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Why Criticism of Traditional Churches is Wrong

Optimax

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Interesting.

Most "historic churches" such as Methodist as well as Lutheran either began very scripturally such as the Methodist.

Some like the Lutherans had a great move(s) of God in times past but drifted from those truths learned and experienced in those moves.

By the way, I do not consider myself anywhere near "expert" on church history. I do know about some events that took place though.
 
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Wgw

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Whereas I consider myself, if not an expert, sufficiently well versed to be able to refute as baseless much of the vitriolic criticism hurled at these churches from some posters.
 
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Soyeong

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The problem is that your assumption that Eastern Christians would not challenge positions that "needed changing" comes across as an Occidentalist smear, in my view.

I'm not trying to smear you, I'm just saying that if a group does something that is wrong, then other groups who do the same thing are also wrong. If a group was wrong but no one thought they were, then you can draw your own conclusions about the source of the error, but they would be nevertheless in error. I'm not sure how you can disagree or take offence at this.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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My fault, I took the bait.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Respectfully Optimax,

Some of us were discussing some of the ways that "eminent Theologian's" "well-informed scriptural opinions are scriptural correct as supported by many.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Which one of those Denominations do you recommend to us non-traditional Denominations?

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/denominations-doctrinal-theological-differences.7908121/
denominations-doctrinal-theological-differences




................................... ..............................



.
 
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Wgw

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Well I mean, obviously, I'm Orthodox, but that isn't really the point of this thread. Mark is Lutheran. This isn't about reccommending a denomination, it's about my frustration with the constant bashing of the liturgy, praxis and faith of these traditional churches.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Can you give some examples. And what constitutes "bashing", compared to constructive debate/discussion?
I didn't think bashing was allowed on CF? If that happens in a thread, just report it. I would think it is a very small minority of members that engage in that type of behavior on here, but I can't be sure.



.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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That and the efficacy of the the sacraments/sacramental nature of our Churches.
 
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MoreCoffee

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Evidently some folk think of sacraments as magic potions or spells and of the christians who indulge in them as little more than pagans with charms and spells and potions to offer. Naturally such people also think their beliefs are right and want to evangelise the traditionalists who are (in their opinions) pagans in need of salvation.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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I used to think such a way, but then I began to wonder if different styles of worship were really wrong if the group doing it still followed the fundamental basics of christianity? I then took a cultural anthropology course in college and it just confirmed what I was thinking.. Different worship styles and practices are not heretical as long as they do not not deviant from the core tenets of Christianity. The problems and conflicts I think between denominations is that they believe their style of worship is the correct and only way, when in reality it is the way that works for their cultural context, and as we are all prisoners to our culture.. we tend to view highly of our own culture and sometimes view it better than others.. and so we also tend to believe our style of worship and faith, which reflects our core culture, as the only way. Just like our culture can be viewed as the only way.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Lord warned that folk would hate the faithful because they were not of the world.
A lot of folk in religious meetings are no more christian than is your local synagogue member or your local mosque member.
I suppose that could be correct........

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

If the Pharisees and scribes understood Yeshua's prophetic parable, it must have astonished and infuriated them. How could the Jews become alienated from God while the elect Gentiles became the "seed of Abraham"?...........

While the significance of this seemingly pointless detail has been neglected by scholars throughout the centuries, you can be certain that it did not escape the notice of the Pharisees and scribes to which Yeshua was speaking.
They thoroughly knew their history and were extremely proud of their heritage.Yeshua wanted those self-righteous Pharisees to know exactly who he was referring to with this parable.
This detail cements the identity of the rich man as the House of Judah, the Jews!

Jhn 8:
22 So the Jews said, “Will He kill Himself, because He says, ‘Where I go you cannot come’?
23 And He said to them, “You are from below; I am from above.
You are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins;
for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.”


Jhn 15:19
“If you were of the world, the world would love its own.
Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.


Jhn 17:
14 “I have given them Your word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.


Jhn 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews;
but now My kingdom is not from here.”



.
 
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ViaCrucis

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<Staff Edit>

You call the Charismatic movement a "move of God", most of us would call it a departure from biblical teaching and the intrinsic nature of Lutheran confessionalism dependent upon the objective and external truths of God's Word and Sacraments.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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topcare

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Wgw

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There is a safe for us Traditional Christians here the Traditional Theology forum http://www.christianforums.com/forums/traditional-theology.1149/ even though those that are from the new Christianity try to horn in there

Indeed so, although the point of this thread is to critique the continual attacks on us posted elsewhere. My view is that traditional Christianity should not be a minority tucked away out of sight in our own "safe space," but should rather be regarded as the natural expression of our faith.
 
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topcare

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On that I agree but these forums especially GT are lead by a majority of those into new Theology and Christianity so we are always going to get negativity on us because of our desire to keep authentic verifiable Christianity. I wish their new Theology was the one that needed the safe haven and not Traditional Christians. It is very sad that they attack us by parroting what they heard instead of finding out that Traditional Christianity is the right and really only way
 
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Wordkeeper

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I find it ironic that the traditionalists seek to defend themselves by attacking those who attack.

Isn't there a saying that the tolerant are the most intolerant since they do not tolerate the intolerant (?) :


Paradox of tolerance

The paradox of tolerance arises when a tolerant person holds antagonistic views towards intolerance, and hence is intolerant of it. The tolerant individual would then be by definition intolerant of intolerance.



https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance


Better to admit the need for intolerance.


It's Scriptural:



1 John 4:1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


The only people interested in maintaining the status quo are the lazy :


Matthew 25:26"His master replied, 'You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed?



How can anyone be complacent when warned the subject matter is complex?



John 16:12“I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13“But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14“He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15“All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.


Don't forget :

Ecclesia semper reformanda est (Latin for "the church is always to be reformed", often - as usual in Latin - shortened to Ecclesia semper reformanda) is a phrase first used by Karl Barth in 1947, deriving from a saying of St. Augustine.[1] It refers to the conviction of certain Reformed Protestant theologians that the church must continually re-examine itself in order to maintain its purity of doctrine and practice. An early example is Jodocus van Lodenstein, Beschouwinge van Zion (Contemplation of Zion), Amsterdam, 1674-1678,[2] who claims the "truth [...] that also in the Church there is always much to reform" ("Sekerlijk de Gereformeerde Waarheyd [...] leert dat in de Kerke ook altijd veel te herstellen is"[3]).

Let's not make complacency a virtue. Not in the subject of God, anyway.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecclesia_semper_reformanda_est
 
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