ReformedChapin
Chapin = Guatemalan
I am educated on the topic thank you very much, and I will report this comment to the staff as a plain insult to me.
how am I supposed to find the article? magic?
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I am educated on the topic thank you very much, and I will report this comment to the staff as a plain insult to me.I don't think anybody is expecting you to accept the titles. There is enough information in those titles for you to look up the articles and actually educate yourself on the topic. If you consider that a "waste of time" that is your problem.
Well considering that there wasn’t a comparison rather a statement of fact that neither is the result of a genetic disorder…it would be pretty difficult to insult anyone.[/size][/font]
Many blacks find the comparison between gays and blacks as an insult.
And being Jewish is not the result of a “genetic defect” eitherThe only thing that is shared in common is one of having faced prejudice. But, so have the Jews. Horrendously.
Why is prejudice against blacks or Jews wrong but prejudice against homosexuals OK?And, so have criminals. What has one thing have to do with the other? All people that societies are prejudiced against have to be right?
My point is that perhaps you should actually read the bible you quote so often.Yet, God would not allow for them to be made into sex slaves as it was common in pagan nations where homosexuality was also seen as a norm. Your point was?
I think slaves were much happier under Jews than the pagans. They were treated like family in many cases.
I am educated on the topic thank you very much, and I will report this comment to the staff as a plain insult to me.
how am I supposed to find the article? magic?
Here's an example:how am I supposed to find the article? magic?
You go to any local library and you find the American Journal of Psychoanalysis (if they don't have the journal you are looking for, you can move on to the next one or ask a librarian to order it for you from another library). You find the issue from June of 1995, and turn to page 103. There should be an article there by somebody called Wood. The article should be called "Evolutions of an orientation concerning the nature of male homosexualities."Wood, EC Evolutions of an orientation concerning the nature of the male homosexualities. Am J Psychoanal. 1995 Jun;55(2):103-20; discussion 121-7.
My point is that perhaps you should actually read the bible you quote so often.
“When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11)
so God would not allow foreign slaves to be made into sex slaves…but any Hebrew could sell his daughter to be a sex slave…and that was all right.
Daem DR, Byron KA. Alpha 1-antitrypsin phenotypes in homosexual men.Pathology. 1989 Apr;21(2):91-2.
Just a small sample of the thousands of scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals showing a biological origin for sexual orientation.
As noted there exists no, REPEAT NO, single bit of equivalent evidence that homosexuality is somehow a choice, the result of choice.
You're absolutely right. They should have just let the women fend for themselves in the inhospitable desert. The reasons for slavery in ancient Israel was a protective device for the members of society that would not be able to survive on their own.
When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)This statement is not saying "all women were slaves" or "all men were slaves", but those who were slaves, were, by law, treated well so long as they also followed the law. The women who were in slavery were provided far more comforts than the men were, as well. "Sex slaves"? Hardly.
Gee if you actually took the time to check out this one source as you are trying to claim here then you might of actually read that the disease in question not only affects homosexual men significantly more than heterosexual men and the disease is genetic implying a connection between a genetic origin for sexual orientation[/font][/size]
That is categorically untrue. I took the time to check out this one source. It speaks of the incidence of a disease disorder found more commonly in homosexual men. It has nothing to do with what the origin is.
A small portion of a longer list of published scientific studies providing evidence that sexual oriention is an inborn traitYou just simply quoted a long list of what appears to be references to make your point.
That was a smoke screen if I ever saw one. My interest in nutrition and a familiarity with some of the terminology caused me to be drawn to that one reference. It had NOTHING to do with a genetic cause for homosexuality. It would be like saying homosexual men are more prone to migraine headaches than heterosexual males. Just a smoke screen in the way you presented it...
The relationships are referred to as being unnatural. the Greek words physin and paraphysin have been translated to mean natural and unnatural respectively. Contrary to popular belief, the word paraphysin does not mean "to go against the laws of nature", but rather engage in action(s) which is uncharacteristic for that person. An example of the word paraphysin is used in Romans 11:24, where God acts in an uncharacteristic (paraphysin) way to accept the Gentiles. Thus the passages correctly reads that it would be unnatural for heterosexuals to live as homosexuals, and for homosexuals to live as heterosexuals. This is not a condemnation of homosexuals rather it is a condemnation of ex-gay ministries.How do you explain the following?
