Why did pope change sabbath?

Cribstyl · Dec 1, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Crib... really??

Why are you being so antagonistic? Tbaine was sharing his testimony for what he found to be the truth... why do you think he has to justify that to you?

Obviously Tbaine last posted in 2006. Asking reasonable questions are challenging to some. I find that you're the one being confrontational.
I dont ask you for answers ...but anywayz have a great day.

stinsonmarri · Dec 1, 2011

Cribstyl: This is quite long to fully respond to your statement on the things that I said so there won't be any misunderstanding. I will stand for truth and the Bible which is both the OT and NT that speak the same for all nations, tongues and people. Elohim is no respect of person! Acts 10:34

Part One

You stated: God's word is truth, so prove what you're saying with scripture not questions.

Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11; 24:12; Lev 23:1-3; Isa 58:13; 66:22, 23; Mark 2:27, 28; Luke 4:16; 23:56; Acts 13:42, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4

I ask the question to see if it was known that Yahweh or Yashua had change the commandment and that mean any of them including the Sabbath. The reason is simple I have never read anywhere it was changed!

Respectfully dear friend Why would God have to declare change to something that He never established with the world in the first place?

Well the last time I understood the English language my respectful friend that the word "flesh" and "man" meant the whole world!!! Isa 66:23; Mark 2:27, 28

Your request appears as a "preempted defensive stunt", unless you can first show us where God commanded that "all nations of should keep the Sabbath.

(Hmm, this may explains the unfounded "creation instituted sabbath confusion")

That is another text that I could supply without providing any stunt. You appear very angry and I cannot understand why? The Bible clearly states that one can choose whom to serve I choose to serve all of Elohim commands, statutes, OT, NT (which by the way is the Bible) the pioneers who formed the faith that I hold fast to and not doctrines or tradition even in the Adventist Church! Yashua was a Jew but did not accept the traditions and doctrines that the Pharisees and Sadducees had change from Elohim His Father's Commandments and Laws. They attempt to make the Sabbath a burden and that you could not good at all on Yahweh Elohim's holy day! Matt 15:37-9

The fact is; God did establish the sabbath as a sign between Himself and only one nation means the "game is over."

There is no game in truth only facts and I also can prove without a doubt that the Sabbath was made for "man" which is all nations. Here is proof of nations that recognized from the beginning of time that The Seventh day is The Sabbath of Yahweh Elohim and Yashua Elohim and not Sunday! Here just a few:

Sabbat Latin 2 (eccIeiastica1), Latin 3 (vulgar), Sábado Portuguese Galician, Sabado Spanish, Sabadu Aragonese, Sabadu Asturian,

Sabru Capeverdian Creole, Sabato Italian, Sabatu Corsican,

Sabbu Ligurian, Sabet Lombard, Saba Piedmontese, Sabo Venetian Sabbato Neapolitan, Sàbbatu; sabbatudia Sicilian, Sávvato Greek,

Sabato Espeianto, Sabtu Malay, Indonesian, Javanese, Saptu Sudanese, San-bat Ge-ez or Ethiopic Abyssinia (Ge-ez), a-hal es-Sabt Tamashek or

Towarek, asSebt Numidian) North Africa, asSebatu Hausa (Central

Africa) Shamba Hindu, India, Shamba Afghanistan

The bible is not confusing when we apply it to understanding.

You are correct the Bible isn't confusing when you apply understanding and not interpretation! For two decades we have ask show anywhere in the Bible that Yahweh or His Son Yashua change the Holy Sabbath day. This day was blessed, sanctified and it became a universal rest for not only mankind because Elohim rested from all the work He created. The Bible clearly states that the "Heavens (Heb shameh means celestial bodies)" and the "earth" were finish and on the seventh day that He name Sabbath He rested! Yes that is clearly simple and anyone can and should understand these words. However many had attempted to use certain Scriptures to make claim that man is above Elohim! Yashua said that He is Master of the Sabbath and not man! (Mark 2:28) One Text they lie and state that John was in the Spirit on Sunday and that is not in the original manuscript. Here is what it states:

I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of Yahweh, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, (Rev 1:10 Scripture 98+)

Asking Jewish Rabbis about Sabbath history is a reasonble option for some people to learn and understand Sabbath truths.

