Why do Calvinists....

[Boxmaker]

Why do Calvinists insist that God is the direct author of all things evil? As I understand the belief, God is responsible for every action in a persons life. If true, every rape, every homosexual act, every murder, robery and every other act that is against the OT law was pre-programmed by God for His Glory.

Can you explain to me haw God making people break the laws He installed bring glory to Him?

 

[heymikey80]

Why do Calvinists insist that God is the direct author of all things evil? As I understand the belief, God is responsible for every action in a persons life. If true, every rape, every homosexual act, every murder, robery and every other act that is against the OT law was pre-programmed by God for His Glory.

Can you explain to me haw God making people break the laws He installed bring glory to Him?

Well, first, you don't understand the belief.

Calvinists actually insist that God is not the direct author of anything evil. Nor is God responsible for any evil action in a person's life.

neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. Westminster Confession, Ch. 3 Sec. 1

Calvinists definitely believe that every action (indeed, every thought) is predetermined by God, which is why God rules the world.

He's the First Cause for everything. He's not the responsible cause for everything.

In point of fact every belief in God's omnipotence or omniscience must somehow contend with these issues. If God knows someone He indirectly creates shall do evil, how is it that God is not responsible? And if God is omnipotent, why doesn't God keep that evil from occurring?

God does bring glory to Himself through the punishment of those who do evil, and for the corresponding mercy God shows toward those He saves.

 

[Boxmaker]

That is my question to you. If God predetermines that every action, andevery thought, how can He not be the responsible cause of every evil action? A rape begins with a thought. Murder begins with a thought. All of these thoughts are predetermined by God, therfore God predetermined that rapes and murder should occur. For His glory.

It makes no sense to me. If God is not, as you insist, responsible for evil, then He can't predetermine every thought and action. Then you have a contridiction with God predetermining every action and thought. Very quickly, your whole argument becomes circular, and goes nowhere.

It is also a hopeless message. Under Calvinism, you cannot know if you are saved are not. There is no way for you to know if you are elect or not. A view which doesn't square with the NT.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Why do Calvinists insist that God is the direct author of all things evil? As I understand the belief, God is responsible for every action in a persons life. If true, every rape, every homosexual act, every murder, robery and every other act that is against the OT law was pre-programmed by God for His Glory.

Can you explain to me haw God making people break the laws He installed bring glory to Him?

First, define the words sin, author, and evil, as you use them in the OP, and then we can have a conversation.

 

[heymikey80]

That is my question to you. If God predetermines that every action, andevery thought, how can He not be the responsible cause of every evil action? A rape begins with a thought. Murder begins with a thought. All of these thoughts are predetermined by God, therfore God predetermined that rapes and murder should occur. For His glory.

Ah. OK, let's consider the obvious, since you're judging God. Evil requires an evil motivation. What's God's evil motivation?

And no, emphasizing the evilness of the action doesn't make the case. I'm sure things you've done have some extended impact in committing crimes. Did you spend that $100? Didn't that money go on to cause covetousness in someone's heart? And probably someone seeing your money among others', probably robbed a 7-Eleven somewhere.

Forget about blaming someone else as responsible. You caused it: so you're responsible. Didn't your passing the $100 cause covetousness? And likely it was stolen at some point, too.

This is the argument you're making.

And even though you know that $100 would eventually cause someone to rob for it -- are you therefore responsible for their robbery?

It makes no sense to me. If God is not, as you insist, responsible for evil, then He can't predetermine every thought and action. Then you have a contridiction with God predetermining every action and thought. Very quickly, your whole argument becomes circular, and goes nowhere.

If God does not determine everything, then God did not cause to exist, every thing that exists.

Do your thoughts exist?

I don't even know if I need to go through this, because God's causing things to happen later on, and indeed exploiting them for the good of those who love Him (Rom 8:28), does not make Him responsible for their evil. So your accusation, that God is thereby responsible for doing evil does not follow.

There is another sense in which God is responsible, and He takes the responsibility seriously -- as Judge. In fact, God makes all things right through the Final Judgement. Right? Why does God have any responsibility for judging wrong?

What authority would God have for making things right if He didn't have some responsibility for judging wrong?

It is also a hopeless message. Under Calvinism, you cannot know if you are saved are not. There is no way for you to know if you are elect or not. A view which doesn't square with the NT.

