Why Do Christians Want Creationism Taught In Public Schools?

placebo2 said:

Why do Christians want creationism taught in public schools? Or "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Or, "In God We Trust" on currency? What purpose do the above serve? How do the above benefit the country?

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How about acknowledging the Creator who created us, who gives us every breath, every heartbeat, before Whom we will one day stand and be judged or give an account for how we have spent every moment we have spent alive, every dollar we have received, every gift we have received.

How about - because it is the TRUTH.

ForsakeAll2FollowJesus said:

How about acknowledging the Creator who created us, who gives us every breath, every heartbeat, before Whom we will one day stand and be judged or give an account for how we have spent every moment we have spent alive, every dollar we have received, every gift we have received.

How about - because it is the TRUTH.

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I'm glad this was posted. Sometimes in trying so hard to argue points in strict logical ways, point out specific weaknesses in reason and so forth, I forget the absolute violence that has been done in this country to our freedom of religion and how while the freedom of speech has been expanded to include filth and pornography, freedom of religious expression has been cut back such that people can't pray together over any intercom owned by the state.

People actually do have a right to completely BELIEVE the religion they belong to, up to and including the idea that if the nation behaves itself in Godly ways it will go better for the nation. The state is not supposed to purposefully distance itself from the values of its citizens just for the sake of not establishing a religion. Doing so completely disenfranchises the populace.

What use is the vote if the only thing that can be legislated is immorality?

because they pretend to tell us things about the past that can never truly be put to any test

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I would seriously recomend studying the big bang and evolution more, as even a basic study would show you that they can and have been put to many tests. If you really want to claim that historical science is a pseudo science then you are also suggesting that forensics is a pseudo science as well.
www.talkorigins.org
You can go there and read about all the tests that evolution has been put through. Predictions that it has made, etc.

The assumption is necessary for either theory.

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Nope.
Haven't we already gone over this? Science is based on agnostic naturalistic ideas. In other words, science can only study nature, and it does not make any claims about God.

How about acknowledging the Creator who created us...

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And what is the point having the government acknowledge this?
How would you feel if the government acknowledge the Gods that created us?

Arikay said:

And what is the point having the government acknowledge this?
How would you feel if the government acknowledge the Gods that created us?

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The original question was:
Quote: Originally Posted by: placebo2 Why do Christians want creationism taught in public schools? Or "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Or, "In God We Trust" on currency? What purpose do the above serve? How do the above benefit the country?


This great country was founded on Christian principles. The founders came here to be able to worship God without being persecuted. They would be horrified to see what they risked their lives for (freedom to worship God in this country) is now being totally attacked.

We want to teach creationism because it is the TRUTH. We want "Under God" in the Pledge - to remind us that we ARE under God. He made us and is the King over us. We want "In God we Trust" on currency - to remind us to Trust God not money.

They benefit our country because God blesses those who serve Him. Look at how America rose to be the most powerful country in the world! God is in control of that.

If this country continues to reject God and His Truths - He will take His protection and blessing away and this country will no longer be the great country it is.

We are to Acknowledge God in all our ways and lean not in our own understanding.

Yet you didn't answer my question, would you have a problem with it saying "Under Gods" ?

The founders came here to be able to worship God without being persecuted. They would be horrified to see what they risked their lives for (freedom to worship God in this country) is now being totally attacked.

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How exactly is removing two statements that the founders never put there (remember, both are 20th century additions) damaging someone's freedom to worship God?

We want to teach creationism because it is the TRUTH.

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Nope, and no matter how many times you say it, won't make it TRUTH, and no, making it CAPS wont change that either.

We want "Under God" in the Pledge - to remind us that we ARE under God. He made us and is the King over us. We want "In God we Trust" on currency - to remind us to Trust God not money.

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So are you saying that without those two slogans, peoples faith in God would just fall apart. Wow, if so you must not put much faith in other peoples ability to keep the faith.

I mean, if people need God in the pledge to remember he is there, or God on our money to remember to trust him not money, these people must have a very weak faith.

They benefit our country because God blesses those who serve Him. Look at how America rose to be the most powerful country in the world! God is in control of that.

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God is responsible for supporting the slaves that helped build the country?
God is responsible for the murdering of the native american people?
I guess I should add another reason not to believe in your God then.

Arikay said:

Nope, and no matter how many times you say it, won't make it TRUTH, and no, making it CAPS wont change that either.

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It is TRUTH - that no one can change. It does not matter what you think about it. It does not matter if the whole world decides that God did not create the world. He did - and that will never change.

There is coming a day of judgement, when you will stand before your Creator. What will you tell Him then? Oops, guess I was wrong? It will be too late to join His side then, you must choose while you are alive on earth. There are only two sides. God's and Satan's. The whole world is automatically born on satan's side because of Adam's sin. If you do not choose to change sides by accepting God as Lord and Savior while you are alive, you will not get to spend eternity with Him in heaven. You will die on satan's side. God said there is only one way to heaven. Jesus is the Way.
God is perfectly just. He said that if one sins, they must die. But He is also love. He didn't want us all to die - so He made a way for us to change sides. The way to change sides is to believe that Jesus died in your place, and came back to life as a sign that God accepted this as payment for your sins. May the Holy Spirit convict your heart to receive His truth right now.