What did God do? Alter their genes? One minute they are heterosexual? The next? Flaming gays?Romans 1:24-27 niv"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorwho is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."
So wearing gold jewelry is a spiritual issue??? and eating shrimp is a spiritual issue???Homosexuality is a SPIRITUAL issue. That is why God condemns it.
Did you really expect people to see a laundry list of 'studies' that have no links or other corroborating information and accept them without question? If these studies can stand up under scrutiny and back up your claims then I would think you'd love posting more in-depth information. I'd certainly like to see it.Just a small sample of the thousands of scientific studies published in peer reviewed journals showing a biological origin for sexual orientation.
Well I don't know about 'evidence' in the sense of scientific facts, but I have personal evidence that someone I prayed for who was gay for their entire life and then became straight, went on to marry and is very happy. To me that's the best kind of evidence, first hand stuff.As noted there exists no, REPEAT NO, single bit of equivalent evidence that homosexuality is somehow a choice, the result of choice. No evidence that homosexuality is the result of ones relationship with either parent, that homosexuality is the result of a distant or absent father. No evidence that homosexuality is the result of family structure. No evidence that homosexuality is the result of any psychological sociological, or familial factor.
Well considering that there wasnt a comparison rather a statement of fact that neither is the result of a genetic disorder it would be pretty difficult to insult anyone.
And being Jewish is not the result of a genetic defect either
You brining up prejudice and implying that hit is bad but you dont seem to have issue with justifying prejudice against homosexuals. Are you saying that prejudice against a minority is bad only for certain minorities?
Why is prejudice against blacks or Jews wrong but prejudice against homosexuals OK?
My point is that perhaps you should actually read the bible you quote so often.
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11
so God would not allow foreign slaves to be made into sex slaves but any Hebrew could sell his daughter to be a sex slave and that was all right.
A lot of antebellum white folk treated their slaves like family too and boy that made everything just nifty didnt it? all those happy Negro slaves just singin spirituals and the white folk working hard to make sure they were all happy.
First you are grasping at straws and now you are grasping at stawmen. The whoppers keep getting bigger. The straw is all the so called evidence lying in a trail of failure behind the desperate attempts to find evidence for what is not there.so the whole idea smacks of strawman-ery anyway.
edit: I love this argument, because, not only does it have strawmanish overtones, but it actually fails to knock down the strawman. Which begs the question--what's the point of a strawman if you can't defeat it?
Now this is a good example of a strawman. You completely ignore the argument quoted from a pro-tolerance website to put forward your own poor explanation which is easier for you to shoot down.The idea is that, because a gay person is less likely to procreate, if homosexuality was genetic it would have been wiped out.
Well at least we agree on something. It is a place to start. I especially like the "waaaaay too complicated" part, for I most definitely agree about that. So many factors involved: physiological, psychological, and sociological. And the psychological factors are the most complex of them all. The complexity of all these different influences from all the different aspects of life are what make human choices something which no other person can hope to judge or understand. Which influences to embrace as the reasons for our actions is something we must do ourselves. That is why we must respect the choices that people make about how how they will live their lives. The only human being with any hope of making a choice among all these influences that will bring them happiness is the one whose life it is. Only God can do better and He is quite capable of providing any help that is required Himself.Of course, attraction is waaaaay too complicated to be controlled by "a gay gene," and I think it's fairly well understood that no such gene can exist,
Did you really expect people to see a laundry list of 'studies' that have no links or other corroborating information and accept them without question? If these studies can stand up under scrutiny and back up your claims then I would think you'd love posting more in-depth information. I'd certainly like to see it.
Well I don't know about 'evidence' in the sense of scientific facts, but I have personal evidence that someone I prayed for who was gay for their entire life and then became straight, went on to marry and is very happy. To me that's the best kind of evidence, first hand stuff.
Gee if you actually took the time to check out this one source as you are trying to claim here then you might of actually read that the disease in question not only affects homosexual men significantly more than heterosexual men and the disease is genetic implying a connection between a genetic origin for sexual orientation
Alpha 1-antitrypsin phenotypes in homosexual men.
Pathology. 1989 Apr;21(2):91-2. Unique Identifier : AIDSLINE MED/90045686
Deam DR; Byron KA; Ratnaike S; Campbell DG; Mulhall BP; Mackay IR; Biochemistry Department, Royal Melbourne Hospital.