That's the problem I do not need to hear the history from a Rabbis who never accepted that Yashua was the Son of Elohim! I take what Yahweh Elohim states because the Jews like all mankind have gone astray!

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear Elohim, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. Eccl 12:13 Appears to be international to me if you are mankind! (Psa 119:46; Mal 3:6)

My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psa 89:34

Blessings,
stinsonmarri

stinsonmarri · Dec 1, 2011

Cribstyl: Part Two

Also you stated: Hmmm, How much creditability do you give to Catholic claims on issues concerning their apostolic authority?? (repeat, repeat) No further comment. I don't see Don putting down the Sabbath. I see him repeating that the Baptists are proud to recognized the Seventh Day Baptists claims about the Sabbath. SDA truth depends on answers from you and whomever we ask.

I never put down Don and Seventh Day Baptist because Rachael Oaks, Frederick Wheeler, T.M. Preble, Joseph Bates, Hiram Edison were Sabbath keepers. And I thank Rachael Oak who was formerly a Seventh Day Baptist that upheld the Sabbath and helped in the reformation of the Adventist group that soon became the Seventh Day Adventist. However, I want to emphatically state that Sabbath keepers were kept by the Sumer, Assyrians, Egyptians, Afrikans, Job, Apostles, others under the Roman Catholic rule, the Waldenses and the Celtics (Scotland: A Concise History by P. Hume Brown (Langsyne; Scotland: A Concise History by P. Hume Brown (Langsyne); Dr. W.D. Simpson published The Historical St. Columba in Edinburgh), Moravians, Quakers, Separatist, and Anabaptist. These are the facts as a Biblical and Afrikan Historian Scholar with recognition but with humbleness.

You keep claiming not to believe some of SDA doctrines, should we follow your lead? Is it not the true, that those who currently hold SDA records reserves the right to edit or change it? The Baptist do not claim an infallable prophets and inspired writtings comparable to scriptures.

Well they did change things from what was the principles of the SDA church by the pioneers only through the Bible by the Holy Spirit. Such is this notion that EGW claim she was infallible, a prophet and that her writings were comparable to Scriptures. These are all lies and here is what she stated:

When I was last in Battle Creek, I said before a large congregation that I did not claim to be a prophetess. Twice I referred to this matter, intending each time to make the statement, "I do not claim to be a prophetess." If I spoke otherwise than this, let all now understand that what I had in mind to say was that I do not claim the title of prophet or prophetess. 1SM 35

Some have stumbled over the fact that I said I did not claim to be a prophet; and they have asked why is this? I have had no claims to make, only that I am instructed that I am the Yashuas messenger; that He called me in my youth to be His messenger, to receive His word, and to give a clear and decided message in the name of the Yashua. 1SM, 32

We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. Elohim and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed. As long as we hold to our own ideas and opinions with determined persistency, we cannot have the unity for which Yashua prayed. In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; Elohim alone is infallible. His word is true, and in Him is no variableness, or shadow of turning. 1SM 37, 38

There is but One who is infallible--He who is the way, the truth, and the life. . .

The Bible must not be interpreted to suit the ideas of men, however long they may have held these ideas to be true. We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of Elohim; they were erring mortals like ourselves. Elohim has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor. . .

