Why do certain people go to heaven?

[Matty1919]

What I mean is psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate.

 

[ISeeClearly]

Anyone can give their life to Christ if they are given the oppurtunity. God has made us just the way that we are, and there is nothing stopping us from being saved but ourselves (our pride, self conciousness etc).
God's will is that none will perish, and he will use the drawing power of the Holy Spirit to prompt us into a relationship with Him.

 

[sonofgodjose]

I say that, eventually, everyone goes to heaven.

 

[Adstar]

The ability to overcome self centered pride is essential. Also trusting God is also essential. Learning meekness towards God is a good thing.

Environment It seems that people from all environments come to Believe God. From child abuse victims to well brought up people, from people subjected to poverty and loss to people brought up in affluence. Often a life changing experience can set one on a course seeking God sometimes just curiosity leads people to discover God.

I have talked to people from every walk of like, from many different cultures who have come to accept Jesus as Messiah. There does not seem to be a specific God believing conductive environment out there.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[calidog]

What I mean is psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate.

True, we are all different in those respects, and many of us have these qualities in common. What it comes down to is rebelion. Some of us are more rebelious than others. We try to make it complicated with our learned education and sciences of the mind, philosophy, etc. But when it comes down to who is more likely to put their faith in Christ and be saved, it's entirely Christ Who doe's it all. He is the "Author and finisher of our faith". Our part is simply to give in to Him. Some take longer than others. Don't let the fact that God has predestined us to be with Him throw you off.

 

[Merlin]

Genetics is not an issue.
Genetics defines how protiens are built.

As for salvation, it's about realising that there is something greater than yourself. Something external.
When a person humbles themself and seeks after that which is outside of self, then God reveals Himself to that person.

 

[hlaltimus]

What I mean is psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate.

This would be true if accepting Christ depended entirely upon human agency alone, but that is not the case. Yes, human agency is essential and important in order to conversion and final glorification in heaven, but the human agency is a secondary agency and owes it's very existence to God's primary agency. Now if this were true, then genetics or environment will not lock anyone out of Christ because while a person's disposition will favor or disfavor an acceptance of Christ, that very disposition is something which God may sovereignly alter in opposition to circumstances. One of the greatest revivals that has ever graced the Church era was the great Methodist revival of the 1600's under the Wesley's and Whitefield. All biographers seem to agree though that the English people, in point of religious interest, were at an all time low then. Why the revival? If breeding and circumstances were the only considerations, one would think that this would have been the least likely time in which to find a revival but that was not the case. The truth is, God reserves the divine privilege or prerogative to change our hearts and I am sure glad that He does. I can't imagine how so many derelict disasters were ever saved out of the famous Pacific Gardens Rescue Mission without such an explanation for cause. Disposition is important, but disposition is just another finite orb whirling around in God's universe and it too is subjuct to His rule.
Lack of family advantage will not lock you out if you really want Him.

 

[Matty1919]

I say that, eventually, everyone goes to heaven.

Well I wish you were God but there's a nothing (in the Bible) to support your comforting wish. They go to hell for the rest of eternity according to God and unbelievable amount of pain and suffering is unleashed on them (I'm not exaturating its true ). It seems since even I've been going to church as a kid I remember standards, beliefs and rules bending as society does. For instance we don't stone adulterous women any more (funny how guys in the past didn't have to worry about it). I know that was a crude example but now Christians are even accepting evolution, some homosexual marriage and now there's talk of not taking parts of the Bible literally and some saying we all will go to heaven.

Anyone can give their life to Christ if they are given the oppurtunity. God has made us just the way that we are, and there is nothing stopping us from being saved but ourselves (our pride, self conciousness etc).
God's will is that none will perish, and he will use the drawing power of the Holy Spirit to prompt us into a relationship with Him.

Not every one has an opportunity to be properly exposed to christianity or exposed at all due to location. Also like I said characteristics such as pride are all effected by genetics and your enviroment. But since you say differently and that God made us the way we are how can we control that? Only he can.



For self consciousness you have to find what affects your consciousness. If there is something how can you initially control it? Or are we born with a unique kind of consciousness? If so how is that fair? If not then what would even make us different besides genetics and where were born? This would bring us back to square one and the issue of consciousness would be obsolete.



So when someone is prompted to have a relationship with God by the Holy Spirit, who gets prompted? Do some people get prompted more? How is that fair? I know God or a Prohet says that you should be able to sense there is a God by the trees and nature but what about people who sense that but follow another religion that still has a Creator and fits the criteria for that statement. We end up calling them pagans or people who worship false Gods.

