Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

Nik0s · Jun 8, 2011

INTJ-F said:
The PENALTY for our sin. Yeshua was the final sin sacrifice. It says that's what it is in the verse is you read what it says instead of what your church says it says.

(having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness) == (Our sins were atoned for)

(he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross) == (if we accept Him as Messiah - implying obedience - our sins are atoned for by the cross [Yeshua's shed blood])

My Church? You mean the same Church that compiled the very scripture you're quoting? Scripture like this?

Romans 13:8-10 said:
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

INTJ-F · Jun 8, 2011

Originally Posted by Romans 13:8-10
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law.
The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

If you love God and love Messiah Yeshua, you would obey what they said which means you would never eat swine or shellfish. God calls eating swine an abomination so if you love Him, you would never do such an offensive thing. Do you smoke around those you love if you know they detest it? If not, then why do you eat things God said to not eat and calls it an abomination to Him to do so? If you do smoke around them, it shows you do not love them and you have broken the "love thy neighbor" commandment.

Nik0s · Jun 8, 2011

INTJ-F said:
If you love God and love Messiah Yeshua, you would obey what they said which means you would never eat swine or shellfish. God calls eating swine an abomination so if you love Him, you would never do such an offensive thing. Do you smoke around those you love if you know they detest it? If not, then why do you eat things God said to not eat and calls it an abomination to Him to do so? If you do smoke around them, it shows you do not love them and you have broken the "love thy neighbor" commandment.

I am done with this pointless discussion. I will pray for you my friend.

PROPHECYKID · Jun 8, 2011

MamaZ said:
yup because it was Gods covenant with Isreal.

I thought what made them different was the fact that God through Abraham wanted a people to call his own and to reach others through them. Israel began with Jacob and his sons and there was no written law then. Wasn't the Israelites separate and known as God's people even before they were taken into slavery.
Was it not God who told Moses to tell Pharaoh to let HIS people go, before he gave the written law? How then was it the law that made them different. But as you guys seems to like to blame everything negative on the law, I'm not surprised.

INTJ-F · Jun 8, 2011

Originally Posted by MamaZ

yup because it was Gods covenant with Isreal.

You do mean Israel?

And when they came out of Egypt and were given Torah, the gentiles that came with them were told to keep the same Torah (laws)

gentiles who are believers in Messiah Yeshua are grafted into Israel. So if Israel is to keep the law, those who are grafted in are to keep it as well just like they did when they came out of Egypt.

ricker · Jun 8, 2011

INTJ-F said:
You do mean Israel?

And when they came out of Egypt and were given Torah, the gentiles that came with them were told to keep the same Torah (laws)

gentiles who are believers in Messiah Yeshua are grafted into Israel. So if Israel is to keep the law, those who are grafted in are to keep it as well just like they did when they came out of Egypt.

I just can't believe how some people go to such extremes in thinking, just to try to put themselves under a burden the Bible says we are no longer under.

Name me one place in the NT where Gentile Christians are said to be under the law given to Israel!

sdmsanjose · Jun 9, 2011

There are people that have posted on this thread that are intent on judging mainstream Christians, and want to take away our freedom that Christ has provided and put their yoke of bondage on us with their laws of food and circumcision. They even say that if we do not keep all the 613 torah laws that we will lose our salvation and be rejected by God. Titus 1 mentions
.mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group.
pay no attention to Jewish myths

Even though there have been numerous schriptures, posted by member sof this forum, that make it clear that we no longer will be rejected by God if we do not keep all 613 Torah laws these judgment people want to force their opinions on us even if their opinions are contradicted by the many scriptures reprinted below:

Mark 7
18 Are you so dull? he asked. Dont you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him unclean? 19 For it doesnt go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body. (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.) 20 He went on: What comes out of a man is what makes him unclean.

Galatians 5:1-6
Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justifed by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Galatians 3
23 Before the coming of this faith,[j] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.

Romans 14:17
The kingdom of God is not meat and drink, but righteousness, and peace. and joy.

Romans 14:2-3
For instance, one person believes its all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who dont. And those who dont eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them.

Romans 14:6
Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God.

Romans 14:14
I know and am convinced on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong.

Colossians 2
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

If you want to disregard the scriptures above and believe that you must keep all the Torah laws so you will not loose your salvation and be rejected by God then go for it. I am even printing a link to all the 613 Torah laws so that you can get busy trying to keep your salvation.

