Why do Calvinists....

GodsElect · Jan 10, 2007

What are you gonna say on that day of judgement?
"Lord have not I let you into my heart by my own WILL?"
"Have I not accepted you as my personal Lord and savior of my own WILL?"

and He will say "Your works in doing anything are like filthy rags!!! Depart from me you worker of evil!"

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

GodsElect said:
did you even read the story??? No he was not saved, He got cooked by the sun. I am done with you and so should everyone else in the forum. You just are soo proud! and do not see. You like to change stuff to best suit YOU and its clear.You didn't have to change my story, but you are PROUD and you did. Just as the word of God you have changed to your liking because it makes you feel better!

Okay. Thanks for your time. Put me on your ignor list.

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

GodsElect said:
What are you gonna say on that day of judgement?
"Lord have not I let you into my heart by my own WILL?"
"Have I not accepted you as my personal Lord and savior of my own WILL?"

and He will say "Your works in doing anything are like filthy rags!!! Depart from me you worker of evil!"

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name? 23 And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!

I know I shouldn't respond to this since you have decided to blow me off but I must. You are rather good at ignoring things people sy to you.

Anyway, on that day of judgement I will thank and praise God for loving me enough to send His son to die for my sins and rise from the dead so that I might have eternal life with Him. Any works that are credited to me will be because they came from my love of and obediance to God and no other source.

Reformationist · Jan 10, 2007

Brethren, it is clear that Boxmaker came to this, a non-debate forum, to enlighten us wayward Calvinists to the Gospel's true revelation about man's need for a Savior.

In reading statements like, "He [God] found me and threw a life preserver to me that landed right next to me. All I need to do is reach out and grasp that life preserver and my Father reels me in to a nice warm ship and His company" we should realize that this particular person does not believe salvation is truly of God. When one presumes to regulate God's ability, or plan, to rescue them by conditioning His act of redemption on whether they "reach out and grasp the life preserver," they reveal quite clearly that their hope is in themselves.

I encourage all of you to forego wasting any more time with one who is blinded to what God has done for His elect. We have all sought to show him his errors and he remains adamant in his need to revel in his own glory.

We should all leave this in the hands of God, for He alone can remove the scales from his eyes.

God bless

nill · Jan 10, 2007

I don't mean to pick on you, Boxmaker, but really, you know what you posted on your very first post on these message boards... ah, well, I see it's not there anymore. But I do remember very distinctly your "Hi, I'm New" message which included (unsuprisingly) a declaration of intent to, in a sense, "battle the evil Calvinism," as well as hoping to recruit others to join you. (I'm not so stupid as to not check your previous posts, so there's no escaping that one.) I can hardly believe, then, that you actually wanted to rationally discuss and learn Calvinism from Calvinists. If you've already come to the stage where you want to tear something down and persuade others to do the same, you're obviously past the stage of learning it, even if you've previously mislearned it.

Nevertheless, I must point out how ridiculous your statement is:

"Anyway, on that day of judgement I will thank and praise God for loving me enough to send His son to die for my sins and rise from the dead so that I might have eternal life with Him. Any works that are credited to me will be because they came from my love of and obediance to God and no other source." (emphasis mine)

Seriously, Boxmaker. Seriously.

cygnusx1 · Jan 10, 2007

Boxmaker said:
I am guessing that the Lord willed it because we did it! I thank God for it to because it was one of the best family vacations we have had in a while and it was desperatly needed.

the point is we don't need to guess.

It is written ;

James 4

13 Come now, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we shall go into such and such a town, spend a year there doing business, and make a profit"-- 14 you have no idea what your life will be like tomorrow. You are a puff of smoke that appears briefly and then disappears. 15 Instead you should say, "If the Lord wills it, we shall live to do this or that." 16 But now you are boasting in your arrogance. All such boasting is evil.

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

Reformationist said:
Brethren, it is clear that Boxmaker came to this, a non-debate forum, to enlighten us wayward Calvinists to the Gospel's true revelation about man's need for a Savior.

