Why do men have nipples?

Jamin4422 · Sep 11, 2012

Split Rock said:
The bible says (clearly) that got made Adam from dirt.

No one has a problem calling the elements dirt. It looks to me like you do not know anything about Biology. For example 1/7 of the carbon available as energy flows though the ecosystem. So the ecosystem IE DIRT has 7 times more energy then what is used at any given time to substain life. Just so you understand Bacteria and Fungus break life down dead organisms in the soil so that the next plant can use that energy. Then the cow eats the plant and we eat the cow. This is the cycle of life or whatever it is they call it. Of course plants get energy from the sun also.

Cute Tink · Sep 11, 2012

Nipples in males are actually an evidence of “design economy.”

From the AiG "article".

Why would an omnipotent being need economy of design? Just curious.

No one has a problem calling the elements dirt. It looks to me like you do not know anything about Biology.

Split Rock is addressing your previous post stating that Adam had to pass his mother's MtDNA on to Eve and is addressing that accordingly. He doesn't believe in Adam and Eve as per the Biblical story.

NailsII · Sep 11, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
No one has a problem calling the elements dirt. It looks to me like you do not know anything about Biology. For example 1/7 of the carbon available as energy flows though the ecosystem. So the ecosystem IE DIRT has 7 times more energy then what is used at any given time to substain life. Just so you understand Bacteria and Fungus break life down dead organisms in the soil so that the next plant can use that energy. Then the cow eats the plant and we eat the cow. This is the cycle of life or whatever it is they call it. Of course plants get energy from the sun also.

It looks to me you don't know the difference between energy and matter.

NailsII · Sep 11, 2012

Cute Tink said:
From the AiG "article".

Why would an omnipotent being need economy of design? Just curious.

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

Smidlee · Sep 11, 2012

Cute Tink said:
From the AiG "article".

Why would an omnipotent being need economy of design? Just curious.

A omnipotent being wouldn't yet this also mean He could also.

NailsII said:
Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

That's one possibility why a omnipotent being would, that is to make us wonder.

Wiccan_Child · Sep 12, 2012

SkyWriting said:
Sure, I can did deeper if you like.

It's fairly subtle because is termed SEXUALLY VESTIGIAL. Open to confusion by many.

"It would not be a vestigial trait, like the appendix or male
nipples, of no selective import at all, because music still
carries a physiological cost"

Male Nipples
10 Vestigial Traits You Didn't Know You Had

. Does the HVc
in female zebra finches have some other function, or
could it be merely sexually vestigial, such as nipples in
male mammals?

Hey, I'm not defending AIG. I find them to be slackers, just like the people who call them liars without do any checking first. I don't support their YE premise either. They are preachers, ministers, and lay people with an agenda that clouds their judgment.

SkyWriting, it's ironic that you're lambasting people for not doing the research, when you evidently didn't read beyond the first few lines of a Google Search. Take, for instance, your citation of io.9's listing of male nipples of 'vestigial'. Here's what they actually say:

"While examples of males who can lactate pop up from time to time, the biological function of male nipples remains a mystery. They are most likely vestigial in a different way than many of the other features on this list, in the sense that they aren't left over from an evolutionary event, but rather an embryological/developmental one. All fetuses effectively begin life in the womb as females. In the absence of a fetal Y-chromosome, the embryo will develop into a full-blown female. When a Y-chromosome is present, however, the fetus will produce hormones like testosterone and develop into a male, but the nipples pretty much just hang out. This essentially makes them decorative. (And play things. Also play things.)"

Emphasis added. Despite being a non-scientific source (and thus wouldn't qualify for AiG's assertion that evolutionary theory claims nipples are genuinely vestigial), it still gets it right - it explicitly states that nipples aren't vestigial.

Wiccan_Child · Sep 12, 2012

Smidlee said:
A omnipotent being wouldn't yet this also mean He could also.

That's one possibility why a omnipotent being would, that is to make us wonder.

I'd rather such a being put its efforts into minimising suffering, than eliciting wonder.

Split Rock · Sep 12, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
No one has a problem calling the elements dirt. It looks to me like you do not know anything about Biology. For example 1/7 of the carbon available as energy flows though the ecosystem. So the ecosystem IE DIRT has 7 times more energy then what is used at any given time to substain life. Just so you understand Bacteria and Fungus break life down dead organisms in the soil so that the next plant can use that energy. Then the cow eats the plant and we eat the cow. This is the cycle of life or whatever it is they call it. Of course plants get energy from the sun also.