All should be careful about presenting new views of Scripture before they have given these points thorough study, and are fully prepared to sustain them from the Bible. TM 105, 106

That is why you cannot believe what people say about someone unless they give you proof. My Church like others in other churches has gone astray from what was provided by EGW. She was not the founder of the SDA faith Rachael Oak, Joseph Bates, and Hiram Edison were. It was Hiram Edison that gave us the message of the Investigated Judgment that he wrote about and not EGW! It upsets me when others that know nothing about the history of our founding fathers listen to false messages as the principles of our Church. If you view over the various forum of discussion in the Traditional Adventist you would see that I have presented this message to my Church members as well. Many refuse to believe the truth instead a lie after showing them the same information I have presented to you. EGW also did not teach the mark of the beast as Sunday worship and she change some of her views about the papacy as well. Read Testimonies to the Ministers p 105 for yourself.

What we can agree on is that God's word is the truth to live by. We are to consider "only" God's word as food for our souls. Commentary has a human agenda unlike God's word. The Holy Spirit is able to teach those who honestly seek what God commands and requires of His children. When we're singing from the same song book we can make beautiful music together.

Even though you say that we should agree on Elohim's word sad to say you do not. If you take the claim that Yahweh change His Holy day that He blessed and sanctified! Food for our soul is correct if you take it and accept it! EGW stated the same thing about Commentaries and the Holy Spirit the Bible clearly states will lead you to "All Truth." If you are referring to the Bible there is one song and it is clearly stated like this:

When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul. Eze 3:18-21

Finally here are more Scriptures that prove Elohim word is for all nations and not just the Jews. Psa 9:17, 22:27, 28; 67:2, 4;72:11, 17; 82:8, 9; 96:5 (idols are part of the commandments); Isa 2:2 4; 14:12; Isa 30:28 (vanity is coveting again a part of the commandments); 43:6-12 (the creation of the heavens and earth is the Sabbath law, Torah know as a statute find also in Gen 1-3 about creation and Ex 24:12. Yahweh Elohim establishes who He is in the commandment.); 45:20; 52:10; 52:15; 61:11, 66:18;66:19 (Elohim sign is the Sabbath of the law Ex 24:12.), 20; Jer 1:5 (here a prophet unto the nations), 10; 3:17 (evil heart is sin which transgress Elohim's law) 4:2; 6:18, 19 (Israel was a stumbling block to the other nations against Yahweh's law which are statues and the first one is the Sabbath found in the commandment written by the finger of Yahweh and called His testimony. Ex 31:18); 9:26 (all the nations including Israel was uncircumcised of the heart in the OT like the NT); 10:1-15 (Israel was suppose to be a beacon of light to the other nations. Yet they decorated the evergreen tree known today as the christmas tree that has been pagan throughout the centuries. Elohim said not to go the way of the heathen nations. Again is talking about idol worship which is part of the commandment of Elohim); 25:29-37; Eze 5:6 (all the nations have broken Yahweh's statues that is the Sabbath!); Dan 4:1-37 (King Nebuchadnezzar was taught by Daniel and Israel prince the truth. Because Israel would not stand loyal to Elohim and teach the nations the truth of His laws and commandment but instead follow the false idols and laws of the nations Yahweh put them where those could preach the truth. King Nebuchadnezzar wrote Daniel Chapter Four you should read it. He compel all nations to obey Elohim); 5:19; 6:25-27 (then King Darius of Persia also compel all nations again to obey the Elohim of Daniel an Israelite!); 7:14 (Daniel see all the nations in the OT this is found in Revelation of the NT shall worship Elohim the same way!); Mich 4:2, 3 (Ah! Here is the law which is the Sabbath again!);Zep 3:8 (Jealousy is in the commandment);Hag 2:7; Zech 7:14; 8:22, 23 (The nations recognize that Elohim is with the Jews and they want to obey Him! How clear is that?); 14:16, 19 (Oh! By the way the statues laws include the Feast of Tabernacle which all nations shall keep said Elohim! Hum!); Mat 24:14; 25:32; 28:19; Mark 28:19; 13:10; Luke 24:47 (sin is the transgression of Yahweh Elohim's law); Act 14:16; 17:26; Rom 1:5 16:26 (Wow Paul said Elohim commandment to obey by all nations.); [ Gal 3:8;Rev 2:26 Last but not lease even the angels keep Elohim's commandment until Satan broke them! Psa 103:20 There is more Scriptures if you like me to present them. Now show where Yahweh and Yashua clearly state to disregard the Sabbath!

