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You are just hitting the disagree button with no real proof or evidence to support you. I see your camp and George Sodini's camp preach the same message that believers trust in the finished work of Christ and nothing else. What distinguishes one from obeying and the other in disobeying?
Yeah, with pride you will never get any knowledge.
What does that have to do with our conversation? See when one cannot stay with the subject at hand, that tells me they cannot stand their ground with that subject.
When you are ready to answer the questions, and stay on track, just let me know..
I gave quotes from Jesus that gives the full context of what you are meaning. If you only seek to flame and show your pride I have no reason to talk with you. I already have this same problem with another user.
Take it up with George Sodini.
I concluded that there was no way to know what you were saying in that post. Again, it's because of the use of imprecise wording that could be taken in different ways by the reader.
Look here, for instance. You wrote:
"If one is advocating salvation without works, then one is advocating in not loving God and not loving others as a part of salvation."
Not only is that convoluted and unclear but what is "advocating salvation without works" supposed to mean?
Does it mean salvation is accomplished without works being a causative factor in the salvation?" Or does it mean "salvation occurs and there are no works in evidence thereafter?"
As I said before, you've switched away from the topic of 'Easy Believism' and onto a defense of 'Works Righteousness.' That's an old debate having nothing to do with this thread.@Albion
You want me to believe that Belief Alone-ism is true. It is not. The Bible teaches that we also need to enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation (after being saved by God's grace), too. Don't believe me? Just check out these verses below.
- We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
- Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
- A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
- Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
- Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).
- We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).
- Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).
- Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
- Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).
- Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).
- If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).
- Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).
Now, Albion, you either have to ignore these verses, or twist and change them to say something else in order to make Belief Alone-ism true. For these above verses fly in direct contradiction to Belief Alone-ism.
For even the demons believe and tremble (James 2:19).
It's actually you who has twisted these verses above in order to promote "type 2 works salvation." Since you fail to interpret scripture within it's intended context and fail to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine and confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture, you will inevitably misinterpret these passages of scripture above and continue to peddle "performance based works salvation."
As for belief alone/salvation through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone, the Bible clearly states in many passages of scripture that we are saved through belief/faith "apart from additions or modifications." (Luke 7:50; 8:12; John 1:12; 3:15,16,18,36; 6:40,47; 11:25,26; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 15:7-9; 16:31; 26:18; Romans 1:16; 3:22-28; 4:5; 5:1; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:21; Galatians 2:16; 3:6-8; Ephesians 2:8; Philippians 3:9; 2 Timothy 3:15; Hebrews 10:39; 1 John 5:13 etc..).
You don't need to add the word "alone" next to "belief/faith" in each of these passages of scripture in order to figure out that the words "belief/faith" stand alone in connection with receiving eternal life/salvation. Do these many passages of scripture say belief/faith "plus something else?" Plus works? NO. So then it's faith (rightly understood) IN CHRIST ALONE.
As I said before, you've switched away from the topic of 'Easy Believism' and onto a defense of 'Works Righteousness.' That's an old debate having nothing to do with this thread.
No, it isn't. It is a claim that people who get saved think that they have a license to sin all they want thereafter. You outlined it yourself but now are onto something else.Easy Believism is by defintion an exclusion of “God's biblical version grace, + Sanctification” as a part of salvation. .
No, it isn't. It is a claim that people who get saved think that they have a license to sin all they want thereafter. You outlined it yourself but now are onto something else.
Paul Washer is quoting James. Perhaps you think the epistle of James does not belong in the Bible? It bugged Martin Luther. Lord Jesus said that we can recognise true or false by their fruit. Before I was saved, I despised church (bad experiences) and I literally could not read the Bible. After I was born again, I sought out other Christians and loved to go to every meeting that I could. I studied the Bible, sometimes for hours. Everything began to change. Things I used to do that did not bother me disgusted me. And that change has been progressive over the decades.Actually that's exactly what Paul Washer condemns. I heard Paul Washer say word for word, "If you don't have work, you're not saved." He teaches the confusing lie that if you have faith then you will somehow automatically have all the works also. That's just a sneaky way of teaching works salvation. It's basically works salvation masqueraded as salvation through faith.
Do you think that all the false teachers would just openly proclaim to everyone that they are false teachers? Of course not. The Bible says they are in sheep's clothing. So they appear as if they were good Christians but in reality they're not. And it appears as if they taught salvation through faith alone but in reality they don't. Things are not always the way they appear. If you looked at a literal wolf in sheep's clothing, it would look like it was a real sheep. But if you did close examination, you would find out it's actually a fake sheep and there's wolf inside.
Someone who is really born again will want to turn away from their old way of life. The new nature within hates sin and wants to go God's way. Anyone who tells me that they love to sin and don't want to change is telling me that they are not born again.@Albion
Let me give you an example. If I told a child that they are saved by a belief alone on Jesus and nothing else and they never got to see me again, and they took my words literally, then I would be to blame if they turned out to be the next George Sodini because the VERY MESSAGE itself is leading that person into sin. The message is not saying they are saved and that will always lead to holiness or holy living. If that is what you believe, then stop saying plus nothing else and you must live holy as a part of the salvation equation.
I believe it's part of the Christian faith in the New Testament apostolic body of doctrines, yet faith in Christ unto salvation is belief, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation and obedience which "follows" and is produced "out of" faith (fruit of faith) is "works" and we are saved through faith, not works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9). You basically teach that faith "is" obedience/works.Is obeying Jesus a part of the faith?
Romans 3:23 - All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. *NEVER lose sight of that!Is Jesus warning us of the condemnation of sin in Matthew 5:28-30 a part of the faith?
I would say it is.
You seem to be using the words of Jesus here to teach salvation by works and/or sinless perfection. Often we see Jesus' teachings in the 4 gospel accounts in rebuke to the Pharisees and scribes, calling them out on their hypocrisy. You should not read sinless perfection and works salvation into His teachings.My problem with the Belief Alone-ism camp is that all of them have told me that the words of Jesus in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46 do not apply.
What makes no sense is Jesus going to the cross to save sinless people.But that does not make any sense because why would Jesus give us new teachings just so that they could quickly be undone after the cross? It makes no sense.
Take note that Paul said the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. Those who practice such things (list of sins in Galatians 5:19-21) will not inherit the kingdom of God. In 1 John 3:9, we read - No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.But even Paul and his followers after the cross warned about how sin can destroy our souls. Paul says that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God and he lists various sins as an example (See: Galatians 5:19-21).
When all else fails play the straw man card.So if no works are required as a part of salvation, then one does not have to lift a finger for God. They can go back to their old life and eat the vomit again.
I have read the Parable of the Talents numerous times and those who teach salvation by works and eternal IN-security commonly cite this parable as an alleged proof text for their doctrine.You obviously need to read the Parable of the Talents again. Matthew 25:21 makes it clear that the one who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of their Lord, and the other who was unprofitable was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30).
Amen! "Works righteousness/performance based works salvation" is exactly what he is peddling.As I said before, you've switched away from the topic of 'Easy Believism' and onto a defense of 'Works Righteousness.' That's an old debate having nothing to do with this thread.
No, it isn't. It is a claim that people who get saved think that they have a license to sin all they want thereafter. You outlined it yourself but now are onto something else.
Someone who is really born again will want to turn away from their old way of life. The new nature within hates sin and wants to go God's way. Anyone who tells me that they love to sin and don't want to change is telling me that they are not born again.
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