I guess you don't know anything about chemistry. Dirt has silicon in it. Where did that go? And btw, I have a Ph.D. in biology.

Naraoia · Sep 12, 2012

Cute Tink said:
From the AiG "article".

Why would an omnipotent being need economy of design? Just curious.

I'm more curious as to how male nipples represent an economy of design. Could you really not make a common "human" template without including nipples in it? (Or Müllerian ducts that then regress? Seriously, do the AiG people ever check whether their examples even support their point?) Guys are perfectly capable of growing a penis and a beard later in development, so why do girls need their nipples before sex determination kicks in?

Loudmouth · Sep 12, 2012

juvenissun said:
The nipples mark an important location of a nerve center. It is the hub of nerves that connects many other critical organs in the body. (If you take acupuncture therapy, you might get a needle which sticks right into it (or from side into it).)

The swelling of female nipples serves an "additional" function.

Why don't we find birds with nipples if they are so important?

vortigen84 · Sep 12, 2012

DaneaFL said:
Lol adam and eve... People still think that they were actual historic people?

I see a trend here of completely ignoring certain fields of science like molecular biology specifically genetics and most of anthropology...

I see people ignoring divine revelation.

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

NailsII said:
It looks to me you don't know the difference between energy and matter.

Wonderful, go right ahead and seperate energy and matter for me. Show me how much difference there is. Even if you found some pure energy somewhere, how are you going to measure it?

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

wiremu.white said:
I see people ignoring divine revelation.

Actually if they do not accept that Adam and Eve were real people they ignore science. Although it turns out that the Adam and Eve that are the parents of everyone alive today lived a lot longer ago then the Hebrew Adam and Eve we read about in the Bible. So maybe that is the problem, they get confused over the difference between Hebrew and Gentiles. They do not understand that there were Hebrews that were cut off because of unbelief and gentiles grafted in. That is why we are adopted into the family of God.

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

Split Rock said:
And btw, I have a Ph.D. in biology.

Wonderful, then it should be NO problem for you to tell me where the elements, IE the atoms come from that make up your body. They come from the food we eat. Where does the food get it from? The soil, IE dirt.

We start off as one cell. Are all the atoms that make us up in that one cell?

Of course elements come from star stuff and before that the big bang.

Loudmouth · Sep 12, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
Actually if they do not accept that Adam and Eve were real people they ignore science.

How so?

Although it turns out that the Adam and Eve that are the parents of everyone alive today lived a lot longer ago then the Hebrew Adam and Eve we read about in the Bible.

Y-chromosome Adam and mtDNA Eve did not live at the same time. They were separated by tens of thousands of years. Also, men and women who were alive at the same time as Y-chromosome Adam and mtDNA Eve also made DNA contributions to our modern populations. You have stretched MRCA's into a fiction of your own making. Science does not say that the entire human race descendend from only one man and one woman.

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

Cute Tink said:
Split Rock is addressing your previous post stating that Adam had to pass his mother's MtDNA on to Eve and is addressing that accordingly. He doesn't believe in Adam and Eve as per the Biblical story.

We are told that Eve came from Adam's rib. So the ONLY MtDNA that Adam would have is what he got from his mother. God everything He needed to make Eve from Adam's rib.

Now maybe this is all symbolic. Maybe Adam married his aunt, or maybe Adam married his sister. But for now I believe the Bible is literal and that God got Eve from Adam's rib, because science tells us that all the genetic information that we would need to create a women can be found in the bone marrow.

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

Loudmouth said:
How so?

Y-chromosome Adam and mtDNA Eve did not live at the same time.

You are talking about Time Magazine Scientific Adam and Eve that we are all related to, brother. I am talking about the HEBREW Adam and Eve that we read about in the Bible. Science would refer to them as the Halpogroup J1, defined by the M267 SNP.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]
Now, I know people say the M267 SNP was not the Adam we read about in our Bible. Even though they lived at the same time and lived in the same location. So that means you would believe the next door theory. M267 SNP lived next door to the Adam and Eve we read about in our Bible. Maybe they borrowed each others tools sense they were next door neighbors.

