Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

BobRyan · Jul 20, 2014

BobRyan said:
1. What you call "rough history" is a euphemism for "estinguished forever" and done by "the all the fulness of apostolic power" that the Pope has.

Thus to bring back the Jesuit order after that sort of for-ever extermination - is to undercut the power/authority of the Pontiffs themselves when they make statements in "all the fulness of their apostolic power".

2. It is not Seventh-day Adventists doing that - it is Pope Clement XIV.

Everything that is not flattering about Jesuit history cannot be blamed on some non-Catholic scapegoat.

3. If the Jesuit order of today is not eh Jesuit order of the 18th century - then prove it. What has been admitted to by the Jesuits as "Wrong"??

What agreement/charter/mission statement have they said they changed that would address Clement's long list of complaints?

News flash - the Pope himself extinguished the Jesuit order "forever" by "All the Apostolic power" that there is in the "seat of Peter" --

the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY:

Papal statement abolishing the Jesuit order 1773. Clement XIV

"in the present case, we are determining upon the fate of a society classed among the mendicant orders, both by its institute and by its privileges; after a mature deliberation, we do, out of our certain knowledge, and the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY: we deprive it of all activity whatever
...
And to this end a member of the regular clergy, recommendable for his prudence and sound morals, shall be chosen to preside over and govern the said houses; so that the name of the Company shall be, and is, for ever extinguished and suppressed."

=======================================

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
Care to expand on this point? Cause i have zero idea what you are getting at, since not only did the jesuits stay loyal to the roman church, but the current Pontiff is a Jesuit and why on earth would he undercut his own ex cathedra authority? This makes no sense.

"

Now you have the quote from the Pope himself - if you need a link to the full statement abolishing the Jesuits - I can provide that too.

That is not an SDA document.

All facts that are not flattering to Jesuits - cannot be blamed on some non-Catholic group.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Jul 20, 2014

Rick Otto said:
Maybe you wouldn't laugh if the fact was, the pope suppressed your order in 1776 in a brief called "Dominus ac Redemptor".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_the_Society_of_Jesus

There is the crux of the problem

Mama Kidogo · Jul 20, 2014

Rhamiel said:
ok, there was political intrigue

from looking at that time period, seems like there was a lot of political intrigue going around

the countries that were pushing for the suppression of the Jesuits were countries where the House of Bourbon was the ruling house.

Jesuits make a vow of obedience to the Pope, monarchies were trying to get more power over the Church in their country

we can see that go back and forth between Church and State for hundreds of years, the view that the State should be over the Church is called Gallicanism
Gallicanism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not saying that the Jesuits were lil goodie two shoes who never did anything to provoke others
but putting them in the same league as the NWO seems out there

they did have political problems

and you are right, the Counter Reformation (and the Reformation for that matter) played political games
but a lot of it was just preaching

Seems we needs some demons to concentrate upon so we don't have to look in the mirror. Yeah! Let's blame the Jesuits for our lack of love. Let's point to the faults of others and just maybe, folks won't notice our hate and see us as super Christians. Excuse me while I go off bragging how I don't eat pork and pray to the Ten Commandments.

Targaryen · Jul 20, 2014

BobRyan said:
News flash - the Pope himself extinguished the Jesuit order "forever" by "All the Apostolic power" that there is in the "seat of Peter" --

the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY:

Papal statement abolishing the Jesuit order 1773. Clement XIV

"in the present case, we are determining upon the fate of a society classed among the mendicant orders, both by its institute and by its privileges; after a mature deliberation, we do, out of our certain knowledge, and the fulness of our apostolical power, SUPPRESS AND ABOLISH THE SAID COMPANY: we deprive it of all activity whatever
...
And to this end a member of the regular clergy, recommendable for his prudence and sound morals, shall be chosen to preside over and govern the said houses; so that the name of the Company shall be, and is, for ever extinguished and suppressed."

=======================================

Now you have the quote from the Pope himself - if you need a link to the full statement abolishing the Jesuits - I can provide that too.

That is not an SDA document.

All facts that are not flattering to Jesuits - cannot be blamed on some non-Catholic group.

in Christ,

Bob

Which has thus been repealed in the time SINCE Clement XIV. again, doesn't make your conspricy theory "theology" any less irrelevant.

You can't even understand that the Jesuits were allowed to regain the former stature in the catholic structure, you just have to break out old papal ex cathedra statements in order to justify this conspiracy theory that has been debunked time and time again.

Targaryen · Jul 20, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
Seems we needs some demons to concentrate upon so we don't have to look in the mirror. Yeah! Let's blame the Jesuits for our lack of love. Let's point to the faults of others and just maybe, folks won't notice our hate and see us as super Christians. Excuse me while I go off bragging how I don't eat pork and pray to the Ten Commandments.

I know right?

Mama Kidogo · Jul 21, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
I know right?

