Why did pope change sabbath?

Cliff2 · Jul 13, 2006

tbaine06 said:
Thank you, question answered. I want to add, the reason I became an adventist is their answers to my questions are always supported by bible text, and "why" questions supported by historical documents. I have yet to get a "well, that is just what we do" answer from an adventist!

I must thank you for the way you made your decission.

That is how it should be.

How long have you been an Adventist?

Perhaps you may have already said but we all like to hear how each came to know the Lord and become an SDA.

Blessings

Cliff

tall73 · Jul 13, 2006

OntheDL said:
Yeah, some early christians worshipped on Sundays. But the 'church' as a whole did not recognize it as the day of worship until the papal decree of pope Sylvester (314-335AD).

Pope Sylvester was not the first to start the sunday observance, but he officially confirmed the practice and set it in place of the 7th day sabbath.

We have a record of Sylvester in regards to Nisan 14 passover dating. Do you have an actual record of a papal decree on the Sabbath by Sylvester?

tall73 · Jul 13, 2006

SparklnQTPrncess said:
In my history class we learned that the day was changed because of three reasons:

During that time, saturday you fasted and sunday you would feast, so they wanted to be able to eat on the sabbath.

To separate themselve from the Jews, who were at that time in Europe hated and blamed for most of the problems.

yes, although Sabbath fasting was forbidden in most of the church, as it was a festal day. The term "when in Rome do as the Romans do" was applied to this situation. In Rome they fasted. The fasting in fact appears to have started with Marcion, spread to other places including Rome and eventually perhaps Alexandria.

KellyLeigh · Jul 13, 2006

tall73 said:
The term "when in Rome do as the Romans do" was applied to this situation. In Rome they fasted.

I always heard that saying was linked to the fact that ancient Romans would have 7 or 8 course meals, stuffing themselves full at each only to throw up what they just ate in order to make room for the next meal. I could be wrong though.

OntheDL · Jul 14, 2006

tall73 said:
We have a record of Sylvester in regards to Nisan 14 passover dating. Do you have an actual record of a papal decree on the Sabbath by Sylvester?

Yeah, Rabanus Maurus (776-856), the archbishop of Mainz, Germany wrote these accounts in his books.

"Pope Sylvester instructed the clergy to keep the feriae. And, indeed, from an old custom he called the first day the Lord's, on which the light was made in the beginning and also the resurrection of Christ is celebrated."

--- Rabanus Maurus, Liber de Computo (A book Concerning Computation), Chap. XXVII ("Concerning Festivals"), as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 682

"Pope Sylvester first among the Romans ordered that the names of the days, which they previously called after the name of their gods, that is, of the Sun, of the Moon, of Mars, of Mercury, of Jupiter, of Venus, of Saturn, they should call feriae thereafter, that is the first feria, the second feria, the third feria, the fourth feria, the fifth feria, the sixth feria, because that in the beginning of Genesis it is written that God said concerning each day: on the first, "Let there be light:; on the second, "Let there be a firmament"; on the third, "Let the earth bring forth verdure"; etc. But he ordered to call the Sabbath by the ancient term of the law, the first feria the "Lord's day," because on it the Lord rose, Moreover, the same pope decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day, in order that on that day we should rest from worldly works for the praise of God. The same pope [Sylvester I] decreed that the rest of the Sabbath should be transferred rather to the Lord's day."

--- Rabanus Maurus, De Clericorum Institutione (Concerning the Instruction of the Clergymen), Book II, Chap. XLVI, as translated by the writer from the Latin text in Migne's Patrologia Latina, Vol. CVII, col. 361.

There are other references. But this is the earliest I think.

DontheBaptist · Nov 7, 2011

It is established by the EVENT that happened ON the day! Now what did the Pope have to do with that? And who cares what the Catholic Church claims? I mean really...where do they get so much credibility for us little 'ol Baptists when it comes to this and other "doctrinal" matters? Y'all tell the Pope to come see us...we've got a nice Bible study group he's sure to like!

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 7, 2011

Wow Don, your first post is resurrecting a 5 year old thread, then proselytizing the Pope to the Baptists denomination on an Adventist forum....

Pythons · Nov 9, 2011

It must have happened before Pope Pontian ( Pope from July 230 A.D. - Sept 235 )...
...Because Pope Pontian was exiled to the mines of Sardinia by Emperor Maximinus Thrax.
...For practicing the Christian Faith.
...Pope Pontian died there within a short time, as most did.

If I get some time tomorrow I will dig deeper into Christians who were killed for their "Christian faith".....
...Prior to 235 A.D. and see if I can determine what day they worshipped on.
...We may get lucky and come up with a Pope who did this dastardly deed.

OntheDL · Nov 9, 2011

The answer is very clear. There is no need to attempt to rewrite history.

Pythons said:
It must have happened before Pope Pontian ( Pope from July 230 A.D. - Sept 235 )...
...Because Pope Pontian was exiled to the mines of Sardinia by Emperor Maximinus Thrax.
...For practicing the Christian Faith.
...Pope Pontian died there within a short time, as most did.

If I get some time tomorrow I will dig deeper into Christians who were killed for their "Christian faith".....
...Prior to 235 A.D. and see if I can determine what day they worshipped on.
...We may get lucky and come up with a Pope who did this dastardly deed.