There is coming a day of judgement, when you will stand before your Creator. What will you tell Him then? Oops, guess I was wrong? It will be too late to join His side then, you must choose while you are alive on earth.

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I have one question. Is your faith in the Risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ dependent upon the creation story in Genesis?

Arikay said:

I would seriously recomend studying the big bang and evolution more, as even a basic study would show you that they can and have been put to many tests. If you really want to claim that historical science is a pseudo science then you are also suggesting that forensics is a pseudo science as well.

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I couldn't tell you how many times I have read this silly accusation. Please address the things I have said rather than pretending I have not read anything about the subject. I am speaking specifically of parts of the theories that cannot be tested due to being remote in time, and the problems of science in addressing consciousness and free will, and even the concept of formally undecideable principles in mathematics and what that implies for science in general and theories such as Big Band and evolution as the origin of species particularly.

If you cannot directly address my concerns, please do not address your posts to me. If you want to discuss something with me, please address my concerns.

Arikay said:

Haven't we already gone over this? Science is based on agnostic naturalistic ideas. In other words, science can only study nature, and it does not make any claims about God.

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Yes, we have gone over this repeatedly because you refuse to address the concern I have stated. No one is saying that 'science' makes statements about God, but the Big Bang and evolution as the origin of species both do make presuppositions about the existence or nature of God and therefore need to be treated as such by public schools.

Arikay said:

And what is the point having the government acknowledge this?
How would you feel if the government acknowledge the Gods that created us?

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I would feel very much as I feel now being forbidden, even in communities where I and my fellow Christians are the vast majority, of being forbidden to say a prayer for the safety of our kids playing football before the game over an intercom - sad but resigned to the hate of this world towards Christ.

Forsake:
And you still haven't answered my question.

It is TRUTH - that no one can change. It does not matter what you think about it. It does not matter if the whole world decides that God did not create the world. He did - and that will never change.

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This "truth" has been falsified for almost 200 years now.
I think you are under the mistaken idea that evolution = atheism. That is wrong, many christians believe that God created using evolution (just like most people believe that God creates snowflakes through crystallization) that doesn't mean they don't believe God created, the only differ in the belief of How he created.

I hear a lot of preaching and very little to support your statements.


Shane:

I am speaking specifically of parts of the theories that cannot be tested due to being remote in time,

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And those are?

and the problems of science in addressing consciousness and free will,

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And what are those problems?
So far you keep repeating "consciousness and will" but I don't understand your argument about them.

No one is saying that 'science' makes statements about God, but the Big Bang and evolution as the origin of species both do make presuppositions about the existence or nature of God and therefore need to be treated as such by public schools.

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So we can be clear, what parts of evolution and the big bang make presuppositions about the existence and nature of God? Please provide a more detailed explanation than "The say God doesn't exist."

I would feel very much as I feel now being forbidden, even in communities where I and my fellow Christians are the vast majority, of being forbidden to say a prayer for the safety of our kids playing football before the game over an intercom.

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Do you mean to say that if you lived in a community that was majority wiccan, and you had a child in school you would support the school body in electing someone to speak for the school and ask the God and Goddess protection over those who play football in a wiccan ritual?

Did you know that the people who brought that prayer case to the courts were Mormon and Catholic?

Shane Roach said:

I would feel very much as I feel now being forbidden, even in communities where I and my fellow Christians are the vast majority, of being forbidden to say a prayer for the safety of our kids playing football before the game over an intercom - sad but resigned to the hate of this world towards Christ.

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I'm not even going to address the creation issue anymore, it trully goes nowhere, but I think this statement is quite revealing.

Say a prayer over an intercom... Why would you want to do such a thing? Can you not pray to yourself? Can you not pray to yourselves in small groups? Does prayer over the intercom strengthen it?

Why must you do something in a manner that could offend people when it can be done just as easily and effectively a different manner? It's statements like these that actually make atheists think that prayer in school and public places is an attempt to convert or establish a certain religion.

Shane Roach said:

The assumption is necessary for either theory.

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I completely, totally, 100% disagree... but okay.

AngelusSax said:

I have one question. Is your faith in the Risen Lord and Savior Jesus Christ dependent upon the creation story in Genesis?

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100% - if God (that includes Jesus) did not create the world as He said in Genesis (and other parts of the Bible), then He is a liar - and unworthy and unable to be Lord and Savior.

But God is worthy. God can never lie. Praise and glory to the Lord!

Arikay said:

How would you feel if the government acknowledge the Gods that created us?

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Sorry, Arikay, i misread your question. I did not see the "s" at the end of God.

The Bible says "There is only one True God". So there is only one God that created us, only one God that should be worshipped. All other "gods" are false gods - who had nothing to do with creating us - so it would be a lie to say there are gods that created us.