Blessings,

stinsonmarri

Cribstyl · Dec 2, 2011

stinsonmarri said:
Cribstyl: This is quite long to fully respond to your statement on the things that I said so there won't be any misunderstanding. I will stand for truth and the Bible which is both the OT and NT that speak the same for all nations, tongues and people. Elohim is no respect of person! Acts 10:34

Part One

You stated: God's word is truth, so prove what you're saying with scripture not questions.

Gen 2:1-3; Ex 20:8-11; 24:12; Lev 23:1-3; Isa 58:13; 66:22, 23; Mark 2:27, 28; Luke 4:16; 23:56; Acts 13:42, 44; 16:13; 17:2; 18:4

I ask the question to see if it was known that Yahweh or Yashua had change the commandment and that mean any of them including the Sabbath. The reason is simple I have never read anywhere it was changed!

There is no misunderstanding.
It is my hope that you would stand for the truth as it's written in the bible.
Your long response does not explain how God gave Adam or humanity rest on the seventh day of creation.
If you'd explain those texts that you posted, you would see how commentary can create questionable links and views from what is actually written.
Your request for proof of a change appears as a trick, unless you cant first show that humanity was required to keep the sabbath.

Without commentary from outside the bible you have nothing to present. (a) Genesis 1:1 through2:1-3 is all about God's first actions, it does not speak of man resting because man did not created anything or worked in the first six days of creation. Ex 20:8-11 only point to the facts that God rested in creation because He ended all His work.
The 7 days creation history that Moses wrote, is all about 'what God did' each day. It's shameful to undermind what God did and replace it with what's not written in God's word. What should we do with the bible? Who would do such a thing?

Please click on the texts and see that Gen1 is 99.9% about what God did in 6days1. (Gen 1:3 — Gen 2:3)
We need to follow the flow of the story to see that Only God is present to create. And only God is noted as"rested" on the seventh day.

Here is what Moses wrote that God commanded HUMANITY AS A WHOLE in creation.
Gen 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them,
Be fruitful, and multiply,

and replenish the earth,

and subdue it:

and have dominion over the fish of the sea,

and over the fowl of the air,

and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Gen 1:29¶And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.

We should be talking about what is written not what has no scriptures to support it.

(b) Assuming that Adam rested on the next day after he (Adam) was created, seems to tell a story that Moses never wrote about.

Bible fact can be proven is, we can find Moses and the bible in both the OT and the NT establishing that Sabbath was first given through Him 2500yrs after creation.

Another bible fact is, we find Jesus explaining that Moses required circumcision on the 8th day, because it was a law passed down from Abraham.
This creates the arguments that (a)Sabbath did not predate circumcision. (b) Moses did not hold Sabbath as superior to circumcision because God's covenant promise to Abraham was the hope of the world.

Jhn 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man.
Jhn 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

I'd rather not make too many arguments in one post.

numlock321 · Dec 2, 2011

there were no evidence in the scripture that God himself promote sunday and done away the sabbath.. the sabbath was HOLY and declared to be the LORDS DAY...

i dont know why some still argue from the scripture about sabbath.. where the bible was very plain and clear even a child could understand regarding on the sabbath, especially the ten commandments which was not done away... for the commandments was written in our hearts for us to remember and abide..

Cribstyl · Dec 2, 2011

numlock321 said:
there were no evidence in the scripture that God himself promote sunday and done away the sabbath.. the sabbath was HOLY and declared to be the LORDS DAY...

i dont know why some still argue from the scripture about sabbath.. where the bible was very plain and clear even a child could understand regarding on the sabbath, especially the ten commandments which was not done away... for the commandments was written in our hearts for us to remember and abide..

Having different teachers is the reason that we argue this issue. We should examine what is written carefully.
Yes, children blindly follow, because they trust that those who teach them should know exactly what God's word says.