Link to all 613 Torah laws is below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot

In summary :
Galatians 3 (King James Version)
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster (LAW).

Galatians 5

1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

I think that Titus 1 said it best when it said
pay no attention to Jewish myths

I think it is very dangerous to put such heavy burdens on people so that they are so scared of losing their salvation that they are so busy trying to be perfect that they miss the most powerful message that God has brought to mankind; the message of Gods love that allows for salvation and the absent of spiritual fear.

Galatians 5:14
For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: Love your neighbor as yourself.

MamaZ · Jun 9, 2011

PROPHECYKID said:
I thought what made them different was the fact that God through Abraham wanted a people to call his own and to reach others through them. Israel began with Jacob and his sons and there was no written law then. Wasn't the Israelites separate and known as God's people even before they were taken into slavery.
Was it not God who told Moses to tell Pharaoh to let HIS people go, before he gave the written law? How then was it the law that made them different. But as you guys seems to like to blame everything negative on the law, I'm not surprised.

The law was given to the Isrealites as Gods covenant with them. Jesus fulfilled the law. He completed it. Now our being is not in the law. But in Christ who now does not dwell in temples made of stone but in each and every individual that is His bought with His blood and sealed with His Spirit. We read in Scripture that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are none of His. We do not read those who obey the law of Moses are not His. This is why Christ is our focal point and not the law

PROPHECYKID · Jun 9, 2011

MamaZ said:
The law was given to the Isrealites as Gods covenant with them. Jesus fulfilled the law. He completed it. Now our being is not in the law. But in Christ who now does not dwell in temples made of stone but in each and every individual that is His bought with His blood and sealed with His Spirit. We read in Scripture that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ are none of His. We do not read those who obey the law of Moses are not His. This is why Christ is our focal point and not the law

Was the law ever the focal point? Was our being ever in the law? And in God's new covenant didn't he say he is going to place the law in our hearts fulfilling Jeremiah 31? Stop assigning purposes and functions to the law that it never had and then claiming Jesus took those functions or purpose away.

MamaZ · Jun 9, 2011

PROPHECYKID said:
Was the law ever the focal point? Was our being ever in the law? And in God's new covenant didn't he say he is going to place the law in our hearts fulfilling Jeremiah 31? Stop assigning purposes and functions to the law that it never had and then claiming Jesus took those functions or purpose away.

I never said Jesus took those away. I said Jesus fulfilled and completed them..

There is no more clean and unclean, Acts 10 says, No more Sabbath day, Romans 14 says - all of those things that were identified with judicial law in Israel came to an end when He called out His church. That was fulfilled.

Crankitup · Jun 9, 2011

Whilst I agree Christ fulfilled the Law I wouldn't use Acts 10 as a proof text to teach that Christians should eat pork.

Firstly, the passage in Acts chapter 10 doesn't specifically mention pork.

Secondly when God said not to call anything that he has cleansed 'common', he was speaking of the Gentiles. Peter's dream was a metaphor. God was showing him the gospel was also for the Gentiles.

Having said all that I'm not advocating a ban on eating pork for Christians, it's just that that passage is so often used wrongly to teach something it was never meant to.

I don't believe any believer is made 'ceremonially unclean' by eating pork or shellfish, simply because Christ fulfilled the law. In much the same way, no believer is made unclean or cursed by not rigorously following the OT tithe. We are instead advised in the NT to give cheerfully and not under compulsion.

OTOH, just because the dietary laws are no longer required to be followed to be in "right standing" with God, doesn't mean some of them aren't still wise advice from a health point of view.

MamaZ · Jun 9, 2011

Crankitup said:
Whilst I agree Christ fulfilled the Law I wouldn't use Acts 10 as a proof text to teach that Christians should eat pork.

Firstly, the passage in Acts chapter 10 doesn't specifically mention pork.

Secondly when God said not to call anything that he has cleansed 'common', he was speaking of the Gentiles. Peter's dream was a metaphor. God was showing him the gospel was also for the Gentiles.

Having said all that I'm not advocating a ban on eating pork for Christians, it's just that that passage is so often used wrongly to teach something it was never meant to.

I don't believe any believer is made 'ceremonially unclean' by eating pork or shellfish, simply because Christ fulfilled the law. In much the same way, no believer is made unclean or cursed by not rigorously following the OT tithe. We are instead advised in the NT to give cheerfully and not under compulsion.