Abstract: The alpha 1-antitrypsin (AAT) phenotype was determined by isoelectric focusing in 215 male homosexuals and compared with those in 208 male heterosexuals. The incidence of abnormal phenotypes was 16.3% in the homosexual group which was significantly different (p less than 0.03) than the 8.7% in the heterosexual group. There was no difference in the phenotype distribution between homosexuals who were anti-human immunodeficiency virus reactive and those who were non-reactive. It suggests that investigation into the interplay of factors associated with homosexuality could include genetic as well as psychological and social factors.
A small portion of a longer list of published scientific studies providing evidence that sexual oriention is an inborn trait
Smokescreen?
Well please share with us all references for studies published in peer-reviewed journals indicating that homosexuality is the result of a choice, conscious or otherwise.
Homosexuality is believed wear many out. That is one reason we use the term, "f_gged out," to mean exhausted.
Great! Pick one and show us the hard facts. I'm very interested.Would be happy to discuss any of these studies in depth.
What kind of evidence are you looking for?Evidence as in those making claims about the origins and nature of homosexuality as a result of some choice or some psychological or familial trait/factor have been unable to provide evidence to back up those claims.
Again, I'm not sure what kind of evidence it is that you seek. I do know of a doctor who surveyed 975 prison inmates who were gay and every single one stated they had a dysfunctional relationship with their father. No matter how you look at it, that's pretty strong!The practitioners of so-called reparative therapy claim that homosexuals are homosexual because of a dysfunctional relationship with their father. However they are unable to support this claim either by providing evidence that this is an actual causal effect or statistically support it.. They are also unable to explain homosexuals who do not have a dysfunctional relationship with their fathers and they are unable to explain heterosexuals who have a dysfunctional relationship with their father.
You're doing this discussion a great disservice by comparing people who once were gay and are now straight with those who were abducted by aliens. Trying to make them look like some sort kook or freak is terrible and if this is the type or line of reasoning your going to go down I'm not going to participate.As for your first hand evidence. There are many who will testify that they have been abducted by UFOs is such evidence for the existence of extraterrestrials?
Again, I'm not sure what kind of evidence it is that you seek. I do know of a doctor who surveyed 975 prison inmates who were gay and every single one stated they had a dysfunctional relationship with their father. No matter how you look at it, that's pretty strong!
and your original claim was:http://www.aegis.com/aidsline/1990/feb/M9020420.html
It mentions, "associated with homosexuality."
The aspects surrounding the sexual life.
It says nothing conclusive.
"Suggests," and "could" do not indicate anything was conclusive by any means. Speculation is not providing one with something which is proof positive.
genez said:That is categorically untrue. I took the time to check out this one source. It speaks of the incidence of a disease disorder found more commonly in homosexual men. It has nothing to do with what the origin is.
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=27462112&postcount=446
Um you might want to oh I dont know actually look up the etymology of that f word before you make ridiculous and false claims like thisHomosexuality is believed wear many out. That is one reason we use the term, "f_gged out," to mean exhausted.
Which has well absolutely nothing to do with well anything here.The immune system is weakened by stress and depression. Making one more prone to diseases one is exposed to.
Well there is silence for those not honest enough to actually look. But not everyone is willing to close their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears just to keep a tenuous grasp on their personal prejudices.It would be in the headlines of every news media outlet if it could be proven true. All we have is silence.
Thank you for admitting that you cannot support the claims that homosexuality is the result of some sort of choice.When did you choose to believe in Jesus Christ?
Much of the process that brings us to that point is done in the subconscious mind long before we become conscious of our belief. Because?
Its a spiritual issue. Not a mental issue.
To bad you cant actually back that claim up.The issue was not genetics. The reason was spiritual!
Well lets start with:Great! Pick one and show us the hard facts. I'm very interested.
What kind of evidence are you looking for?
Question: how many heterosexual prison inmates had a dysfunctional relationship with their father?Again, I'm not sure what kind of evidence it is that you seek. I do know of a doctor who surveyed 975 prison inmates who were gay and every single one stated they had a dysfunctional relationship with their father. No matter how you look at it, that's pretty strong!
Why?You're doing this discussion a great disservice by comparing people who once were gay and are now straight with those who were abducted by aliens. Trying to make them look like some sort kook or freak is terrible and if this is the type or line of reasoning your going to go down I'm not going to participate.
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