Here is an opportunity for SDA to show that Sabbath was a creation ordinance.
You cant expect us to prove that God change something if He never established it in the first place.
These sticky questions I call "stunts", causes pastors to blink and turn from what is written to what is reasoned.
I'm sure that noone will present only scripture to make that case.

When it comes to the Sabbath commandment in Ex20:8-11.

SDA add commentary to what "Remember" could means and make a hard and unintended creation connection.
Ex20:8-11 is structured with a command, and does explains who,why, where and when to keep the sabbath. The fact that other nations are implied outside the boarders tell us all nations were not commanded or expected to keep the Sabbath.

Secondly SDA add commentary to what "remember the sabbath" could mean.

If SDA and their poineers had just explained ...."Remember the sabbath to keep it Holy." Then they can see that remember to keep it holy is actually the sabbath command going forward and it does not look back. (Proof) In Deu 5:5 Moses explained to the Children of Israel, that He was between them and God, and He was the one to tell the people that God said this was the command to keep the Sabbath Deu 5:12¶Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

Stryder06 · Dec 2, 2011

Cribstyl said:
Here is an opportunity for SDA to show that Sabbath was a creation ordinance.
You cant expect us to prove that God change something if He never established it in the first place.
These sticky questions I call "stunts", causes pastors to blink and turn from what is written to what is reasoned.
I'm sure that noone will present only scripture to make that case.

Crib if "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" doesn't work for you, it's likely that nothing else will.

When it comes to the Sabbath commandment in Ex20:8-11.

SDA add commentary to what "Remember" could means and make a hard and unintended creation connection.
Ex20:8-11 is structured with a command, and does explains who,why, where and when to keep the sabbath. The fact that other nations are implied outside the boarders tell us all nations were not commanded or expected to keep the Sabbath.

Where are other nations called to worship the One true God within the ten commandments? God was speaking to the Jews directly when giving the commandments, so an argument could easily be made that when He said "thou" He was speaking directly to the Jews. Such an argument would be silly of course, but it could happen.

Secondly SDA add commentary to what "remember the sabbath" could mean.

If SDA and their poineers had just explained ...."Remember the sabbath to keep it Holy." Then they can see that remember to keep it holy is actually the sabbath command going forward and it does not look back. (Proof) In Deu 5:5 Moses explained to the Children of Israel, that He was between them and God, and He was the one to tell the people that God said this was the command to keep the Sabbath Deu 5:12¶Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.

I guess those seventh day baptists who introduced the sabbath to the pioneers were off their rocker too huh? The fact is that instead of coming and talking to us about it, you should be on your knees talking to God about it. I some how get the feeling that you think you don't need too because the Holy Spirit has already "showed you" that you don't need to keep the sabbath.

Cribstyl · Dec 2, 2011

Respectfully dear friend Why would God have to declare change to something that He never established with the world in the first place?

Well the last time I understood the English language my respectful friend that the word "flesh" and "man" meant the whole world!!! Isa 66:23; Mark 2:27, 28

In context, those scripture makes sense. Out of context those scripture are use to say whatever you wish. Isa 66 is mostly a prophecy about the last days that we're living in today.

18 For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory.
19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul [fn1] and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles.

20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the LORD out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, says the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites, says the LORD.


22 For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me, says the LORD,
So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me, says the LORD.
( This text explains that weekly and monthly, people from all nations will come and worship God. SDA key on the words one Sabbath to another rather than how Isaiah prophesies WEEKLY worship in the last day)

24 And they shall go forth and look
Upon the corpses of the men
Who have transgressed against Me.
For their worm does not die,
And their fire is not quenched.
They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.
(Chapter Rev 21:1 explains the New Heaven and Earth.....nothing that defiles or that is an abomination can enter the New Heavens and Earth , so this text in Isaiah is explaining last thing that will happen on earth.)Rev 21:27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. )

numlock321 · Dec 2, 2011

and i would rather challenge you to say that the commandments of GOD was imperfect.. you are implying the Ten commandments was imperfect, then are you a GOD? why in the first place GOD sanctified the sabbath and called to be his day if it was imperfect?

ricker · Dec 2, 2011

numlock321 said:
and i would rather challenge you to say that the commandments of GOD was imperfect.. you are implying the Ten commandments was imperfect, then are you a GOD? why in the first place GOD sanctified the sabbath and called to be his day if it was imperfect?

