Why did he do it?

CalvinOwen said:

I'm glad to hear that, so you do believe God elected Adam to sin and fall before he was created?

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Blackhawk said:

If an old timer can jump in here for a moment... I think at least one problem with your position here CO is that you are making God the cause of Adam's sin. It seems to me that for you that by God electing Adam to sin that God caused Adam to sin. This is so because God made it so Adam had no choice whether he could sin or not. Remember that Adam is not like the rest of us. As Reformanist has rightly stated he lived pre-fall. (part of his life) So he had no Sin or nor one else that was a represenative for all of humanity before himself. He was that represenative. So if God created Adam with a sin nature or with a propensity to sin without a reason then God is the cause of Adam's sin and he should be held responsible for it.

However I do not believe that this occurred. God gave Adam a choice. He could of not sinned but instead he chose to sin. Now it is true that God knew that he would sin and it in his eternal and sovereign plan that Adam did sin but I do not believe that God forced Adam to sin. So one can say that God did not elect Adam towards salvation or that he elected him to damnation but that in no way means that God made Adam sin.

This is true also for you and me and everyone else post fall. God did not make Pharoah sin in anyway. He just chose to withold his grace (part) to him. So Pharoah did what his human nature lead him to do and that was sin. God used Pharoah and his own sin nature to do his (God's) own will. But again God in no way made it so pharoah had to sin. Adam sinned and thus we all have a sin nature.

So God does not make us sin. Mankind has made it so that we sin. It was in God's plan that we did sin and God put Adam in the garden knowing that he would sin and knowing that how his creation was he would sin. But he did not make it so Adam had no other choice but to sin.

I do believe in a more deterministic God than many people do but I think your view of God rules out any free choice that any human including Adam has everhad the ability to have and thus man cannot be held responsible for his own actions.

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CalvinOwen said:

Again, the criticisim is over the principle that because God elects someone then, "Who resists His will?" This criticism dates back to the Apostle Paul:

You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? Romans 9:19-21

I think a right understanding of election answers the question of this thread:

"Why did he do it?"

The answer is simple, because God elected him to do it. But you will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?" On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, "Why did you make me like this," will it? Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use?

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Asaph said:

Perhaps Adam didn't want Eve having dominion over him in that after she ate of the tree she would have a knowledge that he didn't. I other words, Adam had a prideful desire from observing what he observed.

Maybe?

Asaph

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