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that was a cultural factor that they thought the sun moved not the earth in genesis, how could you pull evolution out of the texts?
What is especially suspicious about TEs is their wanton ridicule of Creation even though it's essential doctrine.
What is even more telling is they don't have a theology, a doctrinal position or even an intelligent opinion regarding the Scriptures as redemptive history.
These latest exchanges on this thread have been quite revealing. Clearly those creationists who so disdain theistic evolutionists haven't the slightest idea what theistic evolutionists believe. (Of course, they also have no idea what The Theory of Evolution is about---but we already knew that.)
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Stephen H. Roberts wrote the following, oft-quoted, rather ridiculous statement:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours"
So I will use his "logic" to craft the following:
"I contend that a bachelor and a monogamous happily-married man BOTH reject marriage. The bachelor simply believes in being married to one fewer wife than does the average married man. When you understand why the married man rejects 99.9999999% of all marriage candidates, you will understand why the bachelor dismisses marriage."
Yes. Quite profound. (Sorry, Mr. Roberts. A man who is a monotheist is not an atheist. Colossal fail.)
These latest exchanges on this thread have been quite revealing. Clearly those creationists who so disdain theistic evolutionists haven't the slightest idea what theistic evolutionists believe. (Of course, they also have no idea what The Theory of Evolution is about---but we already knew that.)
i quoted a piece of writing by the american science association and what they believe so I'm pretty sure that's what they believe
that argues what genesis says that man was made on the sixth day from the dust with God breathing life into him
However, TE is at least consistent with the evidence found in the creation itself while creationism is not. It's the old Galileo vs. The Roman Catholic Church battle all over again. It is the hubris of creationists vs. reality. Guess who is going to win?
Perhaps those who care about the truth?
What's remarkable about Mark is that he has been told over and over again, over a period of years, that what he's just written is his own perverse fantasy and does not represent the actual beliefs of most theistic evolutionists, yet that information just rolls off his mind like water off a duck. He's been told countless times that virtually all of us accept the doctrine of creation, but simply disagree with literalist readings of the Bible about how God created. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what we actually think or believe; it'e more important for him to hold onto his fantasy version of his opponents than it is to deal with the real people with their real beliefs.Theistic evolutionists must be Creationists in order to be Christians and they know that. They may well be believers, they could just as easily be atheists in sheep's clothing. What is especially suspicious about TEs is their wanton ridicule of Creation even though it's essential doctrine. What is even more telling is they don't have a theology, a doctrinal position or even an intelligent opinion regarding the Scriptures as redemptive history.
They're neither, Mark. They're nothing at all -- they're cartoon characters you made up. Maybe someday you'll turn off the cartoons and start dealing with the real people.Are they 'brothers and sisters' in Christ? Well, maybe, but if they are they must be Creationists.
Mock is cheap.I have mocked YECs,
Mock is cheap.
What's remarkable about Mark is that he has been told over and over again, over a period of years, that what he's just written is his own perverse fantasy and does not represent the actual beliefs of most theistic evolutionists, yet that information just rolls off his mind like water off a duck.
He's been told countless times that virtually all of us accept the doctrine of creation, but simply disagree with literalist readings of the Bible about how God created. He doesn't care. He doesn't care what we actually think or believe; it'e more important for him to hold onto his fantasy version of his opponents than it is to deal with the real people with their real beliefs.
They're neither, Mark. They're nothing at all -- they're cartoon characters you made up. Maybe someday you'll turn off the cartoons and start dealing with the real people.
However, TE is at least consistent with the evidence found in the creation itself while creationism is not. It's the old Galileo vs. The Roman Catholic Church battle all over again. It is the hubris of creationists vs. reality. Guess who is going to win?
I have mocked YECs, but that involves mocking the crazy ideas and arguments they make to justify their position, which are nowhere in the scriptures. For example, water from the Flood making craters on the moon, the laws of physics completely changing to hide all evidence of the Flood and antediluvian times, etc.
Mock is cheap.
No it is not. It may be foundational to your american aberration. Most of the christian world has never read the bible the way you insist is a must. So given that your fundamentalism is a minority position, loud as most crazy conspiracy theories are, disproven as a worldview, and that your means of arguing for it are not logically consistant but rather different logical fallacies bundled together in a gordian knot it is far more likely that you need psychological attention than that you're right and the universe is wrong. Either you're wrong in your characterization of christianity or - if I am wrong - christianity can be categorically dismissed as superstition just like the old pantheons. What's not an option is that somehow all scientists are together in a wild anti-religious conspiracy to cover up reality by working together across the globe for 150+ years and managing to hide the real truth from the masses despite yearly recruitment from all layers of society and all religions on all continents (save antarctica). Come on, what you're suggesting is quite literally insane. And no, Mark. Posting circular reasoning "founded" on your understanding of bible verses is not enough to change everything about this issue. You believe God made you. With brains and all. So why do you insist on not using your brains?Creationism is foundational to Christian theism, one of the few prerequisites for believing the Gospel, the other being conviction of sin. Darwinian evolution denies both in a feeble and vain attempt to usurp God as the primary mover.
No. It is called socialization. Everyone is exposed to the idea during their life. Nothing supernatural about that.For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Romans 1:20,21)
As many times as I have debated atheists and agnostics I have yet to have one demand a definition for God. There is a simple reason for this, they already know about God, it's called natural revelation.
Which is why when we talk about the Scriptures, some of us actually cite the Scriptures.I have mocked YECs, but that involves mocking the crazy ideas and arguments they make to justify their position, which are nowhere in the scriptures.
Wow, that's a new one.For example, water from the Flood making craters on the moon,
The laws of physics don't apply to God. If He wanted to reverse the rotation of the earth today, no force that exists could preclude it.the laws of physics completely changing to hide all evidence of the Flood and antediluvian times, etc.
So true. When they mention the Scriptures it is snippets taken out of context. For example, they might say that when God breathed into the dust that made Adam it began a process of abiogenesis by which over millions of years Adam became man. They ignore the fact that Adam was talking with God on the day he was created.I have yet to see any theistic evolutionist that could do a sound exposition of any text in Scripture. Devoid of theological insight they ridicule anyone who would take the Genesis account as an historical narrative, never mind the fact that, that's exactly what it is.
Moreover, when they call the flood a myth they are calling Jesus a liar, because He specifially mentioned Noah and the flood. Beyond that, the authors of the Bible leave no doubt that it is the inspired word of God.You insist on arguing against Creationism and then claim to believe God created all things. What did God create because not a single theistic evolutionist will a single act of God creating anything, God doesn't even get credit for intelligently designing the universe, let alone creating it.
Absolutely. As such, if they believe that, then they believe that most of the Bible is a lie. If it's 80% lies, why believe ANY of it? I'm not sure they do. I think they are only pretending. You can't support two mutually exclusive belief systems unless you don;t really understand either one.I know it for what it is, it's one long argument against Creationism with no discernible difference from the Darwinian a priori assumption of universal common descent.
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