OTOH, just because the dietary laws are no longer required to be followed to be in "right standing" with God, doesn't mean some of them aren't still wise advice from a health point of view.

While I understand your position I also believe when God gave Peter that vision it covered more basis than just the gentile and jew. Gods word has deep meaning in all He has said that has been written.

Crankitup · Jun 9, 2011

For me the meaning of Peter's vision is clear and unambiguous. It wasn't clear to him initially (v 17) but luckily the Holy Spirit guided him. If there's a secondary meaning in the passage, I doubt it's about pork. It would be more likely something to do with being fully open and receptive to the Holy Spirit's direction when you are confused about His leading.

Acts 10:15 And the voice came to him again a second time, What God has cleansed and pronounced clean, do not you defile and profane by regarding and calling common and unhallowed or unclean. 16 This occurred three times; then immediately the sheet was taken up to heaven.
17 Now Peter was still inwardly perplexed and doubted as to what the vision which he had seen could mean, when [just then] behold the messengers that were sent by Cornelius, who had made inquiry for Simon's house, stopped and stood before the gate.
18 And they called out to inquire whether Simon who was surnamed Peter was staying there.
19 And while Peter was earnestly revolving the vision in his mind and meditating on it, the [Holy] Spirit said to him, Behold, three men are looking for you!
20 Get up and go below and accompany them without any doubt [about its legality] or any discrimination or hesitation, for I have sent them.

Acts 10:28 And he said to them, You yourselves are aware how it is not lawful or permissible for a Jew to keep company with or to visit or [even] to come near or to speak first to anyone of another nationality, but God has shown and taught me by words that I should not call any human being common or unhallowed or [ceremonially] unclean.

Unclean animals and dogs were seen as a metaphor for the Gentiles. Even Jesus used the metaphor.
__________________

visionary · Jun 9, 2011

Originally Posted by Nik0s
Jesus taught and healed on the Sabbath. Is that not forbidden by the Mosaic law?
"Remember He was without sin, or He could not be our Messiah."
Exactly. This proves that keeping the Mosaic law is not required by Christians. It seems to me you are grasping at straws here.

I amd still waiting for you to answe... where does the Mosaic Laws forbid healing on the sabbath.

Do have the OT verse that states it is against the shabbat laws.. ??

ricker · Jun 9, 2011

MamaZ said:
While I understand your position I also believe when God gave Peter that vision it covered more basis than just the gentile and jew. Gods word has deep meaning in all He has said that has been written.

I agree. I don't believe God would use a lie to make a point.

Crankitup · Jun 10, 2011

ricker said:
I agree. I don't believe God would use a lie to make a point.

????

ricker · Jun 10, 2011

Crankitup said:
????

God wouldn't tell Peter he could eat unclean animals, and not mean it, in order to show him it was OK to fellowship with Gentiles.

visionary · Jun 10, 2011

ricker said:
God wouldn't tell Peter he could eat unclean animals, and not mean it, in order to show him it was OK to fellowship with Gentiles.

Do you know what it was like for Peter to even consider eating with a gentile.. the nightmare that came down in vision... God gave permission to eat with the gentile... that is the message that Peter got out of the vision..

brightmorningstar · Jun 10, 2011

It seems Peter forgot Jesus teaching. Mark 7 and Romans both refer to the diet laws being no longer applicable, though NT teaching specifically says dont judge on matters of diet. The dream it seems reminded Peter.

INTJ-F · Jun 10, 2011

It seems Peter forgot Jesus teaching. Mark 7 and Romans both refer to the diet laws being no longer applicable, though NT teaching specifically says dont judge on matters of diet. The dream it seems reminded Peter.

Mark 7 is about the hand washing ritual of the Pharisees

NT teachings are about judging meat eaters versus vegetarians / vegans. Absolutely nowhere in the NT does it teach the dietary laws are invalid. If it had, it would have been rejected as false. Peter's vision was about gentiles no longer being clean as the passage goes on to interpret itself. If it were about eating swine, Peter would have rejected it as being false - as it was, he wondered about its meaning since he knew it could never be about eating animals God called an abomination to eat.

People will continue to justify their sin - and Messiah Yeshua will reject them for disobeying God no matter how much they "do works for Him"

Lawless = Without Torah
Doing the will of the Father = do not sin (IE: obey His laws == Torah)

Matthew 7

13 Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. 15"Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.
22 Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS

Why Christian not allowed eat to pig?

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Fear nothing but God.

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Fear nothing but God.

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.

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