Why did Jesus get a tomb?

[Opti]

Can someone explain why Jesus was put into a tomb rather than being left on the cross or put into a common grave.
The fact that he was crucified and then given a honourable burial is part of my confusion.

Having just read Lee Strobel's 'Case for Christ' he suggests that that is why we can believe the story, as if the story was not factual it would have been easier to believe if Jesus hadn't been placed in a tomb given that it was so unlikely.

However if Jesus hadn't risen from the tomb then he wouldn't have been fulfilling the prophecy and as such wouldn't have been the Messiah.

Unless of course I am missing something it doesn't seem to stack up.

Edit: I have read the chapter again, Joseph of Arimathea turned up and claimed the body and had it placed in his tomb.

Essentially as Joseph was a believer in Jesus being Christ this was done to ensure that the prophecy was fulfilled as predicted, would you agree?

Thanks.

 

[Audiomatic]

Hey opti!

According to Matthew 12:40, Jesus said "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Joseph of Arimithea gave Jesus his own tomb, probably assuming he wouldn't get it back, thereby abetting the symbolism intended in Matthew 12:40. I think you're on the right track.

 

[Opti]

What do we think might have happened had Joseph not done what he did?

 

[Criada]

It would have made no essential difference... wherever the body was put, Jesus would have risen.. and that is the important part!

 

[Audiomatic]

Because His followers were mostly Jews and symbolism was important to them, it may have made a difference to them if the prophesy had not been fulfilled. Also, the tomb was sealed and guarded (according to Matthew) which helps support the prophesy. But I suspect that Joseph of Arimathaea had no choice in the matter; God already knew the prophesy would be fulfilled.

 

[divided sky]

It was Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, I think. And Joseph wasn't a believer exactly. I think he just sympathized with Jesus.

 

[Opti]

It was Joseph of Arimathea's tomb, I think. And Joseph wasn't a believer exactly. I think he just sympathized with Jesus.

I read he was a secret disciple.

 

[divided sky]

I read he was a secret disciple.

Okay, fine. I don't recall offhand what the Gospels say about him. So, he put Jesus in one of his tombs. But what prophecy specifically are you referring to?

 

[secondtimearound]

I read he was a secret disciple.

[BIBLE]
And when evening was come, there came a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus’ disciple: this man went to Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded it to be given up. And Joseph took the body, and wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, and laid it in his own new tomb, which he had cut out in the rock: and he rolled a great stone to the door of the tomb, and departed (Matthew 27:57-60; cf. Mark 15:43).
[/BIBLE]

And yes I would certainly agree with you, this had to happen in order for the prophecy to be fulfilled. The prophecy being :


Isaiah 53:9 - And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.

 

[ebia]

Can someone explain why Jesus was put into a tomb rather than being left on the cross or put into a common grave.
The fact that he was crucified and then given a honourable burial is part of my confusion.

Having just read Lee Strobel's 'Case for Christ' he suggests that that is why we can believe the story, as if the story was not factual it would have been easier to believe if Jesus hadn't been placed in a tomb given that it was so unlikely.

However if Jesus hadn't risen from the tomb then he wouldn't have been fulfilling the prophecy and as such wouldn't have been the Messiah.

Unless of course I am missing something it doesn't seem to stack up.

Edit: I have read the chapter again, Joseph of Arimathea turned up and claimed the body and had it placed in his tomb.

Essentially as Joseph was a believer in Jesus being Christ this was done to ensure that the prophecy was fulfilled as predicted, would you agree?

Thanks.

Joseph would not have believed Jesus was the Messiah at that point in time. Being dead is the ultimate proof that one is not the Messiah (that's the whole point of crucifying would be Messiahs). No-one at that stage expected the <essiah to die, let alone to rise again.

Would be Messiahs were not uncommon. We know what crucifying one meant to their disciples - "this guy was not the messiah because the messiah is not supposed to be dead".

 

[ProScribe]

Can someone explain why Jesus was put into a tomb rather than being left on the cross or put into a common grave.
The fact that he was crucified and then given a honourable burial is part of my confusion.

Having just read Lee Strobel's 'Case for Christ' he suggests that that is why we can believe the story, as if the story was not factual it would have been easier to believe if Jesus hadn't been placed in a tomb given that it was so unlikely.

However if Jesus hadn't risen from the tomb then he wouldn't have been fulfilling the prophecy and as such wouldn't have been the Messiah.

Unless of course I am missing something it doesn't seem to stack up.

Edit: I have read the chapter again, Joseph of Arimathea turned up and claimed the body and had it placed in his tomb.

Essentially as Joseph was a believer in Jesus being Christ this was done to ensure that the prophecy was fulfilled as predicted, would you agree?

Thanks.