Of course people can have know that they're saved!

Of course people can know if they are elect or not!

Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God, and estate of salvation (which hope of theirs shall perish): yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace, and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. Westminster Ch. 18, Sec. 1
​

You've noticed, haven't you, that both of the quotes I've made so far are in the very first paragraph of a chapter in Westminster? These are the basic facts about Calvinism. And Puritan Calvinism at that.
At this point you've made three errors of fact about Calvinism.

At this point you're attributing your mistakes to a theology that doesn't make the mistakes you're alleging.

 

[Boxmaker]

First, define the words sin, author, and evil, as you use them in the OP, and then we can have a conversation.

Sin = Knowingly acting in oposition to Gods will.
Author = For this discussion Author means the One who has written down all that will happen in your life just like telling a story. First this happened which lead to that and so on and so forth.
Evil = Activly working against God's will/plan in all things.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Sin = Knowingly acting in oposition to Gods will.
Author = For this discussion Author means the One who has written down all that will happen in your life just like telling a story. First this happened which lead to that and so on and so forth.
Evil = Activly working against God's will/plan in all things.

...which is not the way that the Westminster divines would define the terms. QED: "Apples and oranges". You and the Calvinists you pose this question to are talking past each other.

 

[Boxmaker]

...which is not the way that the Westminster divines would define the terms. QED: "Apples and oranges". You and the Calvinists you pose this question to are talking past each other.

So set us on the right path. What definitions should we (I) be using?

 

[mlqurgw]

Yet another one who asks questions so that they can tell us what we ought to believe. Do you actually have an interest in finding out what we really believe or are you just wanting to argue? I suspect it is the later. Do a search of Semper and see how often this accusation has been answered. Do you think you bring anything new? Your whole premise is based in a false idea of Calvinism. We have heard the your God is a monster argument many times and refuted it. We have heard the we are robots argument so often we can answer it in our sleep. We have answered the you make God the author of sin so many times it is ridiculous. If you are truly interested in listening instead of arguing we will do our best to give you clear answers according to Scripture but the argument is old and not worth the time.

 

[Boxmaker]

Yet another one who asks questions so that they can tell us what we ought to believe. Do you actually have an interest in finding out what we really believe or are you just wanting to argue? I suspect it is the later. Do a search of Semper and see how often this accusation has been answered. Do you think you bring anything new? Your whole premise is based in a false idea of Calvinism. We have heard the your God is a monster argument many times and refuted it. We have heard the we are robots argument so often we can answer it in our sleep. We have answered the you make God the author of sin so many times it is ridiculous. If you are truly interested in listening instead of arguing we will do our best to give you clear answers according to Scripture but the argument is old and not worth the time.

I'm here and I'm asking. I want to understand what you believe and why you believe it. From what I have heard and seen, the settled view is very contridictory to itself. For instance, I have heard people say that God is responsible for everything that happens except for sin. Well, if God is not responsible for sin then He cannot be responsible for everything. If He is responsible for everything, then He must be responsible for sin too.

The Dark Lord of Calvinism implies that I am not using the same definitions for sin, author and evil that you use. Set me straight. Enlightnen me. As it stands right now, I can see no message of hope in settled view theology.

We will argue, thats a given. Could be a lot of fun. It could also be very enlightening?

Are you up to it?

 

[Boxmaker]

Ah. OK, let's consider the obvious, since you're judging God. Evil requires an evil motivation. What's God's evil motivation?

And no, emphasizing the evilness of the action doesn't make the case. I'm sure things you've done have some extended impact in committing crimes. Did you spend that $100? Didn't that money go on to cause covetousness in someone's heart? And probably someone seeing your money among others', probably robbed a 7-Eleven somewhere.

Forget about blaming someone else as responsible. You caused it: so you're responsible. Didn't your passing the $100 cause covetousness? And likely it was stolen at some point, too.

This is the argument you're making.

And even though you know that $100 would eventually cause someone to rob for it -- are you therefore responsible for their robbery?

If God does not determine everything, then God did not cause to exist, every thing that exists.

Do your thoughts exist?

I don't even know if I need to go through this, because God's causing things to happen later on, and indeed exploiting them for the good of those who love Him (Rom 8:28), does not make Him responsible for their evil. So your accusation, that God is thereby responsible for doing evil does not follow.

