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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Creation & Evolution
Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?
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<blockquote data-quote="TheReasoner" data-source="post: 62550582" data-attributes="member: 104245"><p>Can you show one example where supernaturalists have been right in their predictions? ONE testable example? Just<em> one</em>?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Only thing is, you appear to claim that's when things started. We know for a fact that is not true. So we have a case here where you and your brethren actively preach a known falsehood, and despite your position being thoroughly falsified you keep preaching it. Often to usually or in some cases darn near always without a touch of integrity, logical consistency or decency. </p><p></p><p>I wonder why you believe as you do. you have to violate your own belief in order to believe what you do; You guys violate the ninth commandment unbelievably often. So the question I have is then; Do you REALLY believe? Because it does not seem that way. It really does not. Not when you must resort to deceit and dishonesty to maintain that faith.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Few people here categorically deny that he exists. What IS said and asked is; Why should we believe when A: It really seems he/she/it/them does/do not exist?</p><p>B: You cannot show neither through reason nor through empirical data that the existence of a god is likely.</p><p>The statement "Okay, you say god is real. Can you show us why we should believe the same?" does not imply denial. We are not denying or rejecting god or gods. We don't believe they exist, and the data appears to support that position. </p><p></p><p>And you can claim he is till your face turns blue. That does not make it so either.</p><p></p><p>No. I have experienced that holy spirit jazz, and while it is possible that the holy spirit is real and powerful and so on. It is not the most likely explanation. It is possible, and indeed it is regularly done, to put oneself into a trance by way of will or a plethora or arbitrary rituals; Sane or not, one can induce many such experiences by perfectly natural psychological methods. And plenty of religious people from all kinds of religions <em>do</em>.</p><p></p><p>Again, no. Been there also. Seen demon possessed people rock back and fprth and spew foam and so on and so forth. Of course said "demon possessed" personages were also survivors of severe abuse and trauma; They were really deeply scarred psychologically. So; More likely explanations exist than demons and trolls. It's just an explanation people attach to what they do not understand.</p><p></p><p>Only if you're wrong about your god. Would he really damn people for not believing in something that is totally counterintuitive, is in fact contradicted by the very creation he is said to have created? Not for what one has done, a horrible murderer and rapist will be saved and go straight to eternal reward if he just says a few words before he dies. Hitler, if he died a christian man - will be saved. If M. Gandhi died an unbeliever he would be damned. Not for deeds. Not for purity of heart. Not for loving or hating others. No. Just for saying or not saying a few words and joining your gang.</p><p>Not even for rejecting him/her/it. Just for not believing something someone told you one time without bringing any justification apart from this fear mongery.</p><p>That is neither loving nor just. So, if your god is loving and just as you claim, then we need not fear. </p><p> This deity is also supposedly omniscient. Which means he knows us all better than we know ourselves. This means he knows we (most of us) try our best. Want to do right and good by others, and contribute to making this world a better place. He will also know that our unbelief is not an act of rebellion, but an honest call because of the data available to us. If he despite all this happens to be real and still condemns me to eternal damnation that would be okay. That kind of being is not someone I would want to be around. </p><p></p><p>I don't have a whole lot of fear on that point, KWC. I do not really respond well to empty (or non-empty) threats like this random-administration-of-eternal-hellfire-and-brimstone fearmongery you guys have got going on here.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="TheReasoner, post: 62550582, member: 104245"] Can you show one example where supernaturalists have been right in their predictions? ONE testable example? Just[I] one[/I]? Only thing is, you appear to claim that's when things started. We know for a fact that is not true. So we have a case here where you and your brethren actively preach a known falsehood, and despite your position being thoroughly falsified you keep preaching it. Often to usually or in some cases darn near always without a touch of integrity, logical consistency or decency. I wonder why you believe as you do. you have to violate your own belief in order to believe what you do; You guys violate the ninth commandment unbelievably often. So the question I have is then; Do you REALLY believe? Because it does not seem that way. It really does not. Not when you must resort to deceit and dishonesty to maintain that faith. Few people here categorically deny that he exists. What IS said and asked is; Why should we believe when A: It really seems he/she/it/them does/do not exist? B: You cannot show neither through reason nor through empirical data that the existence of a god is likely. The statement "Okay, you say god is real. Can you show us why we should believe the same?" does not imply denial. We are not denying or rejecting god or gods. We don't believe they exist, and the data appears to support that position. And you can claim he is till your face turns blue. That does not make it so either. No. I have experienced that holy spirit jazz, and while it is possible that the holy spirit is real and powerful and so on. It is not the most likely explanation. It is possible, and indeed it is regularly done, to put oneself into a trance by way of will or a plethora or arbitrary rituals; Sane or not, one can induce many such experiences by perfectly natural psychological methods. And plenty of religious people from all kinds of religions [I]do[/I]. Again, no. Been there also. Seen demon possessed people rock back and fprth and spew foam and so on and so forth. Of course said "demon possessed" personages were also survivors of severe abuse and trauma; They were really deeply scarred psychologically. So; More likely explanations exist than demons and trolls. It's just an explanation people attach to what they do not understand. Only if you're wrong about your god. Would he really damn people for not believing in something that is totally counterintuitive, is in fact contradicted by the very creation he is said to have created? Not for what one has done, a horrible murderer and rapist will be saved and go straight to eternal reward if he just says a few words before he dies. Hitler, if he died a christian man - will be saved. If M. Gandhi died an unbeliever he would be damned. Not for deeds. Not for purity of heart. Not for loving or hating others. No. Just for saying or not saying a few words and joining your gang. Not even for rejecting him/her/it. Just for not believing something someone told you one time without bringing any justification apart from this fear mongery. That is neither loving nor just. So, if your god is loving and just as you claim, then we need not fear. This deity is also supposedly omniscient. Which means he knows us all better than we know ourselves. This means he knows we (most of us) try our best. Want to do right and good by others, and contribute to making this world a better place. He will also know that our unbelief is not an act of rebellion, but an honest call because of the data available to us. If he despite all this happens to be real and still condemns me to eternal damnation that would be okay. That kind of being is not someone I would want to be around. I don't have a whole lot of fear on that point, KWC. I do not really respond well to empty (or non-empty) threats like this random-administration-of-eternal-hellfire-and-brimstone fearmongery you guys have got going on here. [/QUOTE]
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Why do creationists insist that the theory of evolution is inherently atheistic?
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