The ability to overcome self centered pride is essential. Also trusting God is also essential. Learning meekness towards God is a good thing.

Environment It seems that people from all environments come to Believe God. From child abuse victims to well brought up people, from people subjected to poverty and loss to people brought up in affluence. Often a life changing experience can set one on a course seeking God sometimes just curiosity leads people to discover God.

I have talked to people from every walk of like, from many different cultures who have come to accept Jesus as Messiah. There does not seem to be a specific God believing conductive environment out there.

Yeah that's the basic answer. But you can't choose your personality which means people can't have control.



For every story you hear about someone overcoming their enviroment or having a life changing inceident and changing their personality and accepting God there are millions or billions that don't or have no chance to.

True, we are all different in those respects, and many of us have these qualities in common. What it comes down to is rebelion. Some of us are more rebelious than others. We try to make it complicated with our learned education and sciences of the mind, philosophy, etc. But when it comes down to who is more likely to put their faith in Christ and be saved, it's entirely Christ Who doe's it all. He is the "Author and finisher of our faith". Our part is simply to give in to Him. Some take longer than others. Don't let the fact that God has predestined us to be with Him throw you off.

How is that fair or just



Christianity is basic about creation and salvation right? Well the world is complicated and the thought of enternity in heaven is mind boggling so these complicated subjects like science of the mind and philosophy will undoubtably rise. These are MY questions and education has nothing to do with it, years of exposure (well I am only 19 but it seems like awhile to me) to Christianity caused these questions.



And your statement about "Author and finisher of our faith" solidifies my point of our lack of control.

Genetics is not an issue.
Genetics defines how protiens are built.

Well then hereditary personality traits.

Sorry for all the weird questions.
Thanks to everyone who responded I'll bless/rep you or whatever it is called. Sorry I didn't respond to the last post I am tired and didn't see any new answers, maybe I'll respond later. Please ANYONE that can try to give me some answers that would be awsome

thanks,
Matt

 

[thepianist]

Anyone can give their life to Christ if they are given the oppurtunity. God has made us just the way that we are, and there is nothing stopping us from being saved but ourselves (our pride, self conciousness etc).
God's will is that none will perish, and he will use the drawing power of the Holy Spirit to prompt us into a relationship with Him.

Amen! God gave each human being free will and with it comes the ability to either accept or reject Jesus Christ. You are in my prayers, friend.

 

[calidog]

A: your enviroment and B: genetics right?
B: included in our genetics is sin
A: God brings into our invironment the "gospel"
Some might say "everyone doe'snt get a chance to hear the gospel". We don't actually know that. Nevertheless, God indicates (in His word) we will be judged fairly

 

[Phospho]

What I mean is psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate.

Hey Matty, how are you doing? Fine I hope.

The answers that you have come up with to your own question seem to have come from some misunderstandings. There are some that teach a predetermination that says we were determined by God from our very birth to either hell or heaven, and this is not scriptural. What scripture states is that God loves all of us, and that He desires all of us to go to heaven. God will not force His will onl anyone, but when we reach a certain point in our lives He will ratify what we have chosen, like when He hardened Pharoah's heart to not release the Israelites and give them freedom.

He did not make Pharoah decide what He decided to do, but He ratified his thoughts and intents, He does the same to us to certain extents...but grace was made available to us throught the cross like it never was before, and that ratified heart can be touched by that grace and melted into pliability to His Spirit.

No one has been destined for hell except satan and his followers...so what we have to do is make sure that we are not following him. Here is some insight: by not actively choosing to follow after God (in obedience), we ARE actively choosing to follow satan (in our disobedience).

Choose to follow after God today, you will never be sorry in spirit that you did.


Blessings!

 

[Matty1919]

A: your enviroment and B: genetics right?
B: included in our genetics is sin
A: God brings into our invironment the "gospel"
Some might say "everyone doe'snt get a chance to hear the gospel". We don't actually know that. Nevertheless, God indicates (in His word) we will be judged fairly

Yes but we can't control what genes we get.

There are millions of people that will live their entire life and die with out seeing a Bible or a hearing Christian. If they feel spirtually prompted like I said they make their own religon up and like I said are condemd by us.

If God will judge fairly to us then nobody would go to Hell (or maybe Heaven for that matter) since he is only judging what he made. Why should we pay for his mistakes? There is no possible way he could judge fairly unless he judged us all the same.

God will not force His will onl anyone

Saying "choose me or you go and burn for ever" isn't much of a choice.