There is another sense in which God is responsible, and He takes the responsibility seriously -- as Judge. In fact, God makes all things right through the Final Judgement. Right? Why does God have any responsibility for judging wrong?

What authority would God have for making things right if He didn't have some responsibility for judging wrong?

Of course people can have know that they're saved!

Of course people can know if they are elect or not!

Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God, and estate of salvation (which hope of theirs shall perish): yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace, and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed. Westminster Ch. 18, Sec. 1
​

You've noticed, haven't you, that both of the quotes I've made so far are in the very first paragraph of a chapter in Westminster? These are the basic facts about Calvinism. And Puritan Calvinism at that.
At this point you've made three errors of fact about Calvinism.

At this point you're attributing your mistakes to a theology that doesn't make the mistakes you're alleging.

Ah. I begin to understand. Evil lies in the motivation, not the action. Thus, an act that would be considered evil may actually be holy if the motivation is correct.

For instance. If I rape a woman because I truely believe in my heart that I can show her how good things can be under God's total control, that act is not evil. My motivations were purely to open her up to God and I truely believed that I was destined to do this so it would not be evil. Bit of a stretch,but maybe. (Yes, this paragraph is inflamitory and is intended to be so. Your belief must be able to explain even the most outrageous actions and this paragraph qualifies as that.)

Responsability is interesting too. Are we responsible for anothers actions? Only the extent that we were able to reasonable forsee or influance their actions. Spending $100 would not normally make you responsible for any other sin associated with it unless... If you spend the money on a hooker you cause her to sin because you set up the demand for her to meet.

God created me and my ability to think, He did not create my thoughts. Why would He? Did God create the computers we are currently typing on? No. He created us and gave us intelegence. We used those and invented computeres. We mined the materials, built the plants and assembled the computers. Gods hand never touched them. But who caused them to be created and who is responsible for creating them? Interesting question.

As to the Westminster, I view it the same way I view the Catholic Caticism, The Book of Morman, and the Koran. Extra Biblical and uninspired.

 

[mlqurgw]

I'm here and I'm asking. I want to understand what you believe and why you believe it. From what I have heard and seen, the settled view is very contridictory to itself. For instance, I have heard people say that God is responsible for everything that happens except for sin. Well, if God is not responsible for sin then He cannot be responsible for everything. If He is responsible for everything, then He must be responsible for sin too.

The Dark Lord of Calvinism implies that I am not using the same definitions for sin, author and evil that you use. Set me straight. Enlightnen me. As it stands right now, I can see no message of hope in settled view theology.

We will argue, thats a given. Could be a lot of fun. It could also be very enlightening?

Are you up to it?

I am very capable in debate but no longer wish to engage in it. It is a pointless exercise in intellectualism that only feeds vanity and pride. I also have no time and little patience with those who ask questions only in order to give their answers. I am willing to discuss these issues with you and try to answer your questions if you really want to know what we believe.
You seem to have formed your view of the doctrines of grace by what you have heard from some who claim to believe them but be aware that the misstatements of some cannot be taken as the view of the whole. I also suspect you may be putting words into the mouths of those you have heard based on your conclusions. I see red flags by your use of terms such as God being responsible and settled view. You give away your preconceived ideas by them. They are not conducive to an exchange of ideas as the caricature must first be overcome before we can even begin. If you want to know what Calvinists believe concerning God's sovereignty in all things ask, don't tell us what you think we believe. You start out by poisoning the well when you ask such questions as you did.
I do not speak for all Calvinists and may very well differ with many on these issues but I will tell you what I believe. It will have to wait for another post though as I am going to be late for an appointment if I take the time right now.

 

[nill]

To Boxmaker:

Read The Reformed Doctrine of Predestination by Loraine Boettner.

 

[mlqurgw]

Ah. I begin to understand. Evil lies in the motivation, not the action. Thus, an act that would be considered evil may actually be holy if the motivation is correct.

For instance. If I rape a woman because I truely believe in my heart that I can show her how good things can be under God's total control, that act is not evil. My motivations were purely to open her up to God and I truely believed that I was destined to do this so it would not be evil. Bit of a stretch,but maybe. (Yes, this paragraph is inflamitory and is intended to be so. Your belief must be able to explain even the most outrageous actions and this paragraph qualifies as that.)