I'm wondering whether to laugh or be disgusted. seems Bob gives the pope more authority than the Catholic does. I guess he has to for the goofy Antichrist conspiracy theory to work a bit longer.
I heard that the last pope was definitely the Antichrist from nearly every SDA member I came across. Then, Whoops, he retired . So instead of just saying, "My bad" they conjure up a conspiracy on the next guy and act like they never said a word against Benedict. Gee, how utterly honest of them. NOT.
Don't you just love ever changing excuse filled prophecy?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jul 21, 2014

On a side note and because I have no other place to post this and I just thought it funny:

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"
The man below says: "Yes, you're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field."
You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.
"I am" replies the man. "How did you know."
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but it's no use to anyone."
The man below says "you must be in management."
"I am" replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you're going, but you expect me to be able to help. You're in the same position you were before we met, but now it's my fault."

Mama Kidogo · Jul 21, 2014

maid in His image said:
On a side note and because I have no other place to post this and I just thought it funny:

A man is flying in a hot air balloon and realizes he is lost. He reduces height and spots a man down below. He lowers the balloon further and shouts: "Excuse me, can you tell me where I am?"
The man below says: "Yes, you're in a hot air balloon, hovering 30 feet above this field."
You must be an engineer" says the balloonist.
"I am" replies the man. "How did you know."
"Well," says the balloonist, "everything you have told me is technically correct, but it's no use to anyone."
The man below says "you must be in management."
"I am" replies the balloonist, "but how did you know?"
"Well," says the man, "you don't know where you are, or where you're going, but you expect me to be able to help. You're in the same position you were before we met, but now it's my fault."

Right smack dab on topic

BobRyan · Jul 21, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
I'm wondering whether to laugh or be disgusted. seems Bob gives the pope more authority than the Catholic does.

I would say that is pretty funny - that anyone could believe that the pope speaking "in all the fulness of Apostolic power" is totally "insignificant to Catholics".

My only point here is that you can't blame Seventh-day Adventists (or any other non-Catholic) for what Pope Clement XIV said about the Jesuit order being evil and that it is declared forever wiped off the face of the earth because of it and by "all the fulness of apostolic power".

If on the other hand the defense of Jesuits requires that Catholics consider "all the fulness of Apostolic power" to be "mere nothing" when it comes to popes - as the rest of us do -- I am more than happy to see Catholics say it.

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Jul 21, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
Which has thus been repealed in the time SINCE Clement XIV. .

no need to convince me that the Pope speaking "in all the fulness of apostolic power" is pretty much meaningless.

I am just surprised that Catholics would jump on that idea as if "yeah... that's the ticket".

My point is that Clement "is not a non-catholic much less an SDA" and that their own pope provides the list of condemning actions they participated in - in history - cannot be blamed on "so many mean non-Catholics... SDAs are the only ones that notice a problem in the Jesuit order" - the way some nonsense gets put out there from time to time.

you know... ."the obvious points" impossible to refute.

We can all see them.

in Christ,

Bob

MoreCoffee · Jul 21, 2014

BobRyan, how long was the Society of Jesus suppressed and why was the Society of Jesus suppressed?

Targaryen · Jul 21, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
BobRyan, how long was the Society of Jesus suppressed and why was the Society of Jesus suppressed?

This should be an interesting answer....

MoreCoffee · Jul 21, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
This should be an interesting answer....

I hope so

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jul 21, 2014

LiberalAnglicanCatholic said:
This should be an interesting answer....

How long do you think you'll have to wait before BobRyan answers?

Targaryen · Jul 21, 2014

maid in His image said:
How long do you think you'll have to wait before BobRyan answers?

I don't know...could be a while if he can't answer Coffee's question without some random conspiracy theory to run off on.

But I'm slightly cynical when it comes to that type of thing.

MoreCoffee · Jul 21, 2014

maid in His image said:
How long do you think you'll have to wait before BobRyan answers?

He's rather good about answering so I am confident that he will reply when he is available to do so.

Mama Kidogo · Jul 21, 2014

maid in His image said:
How long do you think you'll have to wait before BobRyan answers?

I proclaim it to be forever. But apparently that is a subjective amount of time.

MoreCoffee · Jul 21, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
I proclaim it to be forever. But apparently that is a subjective amount of time.

That reminds me about the JW bible (NWT) which almost never says "forever" they translate the Hebrew as "to time indefinite" in their 1984 AD edition; I wonder if they have fixed that clumsy phrase in the 2013 AD edition ...

Mama Kidogo · Jul 21, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
That reminds me about the JW bible (NWT) which almost never says "forever" they translate the Hebrew as "to time indefinite" in their 1984 AD edition; I wonder if they have fixed that clumsy phrase in the 2013 AD edition ...

I hear that forever word used a lot. Just last night as I was making supper my daughter said it was taking forevvvvvvvver.

Citizen of the Kingdom · Jul 21, 2014

Mama Kidogo said:
I hear that forever word used a lot. Just last night as I was making supper my daughter said it was taking forevvvvvvvver.

Forevvvvvah is how they say it round here lol

Why are SDA so paraoid of Jesuits?

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