 

[pinkieposies]

Yes but we can't control what genes we get.

This is true, we cannot choose our genes or our environment {God does that}, but it has nothing to do with whether or not we are saved.

There are millions of people that will live their entire life and die with out seeing a Bible or a hearing Christian. If they feel spirtually prompted like I said they make their own religon up and like I said are condemd by us.

God created in man a desire for Him, which is why we are different than animals, and which is why people who have not ever heard God's word still seek to connect with divinity and create their own religions. And it's true that those people will be condemned to hell, but that's why God has called us to go unto all the world and spread the knowledge of His Word, and share the good news of the gospel; So he might work His glory through us and bring those people to Christ {Christ being the only thing that ensures our salvation}.

If God will judge fairly to us then nobody would go to Hell (or maybe Heaven for that matter) since he is only judging what he made. Why should we pay for his mistakes? There is no possible way he could judge fairly unless he judged us all the same.

God does judge fairly. That is why those who continue to live in sin are condemned. And you are right that it would be just if He would just condemn all of us, since we are all dead in sin before we are recieved in Christ. This is because we have inherited the sinful nature of Adam from the fall in the garden; None are without sin, they are as much our mistakes as Adam's. But God is also merciful. Which is why those that He has called to Him will be saved, and this sinful nature is removed far from us in Christ {That is what Christ's death was all about!}. We cannot completely understand why He has done this for us, or why some are saved and not others, but it is certain that God is just, and it is certain that God is merciful. This is not a contridiction, it is just one of the wonderful mysteries of God.

Saying "choose me or you go and burn for ever" isn't much of a choice.

Well I've never seen that verse in the Bible , but it isn't about a choice. We choose God because the Holy Spirit has worked in us and in our lives in a way that eventually brings us to Him of HIS own good pleasure and love. Not because we chose it. Sinful man could never choose to do good without God's grace.

Please keep the questions coming. It is not wrong to question what you don't understand; An inquisitive spirit one of the ways that God brings us to His truth.

God Bless,
Erin

 

[calidog]

God created in man a desire for Him, which is why we are different than animals, and which is why people who have not ever heard God's word still seek to connect with divinity and create their own religions. Erin

I agree with you on this (built in desire for God, or built in desire to know God). Can you think of any scriptural references. thanx

 

[calidog]

Saying "choose me or you go and burn for ever" isn't much of a choice.

Discover what God has to say. Read the first few chapters of Genesis and the Gospel of John.

 

[pinkieposies]

I agree with you on this (built in desire for God, or built in desire to know God). Can you think of any scriptural references. thanx

Well, honestly I'm at work right now, and I don't have a Bible with me. {I am here alot during my free time at work, so maybe I should start bringin' one! I really wish I did right now!}.

I could get back to you on that later. But my beliefs are basically based on the fact that man was ultimately created for God's glory, and His glory alone. We are compelled to seek Him, and serve Him; to praise Him and do the things He has called us to do {This is evident in the fact that all men know, to some degree, what is right and wrong, no matter where they are and whether or not they have heard the gospel}. Though held back by our fallen nature {without the work of God through the Holy Spirit}, God has placed in us a desire for spiritual fulfilment that can only be filled by the love of Christ. This is for His glory; It is not a virtue of our own because we are born wicked and sinful, but the Lord has given it to us to bring us closer to Him. Who could truly love the Lord as a mere puppet on a string?

God Bless,
Erin

 

[Tawny]

MOD HAT ON


Please remember that this is not a debate forum, please keep to just answering the OP's question, NOT debating each others opinions.

Thanks

Tawny
Team Love

MOD HAT OFF

 

[ccastellow]

I say that, eventually, everyone goes to heaven.

Then you don't believe in Hell?

 

[asianangel]

Quite simply an environment would not affect a person's salvation. I have known people brought up as Christians and yet became athiests...I was an athiest brought up in an environment which rejected God and his existence. Now I'm a Christian...

Now for another example...remember Adam and Eve? THEIR ENVIRONMENT WAS PERFECT! SINLESS! God gave them 1 rule to obey. 1!!! Sin still managed to enter their lives. I don't think genetics has anything to do with this...

 

[Zeena]

What I mean is psychlogically your characteristics (which will determine whether you accept christ or not) are determined by the most important factor A: your enviroment and B: genetics right? We cannot control to whom we are born so we therefore can't control A nor B right? So then how can God be fair or just by really predetermining our fate.

Every single person, besides Jesus, was and is born with a sinful nature..

Everyone has equal opportunity to believe on Jesus