Responsability is interesting too. Are we responsible for anothers actions? Only the extent that we were able to reasonable forsee or influance their actions. Spending $100 would not normally make you responsible for any other sin associated with it unless... If you spend the money on a hooker you cause her to sin because you set up the demand for her to meet.

God created me and my ability to think, He did not create my thoughts. Why would He? Did God create the computers we are currently typing on? No. He created us and gave us intelegence. We used those and invented computeres. We mined the materials, built the plants and assembled the computers. Gods hand never touched them. But who caused them to be created and who is responsible for creating them? Interesting question.

As to the Westminster, I view it the same way I view the Catholic Caticism, The Book of Morman, and the Koran. Extra Biblical and uninspired.

Do you always put words into the mouths of those you disagree with? Twisting what someone says to use it against them may win debates but it doesn't make your argument true. Actually you made his point in your later statements. God controls that which men think and do to bring about His purposes. Every circumstance and influence that brings about men's ideas and choices are in the complete control of God. He doesn't need to give us our thoughts for us, though sometimes He does, He simply controls all that influences us and the consequences of those thoughts and decisions.

 

[epistemaniac]

I'm here and I'm asking. I want to understand what you believe and why you believe it. From what I have heard and seen, the settled view is very contridictory to itself. For instance, I have heard people say that God is responsible for everything that happens except for sin. Well, if God is not responsible for sin then He cannot be responsible for everything. If He is responsible for everything, then He must be responsible for sin too.

The Dark Lord of Calvinism implies that I am not using the same definitions for sin, author and evil that you use. Set me straight. Enlightnen me. As it stands right now, I can see no message of hope in settled view theology.

We will argue, thats a given. Could be a lot of fun. It could also be very enlightening?

Are you up to it?

"the settled view".... ahhh... so you are an open theist then.....?

 

[heymikey80]

Ah. I begin to understand. Evil lies in the motivation, not the action. Thus, an act that would be considered evil may actually be holy if the motivation is correct.

For instance. If I rape a woman because I truely believe in my heart that I can show her how good things can be under God's total control, that act is not evil. My motivations were purely to open her up to God and I truely believed that I was destined to do this so it would not be evil. Bit of a stretch,but maybe. (Yes, this paragraph is inflamitory and is intended to be so. Your belief must be able to explain even the most outrageous actions and this paragraph qualifies as that.)

And the alternative, that god isn't in control. Your belief must be able to explain even the most outrageous actions, too. He's not in control; he doesn't know what will happen next (so he's lying about this prophetic ability); if he knew certainly he wouldn't have allowed it.

How can we trust such a god to set things right? How will he know what the proper punishment is? He doesn't even know what his creatures are capable of doing. His job must be like herding cats. Why would I trust him?

Oh, and apparently you haven't read the posting guidelines on this forum. It's not for inflammatory statements; certainly not those you intentionally post.

So the net result: your god isn't a god at all, he's just another victim of existence.

Meanwhile, let's make an analogy. A poor one at best, but then, comparing infinity to finiteness is always going to beggar your thinking. You squashed a bug today. Oops. How much responsibility do you bear for that? How much do you care about the bug?

Or maybe a bacterium in your body. How much responsibility for your brother, the bacillus?

No one who's eaten anything green can say they haven't killed to live.

Meanwhile, you haven't set any of this at God's doorstep. It's quite clear that you don't like the idea any longer that cause == responsibility, from your quote below. Yet you maintain that you're doing the raping in your example up here. Please. Spare me the hysterics. God isn't Zeus, and He's not flying around raping women.

Responsability is interesting too. Are we responsible for anothers actions? Only the extent that we were able to reasonable forsee or influance their actions. Spending $100 would not normally make you responsible for any other sin associated with it unless... If you spend the money on a hooker you cause her to sin because you set up the demand for her to meet.

You're constructing a code of responsibility on the spot and accusing God of violating it? You have a responsibility to the poor, says God. Tell me about your responsibility to the poor. What responsibility do you think you have to them?

You can forsee -- everyone can -- that people will be envious of what you have. It's human nature.

And you can influence them not to do so. Give away all you have. Then you won't influence anyone to take what you don't have.