In reading statements like, "He [God] found me and threw a life preserver to me that landed right next to me. All I need to do is reach out and grasp that life preserver and my Father reels me in to a nice warm ship and His company" we should realize that this particular person does not believe salvation is truly of God. When one presumes to regulate God's ability, or plan, to rescue them by conditioning His act of redemption on whether they "reach out and grasp the life preserver," they reveal quite clearly that their hope is in themselves.

I encourage all of you to forego wasting any more time with one who is blinded to what God has done for His elect. We have all sought to show him his errors and he remains adamant in his need to revel in his own glory.

We should all leave this in the hands of God, for He alone can remove the scales from his eyes.

God bless

I never said nor implied that my hope, my salvation is in me. Without Jesus (the life preserver) I can do nothing and have no hope. In my analogy there was nothing I could do, i was utterly and completely hopeless. God came to me, provided the only means to salvation by His grace alone. As far as I can tell, the only real difference between us is that I believe that I must grasp the life preserver while you bleieve that God comes over and puts you hands around the life preserver. Aside from that, I don't see any difference in our core beliefs.

I also find it interesting how quickly some people are willing to decide that a person is not worth their time. A little challenge to your beliefs and within 100 posts I am cast out. I have been told I am not saved. I have been called a dog and swine. Have I made of the same accusations towards any of you? Have I questioned your salvation?

On another forum I have had many discussion with pegans, universalists, calvinists, satanists, mormans and many others. To say that their beliefs differ from mine is a great understatement. But I have never called them swine or dog or worthless and refused to talk to them. No matter what else they are, they are loved by God. God loved them enough to send His son to die for them. If God can use me to share the Gospel with them then I will be as patient with them as God requires.

Besides, I have learned a lot from this thread. One of the posters have been great teacher. Others have provided fuel for thought. Interestingly enough, on this non-debate forum, they have provided their information in exactly the same tenor that the OP used.

God blessings be with you all!

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

Neal said:
I don't mean to pick on you, Boxmaker, but really, you know what you posted on your very first post on these message boards... ah, well, I see it's not there anymore. But I do remember very distinctly your "Hi, I'm New" message which included (unsuprisingly) a declaration of intent to, in a sense, "battle the evil Calvinism," as well as hoping to recruit others to join you. (I'm not so stupid as to not check your previous posts, so there's no escaping that one.) I can hardly believe, then, that you actually wanted to rationally discuss and learn Calvinism from Calvinists. If you've already come to the stage where you want to tear something down and persuade others to do the same, you're obviously past the stage of learning it, even if you've previously mislearned it.

Nevertheless, I must point out how ridiculous your statement is:

"Anyway, on that day of judgement I will thank and praise God for loving me enough to send His son to die for my sins and rise from the dead so that I might have eternal life with Him. Any works that are credited to me will be because they came from my love of and obediance to God and no other source." (emphasis mine)

Seriously, Boxmaker. Seriously.

Ah yes. My welcome to the forum thread that was deleted. I have learned much since then. I am came itching for a fight and instead found (some) wisdom. Much to think and pray about.

Maybe I miss-stated the part you emphasised. By no other source I meant that my works are not motivated as an effort to avoid hell or to show the world how good a Christian I am. My works arise through Christ living in me and through me.

cygnusx1 · Jan 10, 2007

Boxmaker said:
Ah yes. My welcome to the forum thread that was deleted. I have learned much since then. I am came itching for a fight and instead found (some) wisdom. Much to think and pray about.

Maybe I miss-stated the part you emphasised. By no other source I meant that my works are not motivated as an effort to avoid hell or to show the world how good a Christian I am. My works arise through Christ living in me and through me.

I am curious why you came itching for a fight ....(you don't have to answer if you don't want to.)

GodsElect · Jan 10, 2007

Then what is YOUR interpretation of scripture when it says you were "DEAD in traspasses" and sin?

Can a Dead man do anything?

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

cygnusx1 said:
I am curious why you came itching for a fight ....(you don't have to answer if you don't want to.)

I must have been a really bad mood that day. Also, I find that when you challenge peoples core beliefs i learn more about what they are. It is surprising how many people don't know why they believe what they believe. When you push them on those issues it makes them examine what they are saying. Conversly, when people push back it forces me to evaluate what I believe. It forces me to go back to the Bible and study what it says. Did I miss something or did they? In an ideal world, we both learn.

