"Why can't you be more like your Christ, you ----- Christian??"

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While there are certainly examples of Christians who dishonor the Lord with their sin, we must also consider that obedient Christians will garner the world's hatred. I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." [Jn. 15:18-19]

TimRout said:

I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.

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Just nonbelievers, Tim? /jk

TimRout said:

While there are certainly examples of Christians who dishonor the Lord with their sin, we must also consider that obedient Christians will garner the world's hatred. I'm a strong proponent of Lordship Salvation, and therefore expect nonbelievers like Ghandi to detest me.

"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you." [Jn. 15:18-19]

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Free Grace advocates may not be too thrilled with you either.

Though personally, I'm thinking the truth may be somewhere between the two: Lordship Salvation seems too legalistic, while Free Grace may be too antinomian.

Unfortunately, witnessing does involve a lot of explanation about Christian behavior. Most of the time that people say things like "Christians act evil" or things of that sort, it's kind of illogical. In any other context, we wouldn't even take the person seriously (i.e., a salesman who is black comes to someone's door and they say "Black people are so mean! I know you're going to mistreat me!" That person would be seen as extremely ignorant, not "justified" in their opinion). But nevertheless, as ambassadors of Christ we must be compassionate and still work with the person.

The key is to explain that Christianity can't be judged by its followers because we are imperfect in our sinful flesh. It must be judged by the Bible and Christ Himself. And where is the malice or "mean behavior" in Christ not even retaliating against his accusers and killers? Where is the "attitude" in Him praying for forgiveness for those who spit on Him? Where is the "jerkiness" in dying on the cross and taking God Almighty's wrath for us?

As someone who witnesses toi strangers weekly, I can assure that many people do issue complaints about Christian behavior. But you can kindly explain that that is not how to judge our faith. And of course, in our own lives, we must be Christ-like! People don't see God as Holy, because His children are not acting that way! So let's all step our game up so people know we have been with Christ. God bless.

The best thing to do with these critical non-believers is to agree with them and say that yes, christians are not perfect but Christ is. Say that we're saved by grace, freely admit we need to be more like our blessed Lord. Someone I know wanted to use me for an excuse to not serve God. The spirit of God came upon me and told me what to tell her. I said, yes, maybe sometimes I do fail God about some things, but that does not mean the bible is not true. I said you will still have to be saved or go to hell. She was speechless. She got saved not too long after that.

To me there are two types of Christians...I am sad to say this. You get the ones who try to live the word for the sake of living the word...these in my opinion are the true believers. They believe and live the word to the best of their abillity.
Then you get the rest. They either want people to see how righteous they are by denouncing others. Or they do it because their parents were christians and so were their parents etc. In fact, anyone who are "Christian" for reasons other than spiritual fufillment. Non believers tend to latch on to these people...for it's easier to remember the negative than the positive. This is my personal reason why I believe that non believers tend to have a problem with believers.

*pls excuse my english...it's not my first language

NJBeliever said:

The key is to explain that Christianity can't be judged by its followers because we are imperfect in our sinful flesh.

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God is invisible, God's followers are the only thing that unbelievers have to go on, so it doesn't matter if unbelievers are right or wrong to judge Christianity on the behavior of its followers, they are going to do it anyway and we need to deal with it.

Telling them that their objection to Christiniaty/its Followers is not legitimate is not going to help matters. Why would someone want to convert to the religion of a bunch of jerks? It's a legitimate concern.

I look at the islamic terrorists on the news and I'd be lying if I were to say that it hasn't affected my view of Islam, whether or not I'm wrong or right for doing so.

They will know we are Christians by our love for eachother. Alot of Christians (myself included) can't even show basic respect to other Christians, which makes the likelihood of unbelievers being 'wowed' by our love extremely small.

Lemmiwinks said:

God is invisible, God's followers are the only thing that unbelievers have to go on, so it doesn't matter if unbelievers are right or wrong to judge Christianity on the behavior of its followers, they are going to do it anyway and we need to deal with it.