Then please respond when you're done and we'll talk about your claim and ... really, your mistaken view of responsibility, then.

Oh! That's right! You won't be able to respond.

God created me and my ability to think, He did not create my thoughts. Why would He? Did God create the computers we are currently typing on? No. He created us and gave us intelegence. We used those and invented computeres. We mined the materials, built the plants and assembled the computers. Gods hand never touched them. But who caused them to be created and who is responsible for creating them? Interesting question.

You think God randomly created the properties of semiconductivity, conductivity, electricity, insulation, etc.? Well, I think God knows what He created, entirely and completely. I also think God knows what people think, and has built people to think in certain ways, designedly so. And of course, knowing infinitely much about His Creation, He is also aware He created individuals to think a certain way. It's simply inescapable. If God controls the conditions of creation, then He controls the results of creation.

I don't really have much interest in a God who couldn't know my circumstances. I'm sure you can find people who want their god to be amazed with their progress in science. I doubt seriously that God is amazed.

As to the Westminster, I view it the same way I view the Catholic Caticism, The Book of Morman, and the Koran. Extra Biblical and uninspired.

So? First, your god is already extra-Biblical in so many ways it'd be hard to count. But second, you are complaining about Calvinism. Hear the word? Calvinism. If you can't even get your facts straight about what this view is, then you're simply lying.

And that's bearing false witness.

What does your Bible tell you about bearing false witness?

 

[5SolasinKY]

God knows all things – past, present and future. He has planned history and has the power to bring everything to pass that He has ordained to come to pass. We see this also in prophecy that we can expect everything He has promised shall come to pass.
Isa 46:8 "Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors,
Isa 46:9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, 'My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,'

He is not the author of sin.
1Jo 2:16 For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride in possessions--is not from the Father but is from the world.

Yet sin works within His providence. He leaves men to sin and uses it for His own purposes.
Exo 4:21 And the LORD said to Moses, "When you go back to Egypt, see that you do before Pharaoh all the miracles that I have put in your power. But I will harden his heart, so that he will not let the people go.
Act 1:16 "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus.

He justly judges men for sin, so that none go unpunished who sin. We are responsible for our sins.
Nah 1:3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, and the LORD will by no means clear the guilty. His way is in whirlwind and storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet.

Now this may be a quandary, but we are to believe the Word of God in all things. If the Bible says it is so, then it is so whether we fully understand it or not. We won’t be the first or the last to wonder how it could be this way.

Hab 1:13 You who are of purer eyes than to see evil and cannot look at wrong, why do you idly look at traitors and are silent when the wicked swallows up the man more righteous than he?

If any Reformed believer has misrepresented scripture, it should be pointed out where and how. We really can’t say we adhere to sola scriptura and yet deny what it clearly teaches.

 

[Boxmaker]

I am very capable in debate but no longer wish to engage in it. It is a pointless exercise in intellectualism that only feeds vanity and pride. I also have no time and little patience with those who ask questions only in order to give their answers. I am willing to discuss these issues with you and try to answer your questions if you really want to know what we believe.
You seem to have formed your view of the doctrines of grace by what you have heard from some who claim to believe them but be aware that the misstatements of some cannot be taken as the view of the whole. I also suspect you may be putting words into the mouths of those you have heard based on your conclusions. I see red flags by your use of terms such as God being responsible and settled view. You give away your preconceived ideas by them. They are not conducive to an exchange of ideas as the caricature must first be overcome before we can even begin. If you want to know what Calvinists believe concerning God's sovereignty in all things ask, don't tell us what you think we believe. You start out by poisoning the well when you ask such questions as you did.
I do not speak for all Calvinists and may very well differ with many on these issues but I will tell you what I believe. It will have to wait for another post though as I am going to be late for an appointment if I take the time right now.

Okay. Thanks for dropping by.

 

[Boxmaker]

"the settled view".... ahhh... so you are an open theist then.....?

Yes. I do not believe God has set out every detail of the future. I believe He has a different prospective that allows Him to see the future without planning it out.

It is like the horizon. From our prespective, the horizon is only a couple of miles in any direction. The higher we go the farther the horizon is off. A sattelite, with the right optics, can read a newspaper headline from just about any stree corner in the old USSR. God is like that. People who are not saved will tend to act against God's will. People who are saved will tend to act in accordance with Gods will, especially if we have totally surendered our lives. God will work through us. This prespective allows god to know what will happen because He knows how His creation acts.