"[/FONT]In human genetics, Y DNA haplogroup J1, also known as J-M267, is a sub-haplogroup of Y DNA haplogroup J, along with its sibling clade Y DNA haplogroup J2. Men with this type of Y DNA share a common paternal ancestry, which is demonstrated and defined by the presence of the SNPmutation referred to as M267, which was announced in Cinnioğlu et al. (2004). This haplogroup is found today in significant frequencies in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is amongst the most frequent haplogroups in Arabian Peninsula, and parts of the Caucasus, Sudanand the Horn of Africa. It is also found in somewhat less frequencies in parts North Africa and Jews in general (especially Jews with Cohen surnames). It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts, in Europe and as far east as the Indian subcontinent and Central Asia." wiki

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[/FONT]

Loudmouth · Sep 12, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
We are told that Eve came from Adam's rib. So the ONLY MtDNA that Adam would have is what he got from his mother. God everything He needed to make Eve from Adam's rib.

Where is the scientific evidence that any of this actually occurred?

Jamin4422 · Sep 12, 2012

Loudmouth said:
How so?

Y-chromosome Adam and mtDNA Eve did not live at the same time.

You are talking about Time Magazine Scientific Adam and Eve that we are all related to, brother. I am talking about the HEBREW Adam and Eve that we read about in the Bible. Science would refer to them as the Halpogroup J1, defined by the M267 SNP.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]
Now, I know people say the M267 SNP was not the Adam we read about in our Bible. Even though they lived at the same time and lived in the same location. So that means you would believe the next door theory. M267 SNP lived next door to the Adam and Eve we read about in our Bible. Maybe they borrowed each others tools sense they were next door neighbors.

Of course J-M267 actually represents Aaron. But Aaron and Adam were so close that we are going to assume that Adam had this mutation. There just were NOT that many generations between Adam, Abraham and Aaron. So for now we just assume they all had the same mutation, IE genetic marker.

"[/FONT]In human genetics, Y DNA haplogroup J1, also known as J-M267, is a sub-haplogroup of Y DNA haplogroup J, along with its sibling clade Y DNA haplogroup J2. Men with this type of Y DNA share a common paternal ancestry, which is demonstrated and defined by the presence of the SNPmutation referred to as M267, which was announced in Cinnioğlu et al. (2004). This haplogroup is found today in significant frequencies in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is amongst the most frequent haplogroups in Arabian Peninsula, and parts of the Caucasus, Sudanand the Horn of Africa. It is also found in somewhat less frequencies in parts North Africa and Jews in general (especially Jews with Cohen surnames). It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts, in Europe and as far east as the Indian subcontinent and Central Asia." wiki

[FONT=arial, sans-serif]
[/FONT]

Loudmouth · Sep 12, 2012

Jamin4422 said:
You are talking about Time Magazine Scientific Adam and Eve that we are all related to, brother.

We are also related to the other women and men who lived during the same time period, brother. We just don't share all of them in common.

I am talking about the HEBREW Adam and Eve that we read about in the Bible. Science would refer to them as the Halpogroup J1, defined by the M267 SNP.

The science does not demonstrate that they ever had any children together, nor does it demonstrate that they were the only man and woman to contribute DNA to those modern populations. Every mutation found in the modern population potentially has a DIFFERENT common ancestor.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]

Now, I know people say the M267 SNP was not the Adam we read about in our Bible. Even though they lived at the same time and lived in the same location. So that means you would believe the next door theory. M267 SNP lived next door to the Adam and Eve we read about in our Bible. Maybe they borrowed each others tools sense they were next door neighbors.

[/FONT]

There is nothing demonstrating that they were even alive at the same time.

[FONT=arial,sans-serif]

"

[/FONT]In human genetics, Y DNA haplogroup J1, also known as J-M267, is a sub-haplogroup of Y DNA haplogroup J, along with its sibling clade Y DNA haplogroup J2. Men with this type of Y DNA share a common paternal ancestry, which is demonstrated and defined by the presence of the SNPmutation referred to as M267, which was announced in Cinnioğlu et al. (2004). This haplogroup is found today in significant frequencies in many areas in order near the Middle East. For example it is amongst the most frequent haplogroups in Arabian Peninsula, and parts of the Caucasus, Sudanand the Horn of Africa. It is also found in somewhat less frequencies in parts North Africa and Jews in general (especially Jews with Cohen surnames). It can also be found much less commonly, but still occasionally in significant amounts, in Europe and as far east as the Indian subcontinent and Central Asia." wiki

What about the DRB1 haplogroups? Those come from common ancestors that are not y-chromosome Adam or mitDNA Eve.

Why do men have nipples?

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