Was the feast of trumpets imperfect?

numlock321 · Dec 2, 2011

i was speaking the ten commandments and sabbaths.. if they were imperfect why would GOD SANCTIFIED and CALLED his day the sabbath if it were imperfect? and would rather be done away.. for others

stinsonmarri · Dec 2, 2011

Cribstyl:

You ask me the questions and I respond. Adam and Eve was created on the sixth day and whom do you think Elohim was speaking too? You can come up with all of this unrelated statement but everyone of those Scriptures answer the fact concerning nations plus the evidence that all nations even today call the seventh day of the week Sabbath! Facts not fiction. Before you accuse me of what I could not fathom nor understood your point-did you read the texts?

You wanted questions answered which I did but not one of those text can you state that Elohim was not referring to all mankind. It took me a lengthy time to answer what you ask. Now you did not answer me back but come with that Adam did not keep the Sabbath, where is your proof? Angels keep Elohim commandments. The mixed crowed that came out of Egypt also were from other nations. Yashua went to a Samarian woman and a Canaanite woman. Elijah also heal a Canaanite woman son and she obeyed Yahweh. The Canaanites knew Elohim before Abraham and most nations circumsied there baby boys. Yahweh used this for an illustration like we do today that people already are doing. I'll try again read Gen 15:16-21 concerning the Canaanite new Yahweh first also Gen 20. Oh by the way Judah pregnated a Canaanite woman and one of her twins were the ancestor of Yashua. King Melchizedek (a Jebusite king of Salem which was Jerusalem who built it before David extended it.), Rahab, Ruth, Job, Baalim, Queen Sheba were not Jews but other people from other nations. I could go on and on. Read Gal 1:8-16 and read what Paul said.

Finally you asked me why I do not agreed with the doctrines of the Church so answer again giving you facts about EGW who never claim she was a prophet/prophetess or she was above the Almighty. So please take in account that I was answering what you asked!

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

stinsonmarri · Dec 2, 2011

ricker said:
Was the feast of trumpets imperfect?

No because Yahweh said:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the YAHWEH, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Lev 23:2

Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psa 89:34

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

ricker · Dec 3, 2011

stinsonmarri said:
No because Yahweh said:

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the YAHWEH, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. Lev 23:2

Psa 89:34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. Psa 89:34

Happy Sabbath,
stinsonmarri

Thank you for the Biblical answer.

mmksparbud · Dec 4, 2011

The biggest reason for the change was the worship of the sun on sunday was so commonplace--it was the religion of the "gentiles"--sun worship on sunday. It was easier to convert people to the popes view of christianity by keeping the old pagan day, the change was not so stark and it led away from "jewishness." No true early christian kept sunday--it was always saturday, but the influx of fresh converts who still clung to sunday was great so the pope decided to change the day--after all, he claims to be God on earth and actually to be greater than Christ so he can change a commandment--or 2--he also took away the "thou shalt make no graven image and bow down and worship them" commandment to make way for the worship of the dead--he had to, only way to say it's ok to have idol worship. They fully admit it--no secret.

Cribstyl · Dec 4, 2011

The records used to support this issue does not identify any pope that change the sabbath. Truth is there is no record of any pope who change the sabbath.

Yes Catholic Church officials have many claims but their offical possition is that sunday worship is not sabbathkeeping.

Stryder06 · Dec 5, 2011

Cribstyl said:
The records used to support this issue does not identify any pope that change the sabbath. Truth is there is no record of any pope who change the sabbath.