 

[Boxmaker]

And the alternative, that god isn't in control. Your belief must be able to explain even the most outrageous actions, too. He's not in control; he doesn't know what will happen next (so he's lying about this prophetic ability); if he knew certainly he wouldn't have allowed it.

So you're saying He doesn't know the future?

How can we trust such a god to set things right? How will he know what the proper punishment is? He doesn't even know what his creatures are capable of doing. His job must be like herding cats. Why would I trust him?

Punishment for what. All our sins were forgiven. Unless you don't believe Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not enough to forgive our sins.

Oh, and apparently you haven't read the posting guidelines on this forum. It's not for inflammatory statements; certainly not those you intentionally post.

Darn the rules! Full speed ahead! Seriously, it can be a good way to get people to think. Sadly, it didn't work here. You completely ignord the point being made and ran off down another path. Pretty typical of the tacktics I have seen other Calvinists use in debates.

So the net result: your god isn't a god at all, he's just another victim of existence.

Why would you say that? God has created and set it in motion. He gave us free will and allows us to excercise it.

Meanwhile, let's make an analogy. A poor one at best, but then, comparing infinity to finiteness is always going to beggar your thinking. You squashed a bug today. Oops. How much responsibility do you bear for that? How much do you care about the bug?

Or maybe a bacterium in your body. How much responsibility for your brother, the bacillus?

No one who's eaten anything green can say they haven't killed to live.

Okay, this is a first. You are the first person I have ever spoken to that asserts bugs, bacteria and plants have eternal souls. Your anology comes up short.

Meanwhile, you haven't set any of this at God's doorstep. It's quite clear that you don't like the idea any longer that cause == responsibility, from your quote below. Yet you maintain that you're doing the raping in your example up here. Please. Spare me the hysterics. God isn't Zeus, and He's not flying around raping women.

I never said or even implied He was.

You're constructing a code of responsibility on the spot and accusing God of violating it? You have a responsibility to the poor, says God. Tell me about your responsibility to the poor. What responsibility do you think you have to them?

It was based on your comments and now you are avoiding discussing it. Why?

You can forsee -- everyone can -- that people will be envious of what you have. It's human nature.

And you can influence them not to do so. Give away all you have. Then you won't influence anyone to take what you don't have.

Then please respond when you're done and we'll talk about your claim and ... really, your mistaken view of responsibility, then.

Yes, we have a responsability to the poor and the widows and the orphans. No, I am not perfect at helping them but we do do something, both through our church and some missions we support. As for giving everything away, that would be irresponsable to my family.

You think God randomly created the properties of semiconductivity, conductivity, electricity, insulation, etc.? Well, I think God knows what He created, entirely and completely. I also think God knows what people think, and has built people to think in certain ways, designedly so. And of course, knowing infinitely much about His Creation, He is also aware He created individuals to think a certain way. It's simply inescapable. If God controls the conditions of creation, then He controls the results of creation.

We are not far apart on this. I think God knows His creation so well that He can know the future without having first planned it out in detail. As for computers, I really don't think God had a direct hand in its creation. I'll change my view if you can show me where it fits in to the two Laws of the New Covenant.

I don't really have much interest in a God who couldn't know my circumstances. I'm sure you can find people who want their god to be amazed with their progress in science. I doubt seriously that God is amazed.

God knows my circumstances. Did He cause them? No. We live in a fallen creation. Stuff happens. The question is what do you do when stuff happens, blame God or open your heart to God and allow Him to use you in the middle of all that stuff.

So? First, your god is already extra-Biblical in so many ways it'd be hard to count. But second, you are complaining about Calvinism. Hear the word? Calvinism. If you can't even get your facts straight about what this view is, then you're simply lying.

And that's bearing false witness.

What does your Bible tell you about bearing false witness?

I have born no false witness. I have heard many things from many people about Calvinism or Setteled View. It has been my experiance that when these people are pressed on their beliefs they end up hurling insults and eventually running for cover. I have yet to get clear, consistant answers to what you believe and why. Thats probably why I have so many miss-conceptions because nobody has ever been able to explain it well!