On another forum I was invloved with a discussion with a calvinist who absolutly could not defend his beliefs. I was curious if that was true else where so I tested the theory. I found believers much better based in their beliefes here and learned from them.

Maybe not the best motives but there you have it.

Peace be with you.

cygnusx1 · Jan 10, 2007

GodsElect said:
Then what is YOUR interpretation of scripture when it says you were "DEAD in traspasses" and sin?

Can a Dead man do anything?

yes!!!

he can stink!!!!

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

GodsElect said:
Then what is YOUR interpretation of scripture when it says you were "DEAD in traspasses" and sin?

Can a Dead man do anything?

I mentioned it earlier. Spiritual death and physical death are two different things. When I was spiritually dead God was able to show me that Life spiritual Life was available to to me. A drowning man does not need to die to know that he needs help. Once a drowning man goes down for the last time then all hope is lost. As long as I am floating (physically alive) then God can save me (make me spiritually alive).

Romans 8:10
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

cygnusx1 · Jan 10, 2007

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those
who are perishing; but to us who are being saved it is
the power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18

Reformationist · Jan 10, 2007

Boxmaker said:
Once a drowning man goes down for the last time then all hope is lost.

And this is the root cause of why you butt against what the Bible explicitly teaches. It is not until man realizes that all hope is truly lost, a revelation that comes only when God reveals it to us by enlightening us to the gravity of our sin, will we see the depth of our need for God.

God bless

bradfordl · Jan 10, 2007

Conditional

AHA!

In the open view, you are responsible for your fate after death.

Double aha!

If I had not grabbed the life preserver I would be lost.

Box, you are evidently wrapped up in works righteousness. You attempt to whittle it down to as small a key as possible, because otherwise your incongruity to scripture would be too big to swallow, but it is still the key, and thus your savior.

You're having a grand old time baiting the more fiery spirits here, and that has been amusing, and somewhat beneficial to them so they can cut their teeth on their theology and learn to practice self-control. But I see that you really know better than all this, and may actually be seeing the truth dawning on the horizon. If so, you are wrestling with whether to stand and address it, or run to the comfort of self-salvation. My best advice would be to stand for awhile and consider. Other than that, I'm done with you. You have not answered my positions coherently; perhaps you're enjoying the fencing with others and I'm just interrupting. So take care, and may the Lord show you the entirety of His majesty and grace.

GodsElect · Jan 10, 2007

what did yall think of they analogy that I posted HA I thought it was pretty funny.

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

Reformationist said:
And this is the root cause of why you butt against what the Bible explicitly teaches. It is not until man realizes that all hope is truly lost, a revelation that comes only when God reveals it to us by enlightening us to the gravity of our sin, will we see the depth of our need for God.

God bless

In keeping with my analogy, at which point is all hope lost? Your floating in the middle of the ocean with nothing in sight. What if a storm looming on the horizon? What if you are exhausted and floating on your back because you just can't make your legs work any more? At which point is all hope lost? My thought is that most people would lose all hope long before they went down for the last time.

I'm sorry it is not a good analogy because I am using a purely physical condition to discribe something that takes place in the spirit. My point is that as long as you are alive physically, God can save you spiritually.

Boxmaker · Jan 10, 2007

bradfordl said:
AHA! Double aha!Box, you are evidently wrapped up in works righteousness. You attempt to whittle it down to as small a key as possible, because otherwise your incongruity to scripture would be too big to swallow, but it is still the key, and thus your savior.

You're having a grand old time baiting the more fiery spirits here, and that has been amusing, and somewhat beneficial to them so they can cut their teeth on their theology and learn to practice self-control. But I see that you really know better than all this, and may actually be seeing the truth dawning on the horizon. If so, you are wrestling with whether to stand and address it, or run to the comfort of self-salvation. My best advice would be to stand for awhile and consider. Other than that, I'm done with you. You have not answered my positions coherently; perhaps you're enjoying the fencing with others and I'm just interrupting. So take care, and may the Lord show you the entirety of His majesty and grace.

Which of your posts would you like a more coherent answer for?

GodsElect · Jan 10, 2007

what if your brain dead, but alive.

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