There are actually several statements made by their church that it was by their power that they changed the day of worship from saturday to sunday.

Yes Catholic Church officials have many claims but their offical possition is that sunday worship is not sabbathkeeping.

Correct. Their stance is that the sunday replaces the sabbath, so of course sunday worship is not sabbath keeping.

OntheDL · Dec 5, 2011

Cribstyl said:
The records used to support this issue does not identify any pope that change the sabbath. Truth is there is no record of any pope who change the sabbath.

Yes Catholic Church officials have many claims but their offical possition is that sunday worship is not sabbathkeeping.

I think you might have missed several accounts.

Sylvester I, "If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be execration of the Jews."--quoted by S. R. E. Humbert, Adversus Graecorum calumnias 6, in Patrologie Cursus Completus, Series Latina, ed. J.P. Migne, 1844, p. 143.

Rabanus Maurus (776-856), the archbishop of Mainz, Germany wrote these accounts in his books.

"Pope Sylvester instructed the clergy to keep the feriae. And, indeed, from an old custom he called the first day the Lord's, on which the light was made in the beginning and also the resurrection of Christ is celebrated."

--- Rabanus Maurus, Liber de Computo (A book Concerning Computation), Chap. XXVII ("Concerning Festivals"), as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 682

"Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days, which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, of the Sun, of the Moon, of Mars, of Mercury, of Jupiter, of Venus, of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he ordered to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose, Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day, in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God. The same pope [Sylvester I] decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day."

--- Rabanus Maurus, De Clericorum Institutione (Concerning the Instruction of the Clergymen), Book II, Chap. XLVI, as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 361.

ricker · Dec 5, 2011

OntheDL said:
I think you might have missed several accounts.

Sylvester I, "If every Sunday is to be observed joyfully by the Christians on account of the resurrection, then every Sabbath on account of the burial is to be execration of the Jews."--quoted by S. R. E. Humbert, Adversus Graecorum calumnias 6, in Patrologie Cursus Completus, Series Latina, ed. J.P. Migne, 1844, p. 143.

Rabanus Maurus (776-856), the archbishop of Mainz, Germany wrote these accounts in his books.

"Pope Sylvester instructed the clergy to keep the feriae. And, indeed, from an old custom he called the first day the Lord's, on which the light was made in the beginning and also the resurrection of Christ is celebrated."

--- Rabanus Maurus, Liber de Computo (A book Concerning Computation), Chap. XXVII ("Concerning Festivals"), as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 682

"Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days, which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, of the Sun, of the Moon, of Mars, of Mercury, of Jupiter, of Venus, of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he ordered to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose, Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day, in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God. The same pope [Sylvester I] decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day."

--- Rabanus Maurus, De Clericorum Institutione (Concerning the Instruction of the Clergymen), Book II, Chap. XLVI, as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 361.

Catholics may and do say whatever makes themselves feel special, but it doesn't make it the truth. Somehow I'm not surprised you believe Roman boasts in this instance only. How many other RC doctrinal statements do you claim are inerrant?

Again I will quote the Augsburg confession of 1530, which is considered the great document of Protestantism.

For those who judge that by the authority of the Church the observance of the Lord's Day instead of the Sabbath-day was ordained as a thing necessary, do greatly err. Scripture has abrogated the Sabbath-day; for it teaches that, since the Gospel has been revealed, all the ceremonies of Moses can be omitted. And yet, because it was necessary to appoint a certain day, that the people might know when they ought to come together, it appears that the Church designated the Lord's Day for this purpose; and this day seems to have been chosen all the more for this additional reason, that men might have an example of Christian liberty, and might know that the keeping neither of the Sabbath nor of any other day is necessary.

Cribstyl · Dec 6, 2011

I'm not ignoring you all. I'm doing some extensive research arround the clock.
Thanks for the challenges.
(I've had many timed out responses but I'm still engaged.)
Truth does matter over chatter.

Why did pope change sabbath?

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