And that's basically what other religions feel about the government pointing towards the the christian God, that it is a lie.

The best idea for the government is to not sponsor any religion and let it's population decide and pray for itself. I would assume the population is smart enough to be able to worship and trust God without needing the governments slogans.

On a side, I do find it interesting that many people who support these slogans claim to want to go back to what the founding fathers "really" wanted america to be like, but are fine with certain 20th century additions.

ForsakeAll2FollowJesus said:

Sorry, Arikay, i misread your question. I did not see the "s" at the end of God.

The Bible says "There is only one True God". So there is only one God that created us, only one God that should be worshipped. All other "gods" are false gods - who had nothing to do with creating us - so it would be a lie to say there are gods that created us.

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I think the simple reason why Christians want Creation to be taught in public schools is because we believe it is true. Would you want your kid learning about something you thought was false? Would you want your tax dollars to go towards teaching your child a false theory? Many people say to send your child to a private Christian school if you feel that way. But many Christians can't afford private schools. I think it's only fair that Christian parents shouldn't have to pay taxes for public schools that are teaching the kids things that Christians think are false.

I think it's only fair that Christian parents shouldn't have to pay taxes for public schools that are teaching the kids things that Christians think are false.

Does that mean its fair that (given non-christian religion or atheist) parents shouldn't have to pay taxes for public schools that are teaching the kids things that (given non-christian religion or atheists) think are false?

I'm not sure. I was never taught about the evolution theory until I was in 8th grade, so that was when I was old enough to know it wasn't true. Maybe schools should just wait until high school to teach the kids the evolution theory, so the Christian kids will be old enough to know it's false. Either that, or offer a Creation course and an evolution course, and allow each student to choose one for himself.

So, if I believe something is true, that means it should be taught in school?
I guess then we should teach that man may or may not have landed on the moon, aliens may or may not be experimenting on us the earth may or may not revolve around the sun, etc.
Where does it end?

So you are suggesting that our public schools systems should become even more money strained and slip lower down the list compared to other nations because you disagree with current science.
I think it's only fair that christians still pay for the large amount of public school that has nothing to do with teaching things they think are false.

I find it sad that by the 8th grade you already "knew" that evolution, a very complicated subject, is not true. I would recomend doing some non creationist research into what you think you know, but that's slightly off topic.

In my high school, students were allowed to get a waiver to get out of the evolution section of biology class and do other work.

AliveInChrist said:

I'm not sure. I was never taught about the evolution theory until I was in 8th grade, so that was when I was old enough to know it wasn't true. Maybe schools should just wait until high school to teach the kids the evolution theory, so the Christian kids will be old enough to know it's false. Either that, or offer a Creation course and an evolution course, and allow each student to choose one for himself.

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Arikay said:

And that's basically what other religions feel about the government pointing towards the the christian God, that it is a lie.

The best idea for the government is to not sponsor any religion and let it's population decide and pray for itself. I would assume the population is smart enough to be able to worship and trust God without needing the governments slogans.

On a side, I do find it interesting that many people who support these slogans claim to want to go back to what the founding fathers "really" wanted america to be like, but are fine with certain 20th century additions.

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What are the 20th century additions?

The first American public school textbooks were Bibles! They taught Creation in the first public schools. How have we fallen so far?

The founding fathers prayed and went to church. They did not want the state to be able to interfere in the church. That was the point, not the other way around.

We put pictures up of people we love, we keep the letters and notes they write us. It shows our love and dedication to the person. The same with God - we read His letter to us (the Bible) and we like to see His name written everywhere! It is not "needed", but it pleases God when we glorify Him and trust Him alone and let other people know this. It also shows our love for Him.

Sorry, but this country was founded on GOD. Christians should be able to speak, see and hear His Truth everywhere. Other people can choose who/what they want to worship, but they should not be able to silence us. Can you imagine moving to a Moslem country and telling the government they have to take out all their "religious" beliefs because you are offended...... hmmm.

We do not persecute non-believers, we are to show them love. But we should not have to shut down our beliefs, our teachings, because someone comes along that is offended. America was to be a Christian nation. We should be allowed to have our beliefs taught to our children and to our country. People are free to accept or reject these beliefs. They are not being forced. If someone does not want to hear the Truth, they are the ones who can find somewhere else to go where they can hear what they want to hear. But we are not to compromise the Truth. People have a right to worship anything, that is the same choice God gives them. But God's followers are to stand for His Truth and not allow false teachings/false gods to penetrate their midst.


If you saw or heard people inside a burning house - would you try to rescue them? Every day millions of people die, without choosing to follow Jesus, thereby sealing their destiny in hell. This is only increasing as society condemns Christians and promotes false gods. We are to speak God's truth every chance we can - Jesus is the only Way to heaven. One sin keeps us out of heaven. Jesus died in our place, and by trusting in Him as Lord and Savior our eternal home changes from hell to heaven. God allows everyone the opportunity to choose for themselves. Choose today, you may not be here tomorrow. You can know for sure where you will spend eternity - right now - simply by trusting Jesus as Lord and Savior.