DontheBaptist · Nov 9, 2011

Yeah East Coast Remnant, I got here kinda late. But better late than never, right? And as far as "prosletyzing the Pope", that is just a warm, friendly invitation! YOU would get the same cordial consideration as the Pope and anyone in his church. Come on by to fellowship sometime...and you are very welcome!

OntheDL · Nov 9, 2011

And this quote shows even in the 6th and 7th century, a number of Christians were still keeping the 7th day sabbath.

Pope Gregory I (590-604)

Gregory, servant of the servants of God, to his most beloved sons the Roman citizens. It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lords day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lords day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed.

---Gregory I (Pope, 590604), Selected Epistles, Vol. 13, pp. 92, 93.

Pythons said:
It must have happened before Pope Pontian ( Pope from July 230 A.D. - Sept 235 )...
...Because Pope Pontian was exiled to the mines of Sardinia by Emperor Maximinus Thrax.
...For practicing the Christian Faith.
...Pope Pontian died there within a short time, as most did.

If I get some time tomorrow I will dig deeper into Christians who were killed for their "Christian faith".....
...Prior to 235 A.D. and see if I can determine what day they worshipped on.
...We may get lucky and come up with a Pope who did this dastardly deed.

DontheBaptist · Nov 9, 2011

Mr. East Coast Remnant...one more thing. We are represented in Sabbathkeeping by the Seventh Day Baptists, and we are extremely proud of their legacy here in America and elsewhere. I understand that they even helped your Adventist pioneers to discover the truth of the Sabbath, so we Sunday Baptists are happy they have have done so much good.

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 9, 2011

DontheBaptist said:
Mr. East Coast Remnant...one more thing. We are represented in Sabbathkeeping by the Seventh Day Baptists, and we are extremely proud of their legacy here in America and elsewhere. I understand that they even helped your Adventist pioneers to discover the truth of the Sabbath, so we Sunday Baptists are happy they have have done so much good.

Ideed...

Btw, thanx for the invite to the Baptist fold Don, butI grew up Baptist and find less Biblical ambiguity with Adventism.

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 9, 2011

OntheDL said:
And this quote shows even in the 6th and 7th century, a number of Christians were still keeping the 7th day sabbath.

Pope Gregory I (590-604)

Gregory, servant of the servants of God, to his most beloved sons the Roman citizens. It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these but preachers of Antichrist, who, when he comes, will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lords day to be kept free from all work. For, because he pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lords day to be had in reverence; and, because he compels the people to judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed.

---Gregory I (Pope, 590604), Selected Epistles, Vol. 13, pp. 92, 93.

Interesting how the early Catholic church spoke of Sabbath as the Lords day.... does the RC church today still hold to that same belief?

DontheBaptist · Nov 9, 2011

Yeah Mr. Remnant, it's interesting that a lot of the "Biblical ambiguity" that has come to light in Adventism the last 50 or so years, was presented to the rest of us by dedicated members of the Adventist church! (I would assume that they are not members in "good standing" anymore). But we appreciate their courageous stand for Truth as the Holy Spirit has led them to to express it. And therefore, we pray for them and you!

OntheDL · Nov 9, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Interesting how the early Catholic church spoke of Sabbath as the Lords day.... does the RC church today still hold to that same belief?

I'm not sure if the Catholic church has ever regarded the 7th-day sabbath as the Lord's day. Today they certainly don't pretend to associate the two together. In fact, they boast about it (the transference from Saturday to Sunday) as being the proof of the authority of the RC church on ecclesiastical matters (I'm sure you know this.)

The bishop of Rome gained religious supremacy after the Nicean Creed in 325. Pope Sylvester (314-335) decreed the official change.

Before that, the early Christians regarded the 7th-day as the Lord's Day.

‘The seventh day being the Lord’s day.‘ ---The apocryphal acts of Paul, Peter, John, Andrew and Thomas: Ancient Text and Translation, 1898, p154.

That's why I like how is written in Daniel: and think to change times and laws (of God).

ricker · Nov 9, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Interesting how the early Catholic church spoke of Sabbath as the Lords day.... does the RC church today still hold to that same belief?

You may want to read that quote again just a little more carefully. They are definitely indicating seperate things.

EastCoastRemnant · Nov 9, 2011

ricker said:
You may want to read that quote again just a little more carefully. They are definitely indicating seperate things.

Thanx.. I did read it through a couple more times.. it's as clear as mud now which day ol' Gregory was refering to...lol

Ah well, no matter we all know which day is the Lord's day, right?

ricker · Nov 9, 2011

EastCoastRemnant said:
Thanx.. I did read it through a couple more times.. it's as clear as mud now which day ol' Gregory was refering to...lol

Ah well, no matter we all know which day is the Lord's day, right?

Wasn't the Sabbath made for man? It couldn't hardly be the Lord's day if it was man's day.

DontheBaptist · Nov 9, 2011

Question: I seem to see this idea of the little horn power...which is interpreted as being the Pope or the Papacy...of "thinking to change times and law", as pertaining to the changing of the Sabbath to Sunday. Well isn't it necessary for everyone ELSE to think they did so as well, esspecially us Sundaykeepers? But I can't seem to find any Sundayworshippers who seem to care what the Papacy claims to have done, or give them any kind of credit for the "act".

Why did pope change sabbath?

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