Telling them that their objection to Christiniaty/its Followers is not legitimate is not going to help matters. Why would someone want to convert to the religion of a bunch of jerks? It's a legitimate concern.

I look at the islamic terrorists on the news and I'd be lying if I were to say that it hasn't affected my view of Islam, whether or not I'm wrong or right for doing so.

They will know we are Christians by our love for eachother. Alot of Christians (myself included) can't even show basic respect to other Christians, which makes the likelihood of unbelievers being 'wowed' by our love extremely small.

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Well said. I completely agree. In 1 John we see that love for our brothers and sisters in Christ is one of the marks of a true believer.

I would also like to add that often those who say they respect Jesus conveniently ignore much about Him such as His references to hell, calling people a brood of vipers, etc. The "Jesus" they claim to like so much is a hippie, benign, powerless weak stereotype, not the real deal, and they want Christians to be like that too.

So, should we be living holy lives for the world to see? Absolutely. Do we still battle our sin natures daily? Absolutely. But if we truly are born again, He is sanctifying us and molding our will more and more to His, and we remain repentant creatures in submission to Him. If a non-believer rejects that evidence, he is without excuse.

jlujan69 said:

We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers.

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Actually, I would beg to differ with this idea. I've heard non-believers say things like that before too, but I don't really believe that they have no problem with Jesus Christ. I think those who say things like that probably haven't read enough of the Bible to have Christ's character revealed to them. In a lot of churches, Jesus Christ is portrayed a lot like a 2,000 year old hippie. He's associated with values like unconditional love, religious pluralism, tolerance, and rebuking those who attempt to judge sin. The focus in some places is on how loving and forgiving Christ is, sort of like an uncle or Santa Claus, but the truth of Christ that the Bible shares is left out of a lot of preaching. Jesus Christ did rebuke those sinners who attempted to judge and condemn their fellow sinners, but he was no lover of sin. He condemned it repeatedly and encouraged righteousness. He was opposed to self-righteousness and pride in mocking others' sin but promoted gentle correction from within the community. He was not the sort of free love, anything goes, do what you want figure he is made out to be in a lot of places, including some churches. I think when people say they like Jesus but not Christians, they are saying they like the watered down, carefree version of Jesus presented to them, but not the real Christ of the Bible, who tells us the only way through God is through him.

Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?

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I think Christians do need to be careful how we present the Bible and the methods we use when witnessing. We're human, so sometimes emotions come up, but I think we need to do our best to control them. When people lose their temper and allow themselves to get riled up by the behavior of non-believers, it makes Christianity look bad; after all, if we claim to have the truth why would we be acting that way? And I do think there are legitimate concerns from non-believers. If we act too self-righteous or smug, we alienate others. There needs to be balance and we need to present the truth and let it speak for itself. That's the best way, I think, is to let the truth persuade on its own merits, without trying to engage in any gimmicks or fear tactics like hellfire preaching or hell house fear-mongering, etc. If we trust the Bible is the word of God, we don't need to get emotional or angry in its defense. If it's true, it can stand up to criticism and skepticism.

I have been hit with that ghandi line a few times also.. I like to remind people that ghandi died a hindu so his knowledge of Christ was obviously not very good. Likewise he should have been more concerned with the hindu caste system than the behavior of Christians.. many foreigners of hindu and islam wrongly think everyone in the USA is a Christian. I have no idea where they got this idea. They also often confuse all Christians with Catholics and the purges and atrocities of that church. They have never really studied Christianity, they do not realize that non-catholic christians suffered the inquisitions. but much of what they know is rumor and hearsay. And that even includes Ghandi ... He died a Hindu, he did not know Christ. His opinion is meaningless.

Christians act evil

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Relatively there are just as much christians that do bad things as any other belief or non-believer. I would not believe anyone who would contradict this. This makes this accusation unvalid. It's not christianity or your belief what makes you act evil. It is being human, what makes people do bad things. When people kill in name of a religion, it's not the religion that's wrong, it's the people who follow it.