Because according to this Biblical passage.
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]
BED -> Burial
EBD -> Burial; Funeral; Gardens; Joseph; Linen; Resurrection of Christ
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
15:46[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica] So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. [/FONT]

 

[Audiomatic]

@ Divided Sky

The specific prophesy: According to Matthew 12:40, Jesus said "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

 

[divided sky]

@ Divided Sky

The specific prophesy: According to Matthew 12:40, Jesus said "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

But this isn't saying a tomb specifically. "Heart of the earth" is open to interpretation.

Opti is claiming Joseph did this to fulfill a specific prophecy and I'd like to know which prophecy Opti is referring to.

 

[Audiomatic]

According to Luke 24:6 through 8: He is not here, but is risen; remember how he spake to you when he was yet in Galilee, saying the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again. And they remembered his words.

 

[divided sky]

According to Luke 24:6 through 8: He is not here, but is risen; remember how he spake to you when he was yet in Galilee, saying the Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and on the third day rise again. And they remembered his words.

Okay, but that still says nothing about a tomb. Please allow Opti to answer.

Opti: what specific prophecy are you talking about?

 

[DrBubbaLove]

The fact He was dead and in need of tomb because that is what the Jews did with dead people I think was Stroble's point. If He did not die, he could not have Risen. Needing and our having a tomb supports that a person named Jesus was crucified and died.

The story reflects there was also a pressing need for a tomb because the Jews also found it very distasteful/wrong to have bodies hanging around on the sabbath, which is also why they wanted to break the legs of those hanging there that day - so they would die before sunset (sabbath starts at sunset) and could be taken down. They found Jesus appeared already dead, so they did not need to break his legs, but speared him just to be sure (another prophecy fulfilled - no bone broken)

 

[Kelavine]

divided sky,
I think the prophecy referred to is Isaiah 53:8-9, namely that For He was cut off from the land of the living ... He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death, though He had done no violence nor was any deceit in His mouth.

Opti,
Essentially as Joseph was a believer in Jesus being Christ this was done to ensure that the prophecy was fulfilled as predicted, would you agree?

It's a good question. The Bible does say that Joseph was a secret disciple of Jesus (John 19:38) and so may have placed Him there to fulfill the prophecy, but remember not even the disciples believed that Jesus would rise again despite what He told them. Luke records their initial reaction when the risen Jesus stood before them as being fear, doubt, and wonder. So one has to question whether or not Joseph and Nicodemus had more faith than the disciples. Maybe they did. We are also told that Joseph was a righteous and honorable man and as an admirer of Jesus, maybe he wanted to give Jesus the burial that He deserved and did right by Him, just as we would for those we admire or care about.

But, for the sake of argument, even if they did place Jesus' body in the tomb to ensure that it fulfilled Isaiah 53:8-9, it does not take anything away from the credibility of that prophecy, which was made almost 800 years prior. You also have to consider the other prophecies regarding Jesus' life that were fulfilled (as is mentioned in the Fingerprint Evidence section of Lee Strobel's book), such as His place and manner of birth, His death, His legs not being broken, and so on.

The amazing thing is that the tomb is empty and Christ was raised.

Take care.

 

[divided sky]

divided sky,
I think the prophecy referred to is Isaiah 53:8-9, namely that For He was cut off from the land of the living ... He was assigned a grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death, though He had done no violence nor was any deceit in His mouth.

Which part of this refers specifically to being placed in a tomb? That is Opti's claim, that Joseph did this to fulfill a prophecy but I want to know which prophecy Opti has in mind.

It would be nice if individuals who start threads, especially when their intention is to "explore Christianity", would see them to the end.

 

[Opti]

It would be nice if individuals who start threads, especially when their intention is to "explore Christianity", would see them to the end.

Sorry, I hadn't realised that posting here came with an obligation to visit daily

I haven't read the bible, it's on my to do list though I guess the prophecies are in the OT?

I thought that it was prophecised that Jesus got a tomb from what I read in 'Case for Christ', if not I am sorry, though the question is pretty much the same. That said I would be forgiven for thinking there was a tomb, Strobel makes a big thing about the prophecies being carried out so accurately. That is a large part of my problem, where the details are accurate that is why we should believe them, where they aren't it is enough that the core of the story is similar, such as in the gospels desribing the ressuection.

In any case I don't see that a prophecy being 'fulfilled' carries any weight if people are essentially acting it out.

 

[divided sky]

If you start a thread, you should check back frequently until the thread has run its course.

Don't assume Stroebel speaks for all Christians. He doesn't speak for this one, and the objections you would have to his arguments, I'd probably have the same ones. Stroebel defends the fundamentalist brand of Christianity, which is a very poor representative of Christianity. It's shallow and anti-intellectual. Unfortunately, it's the one that's frequently in the spotlight as somehow representing all Evangelical Christians.

I'm still not convinced there is a specific prophecy that states the Messiah will be buried in a tomb. So, the fact that Joseph put him in a tomb, is just what happened.