work in Chicago last month when she drove onto a street where an immigration enforcement action was in progress. As she attempted to drive around the chaos, an unmarked vehicle collided with her car. Masked men jumped out of the vehicle, guns drawn and dragged Figueroa from her car by her legs. She was thrown into a minivan, taken away and held by Immigration and Customs Enforcement for hours. Dayanne Figueroa is an American citizen.

Figueroa’s case is not an isolated incident. The nonprofit newsroom ProPublica hasdocumented more than 170 cases of U.S. citizens, mostly Latinos, being detained at raids and protests since January.

The wrongful arrest of U.S. citizens by immigration agents is not new; it happened under Presidents Biden and Obama, and during President Trump’s first term. What is new is that Homeland Security and ICE are dramatically ramping up enforcement actions, while operating with less oversight than in the past. This has resulted in greater potential for mistakes — and for more traumatized or injured Americans.

The government denies that these episodes are happening. “There’s no American citizens that have been arrested or detained,” Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem said in October. “[Her statement] also is contradicted by Homeland Security press releases explaining why some citizens have been arrested or detained.

When citizens are arrested by immigration agents, it is frequently on the grounds of assaulting or impeding officers. The ProPublica report, however, found that such charges often were dismissed later or dropped. [Figueroa was never charged.]

Click to expand...

I will be honest. As a law and order guy, I am frustrated at ICE. Every single Ametican rhat is picked up for assaulting or impeding, obstructing should be charged. They should have to go to court.

If ICE is truly wrong in their arrests they will stop doing it and if they are correct then they will be proven accurate. The failure to charge and take it to court is a TOTAL FAILURE on the part of Justice system. I fell like they don't want to mess with it even if they are correct. It needs to stop. Charge or dont bother. Its ridiculous.

rjs330 said:

I will be honest. As a law and order guy, I am frustrated at ICE. Every single Ametican rhat is picked up for assaulting or impeding, obstructing should be charged. They should have to go to court.

Click to expand...

ICE is only responsible for arresting these citizens. It's the Trump DOJ that is declining to charge them because ICE's lies don't hold up to even the slightest scrutiny.

rjs330 said:

If ICE is truly wrong in their arrests they will stop doing it

Click to expand...

What makes you say that?

ICE arrests McMinnville High School student during Friday lunch period​

“This afternoon, we became aware of an incident off school grounds in which a high school student was taken into custody by Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE] during today’s lunch period,” McMinnville Superintendent Kourtney Ferrua wrote in a message to parents. “Students who were nearby witnessed the event. We are working to verify information through appropriate channels and remain in communication with local partners.”

The Yamhill County News-Register reported that the family of the arrested 17-year-old student said he is a U.S. citizen.

--
[Second link has been updated:]
[Update 11/22] Family of a Mac High student detained by ICE say he was released around 7 p.m. Friday evening.

Cesar Jimenez, the brother of Mac High senior Christian Jiminez, said the family was contacted by federal authorities around 5 p.m. and told he could be released "only if two family members who are U.S. citizens arrive in person to pick him up."

Cesar said his brother was "racially profiled, threatened along with his peers, dragged out of a car, and injured by shattered glass when ICE agents broke the driver’s window." He told The Oregonian that authorities are trying to charge his Christian with “interference or obstruction of investigation.”

DaisyDay said:

True, it was simply stated the ICE would be going after criminals, with the unspoken "only" being strongly implied.

Click to expand...

I understood this to mean primarily criminals. Of course non-criminal illegal immigrants will inevitably get caught it the raids as well. They will also have to be deported, because - you know, illegal.

essentialsaltes said:

ICE is only responsible for arresting these citizens. It's the Trump DOJ that is declining to charge them because ICE's lies don't hold up to even the slightest scrutiny.

Click to expand...

Thats not entirely true. Too many are being released without charges. Thats ICE decision.

essentialsaltes said:

What makes you say that?

Click to expand...

Because agents will be tired of going to court and losing.

essentialsaltes said:

ICE arrests McMinnville High School student during Friday lunch period​

“This afternoon, we became aware of an incident off school grounds in which a high school student was taken into custody by Immigration and Customs Enforcement [ICE] during today’s lunch period,” McMinnville Superintendent Kourtney Ferrua wrote in a message to parents. “Students who were nearby witnessed the event. We are working to verify information through appropriate channels and remain in communication with local partners.”

The Yamhill County News-Register reported that the family of the arrested 17-year-old student said he is a U.S. citizen.

--
[Second link has been updated:]
[Update 11/22] Family of a Mac High student detained by ICE say he was released around 7 p.m. Friday evening.

Cesar Jimenez, the brother of Mac High senior Christian Jiminez, said the family was contacted by federal authorities around 5 p.m. and told he could be released "only if two family members who are U.S. citizens arrive in person to pick him up."

Cesar said his brother was "racially profiled, threatened along with his peers, dragged out of a car, and injured by shattered glass when ICE agents broke the driver’s window." He told The Oregonian that authorities are trying to charge his Christian with “interference or obstruction of investigation.”

Click to expand...

So whats the rest of the story? I've watched too many people engaged in obstructionist behavior that im tired of people getting away with it. I hope this kid was charged and not just released.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

I understood this to mean primarily criminals. Of course non-criminal illegal immigrants will inevitably get caught it the raids as well. They will also have to be deported, because - you know, illegal.

Click to expand...

But you have to remember that hundreds if not thousands of aliens became illegal only after this administration revoked their legal status, all too often the moment the alien attended their scheduled meetings with the immigration judges so ICE could conveniently scoop them up. Student visas were revoked en masse out of spite to certain universities. Raiding Home Depot parking lots, factories, etc. was not inevitable in the process of picking up criminal aliens - this was the plan.

SoldierOfTheKing said:

I understood this to mean primarily criminals. Of course non-criminal illegal immigrants will inevitably get caught it the raids as well. They will also have to be deported, because - you know, illegal.

Click to expand...

If they are "primarily" going after criminals, why do so few of those arrested have criminal records? Less than 30% of those detained to date have any prior criminal convictions, and a significant percentage of those are for minor infractions like traffic violations. In Chicago, less than 3% of those arrested in Operation Midway Blitz had criminal records.

The leftist media is twisting and manipulating facts. They lie about ICE using force or snatching people off the street or being cruel when it’s not true. For example, if a person may be working at daycare and getting off their shift. The ICE people do their job and and question the person before taking them, outside. But the media says “ICE storms into daycare and rips a mom from her baby!” to get people angry.