I completely agree with You !! Christians are not infalible , true Christians try not to commit sin for sinnings sake . A true Christian will Use the word and Prayer and the Gentle leading of the Holy Spirit to Keep them on their walk with Jesus .

When a true Christian who walks with Christ daily, the Holy Spirit will not allow Him to commit any sort of evil, it is only when they slip away from His leading that they fall into the pit of temptation. But Praise God If a Christian is tempted the Lord will provide a way out for them if they remain steadfast. and turn their faces toward Jesus their Savior.

As for those Who give into temptation God is faithful . If they turn from their wicked ways and be transformed by the renewing of their minds and ask forgiveness for their sins He will forgive them of their Sins For His goodness and Love knows no bounds and His Mercy shall endure forever....Dave

jlujan69 said:

We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers. Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?

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Matt.10:22
All men will you hate because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

jlujan69 said:

We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers. Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?

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No, no excuse. If Christ is rejected, the "hearer" will be held accountable. It is also written that even the heavens declare His glory. The Holy Spirit draws man and speaks to his heart. The fact that we have "consciences" is another declaration of God. Even a child, as i was, knows the "prickings" of their conscience and thus must wonder "what" or "Whom" is behind those prickings that is prompting us to do the right thing.

The quote in ref to Gandhi, indicates that he was aware of Who Christ was, and sorta acknowledged Jesus the cHrist was a "good man", so he knew "about" Christ. Yet he rejected Him. God holds anyonre that does such, accountable.

God declares to us that who seeks Him with all their hearts WILL find Him.

It is written.

Miss Elly said:

The best thing to do with these critical non-believers is to agree with them and say that yes, christians are not perfect but Christ is. Say that we're saved by grace, freely admit we need to be more like our blessed Lord.

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That's true. And sometimes, we as Christians aren't really the witnesses that we should be, and engage in various arguments about what Bible translations to read or not to read, what music styles are holy or unholy, and other opinions and convictions that vary among believers. And there stands the unbeliever, wondering why the Christians have to fight so much over the littlest things, like what colors the church carpet should be, which teaching curriculums are better for the Sunday School classes, and so on. Some issues are fine to debate about within reason, but when they get out of hand, they cease to be debates.

Also, there's the matter of leading by example. It's fine if we want to talk the talk -- but we should be making sure we're walking the walk, as well.

Believe me, I know I'm not perfect, and know I have many things to work on, myself. That's why I like to be careful as possible, while trying to be a witness, not to be too judgmental, but speak the truth in love. Then trust that God will do the work as He sees fit, after we've done our best to plant the seed, and speak out for what is pure and against what is impure.

(And for those who may not understand exactly what I'm getting at: I am not, in any way, shape, or form, excusing lukewarmness. I'm just saying that there matters that are truly Biblical, while there are others that are a matter of opinion, such as what I mentioned in my first paragraph.)

Hope this makes sense.

God bless.

nhisname said:

Matt.10:22
All men will you hate because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

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AMEN to that!

jlujan69 said:

We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers. Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?

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people that use that line are just showing they have no idea who Jesus was or what he actually taught.

Jesus many times had whole crowds wanting to kill him for what he said.

If he happened to have had his ministry now instead of 2000 years ago he'd still be preaching about repetance of sin and the evil of the world, and that is what unbelievers dislike.

There's kind of a myth that's been spread over the years that Jesus was some kind of anti-establishment hippy that just taught about peace and love and never condemnded anyone. That's the concept of "jesus" most unbelievers think existed.

jlujan69 said:

We often hear an unbeliever say how he has no problem with Jesus, just his followers. Ghandi is credited with saying as much. Yet, just how legit is that argument? I mean, of course, we try to present the Gospel truthfully, clearly, and in love as well as live righteously ourselves, but in the end, are we not still Christ's ambassadors and laborers in this vast harvest field? When we witness to an unbeliever and he rejects it, does he actually have an excuse in the Bible's view?

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No excuse.