Why are families #1

[DD73]

It's in all our family movies, driven by the media, announced over the radio, and plastered at our shopping malls.

But Jesus just has to say this;

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Comeon what do you really think he's saying, that your love for him must make your love for your family pale.

Yes?

And I think much more.

 

[Serving Zion]

It's in all our family movies, driven by the media, announced over the radio, and plastered at our shopping malls.

But Jesus just has to say this;

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Comeon what do you really think he's saying, that your love for him must make your love for your family pale.

Yes?

And I think much more.

Since when does a person not see The Holy Spirit in their Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter?

(NOT a rhetorical question - you need to pinpoint exactly the moment that destruction enters the family unit).

 

[Solomons Porch]

God is first, family is second.
If your life is put in the order, you will not fail.

 

[DD73]

Since when does a person not see The Holy Spirit in their Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter?

(NOT a rhetorical question - you need to pinpoint exactly the moment that destruction enters the family unit).

Since Satan entered the world.

And therefore Jesus continues;

Luk 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

 

[DD73]

God is first, family is second.
If your life is put in the order, you will not fail.

Yes that is the formula

But Jesus continues;

Mar 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

 

[Serving Zion]

Since Satan entered the world.

How have you decided this to be the right answer? Please include quotes of any relevant scriptures, if necessary.

 

[DD73]

How have you decided this to be the right answer? Please include quotes of any relevant scriptures, if necessary.

Don't get my goat, I've given you enough relevant scripture so far.

 

[Serving Zion]

Don't get my goat, I've given you enough relevant scripture so far.

Ok, well it doesn't need to stop the discussion.

You made an assumption in your answer. The assumption suggests that The Holy Spirit is never observed in a Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter, because they have all been born after Satan entered the world. This does not seem consistent with given scriptures:

Jesus says that He is in whoever it is that stays in Him (John 15:4). He also says that we must not despise the little ones, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such ones (Matthew 19:14), and to a sinner he said "unless you turn around and become as a little child, you will by no means enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 18:3).

Then if I was forming my answer from your perspective, I would have said the precise moment that someone does not see The Holy Spirit in their Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter, is the precise moment that Satan enters into that one.

I'm quite keen to watch how you will answer this seeming contradiction. You are quite a thinker!

 

[DD73]

Ok, well it doesn't need to stop the discussion.

You made an assumption in your answer. The assumption suggests that The Holy Spirit is never observed in a Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter, because they have all been born after Satan entered the world. This does not seem consistent with given scriptures:

Jesus says that He is in whoever it is that stays in Him (John 15:4). He also says that we must not despise the little ones, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such ones (Matthew 19:14), and to a sinner he said "unless you turn around and become as a little child, you will by no means enter the kingdom of God" (Matthew 18:3).

Then if I was forming my answer from your perspective, I would have said the precise moment that someone does not see The Holy Spirit in their Mum, Dad, Son or Daughter, is the precise moment that Satan enters into that one.

I'm quite keen to watch how you will answer this seeming contradiction. You are quite a thinker!

I said Satan entered the world, not people.

I surmise that Satan is behind the family first policy.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Yes that is the formula

But Jesus continues;

Mar 3:35 For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

Thats right......we are a spiritual family as well as blood family. Which means we are all equal and the love for each is the same. And I can see that you already know this, that IF WE DO THE WILL OF GOD therefore it all falls into place. Love casts out all fear and love never fails (in Christ).

 

[DD73]

Thats right......we are a spiritual family as well as blood family. Which means we are all equal and the love for each is the same. And I can see that you already know this, that IF WE DO THE WILL OF GOD therefore it all falls into place. Love casts out all fear and love never fails (in Christ).

Personally my family are a pack of demons, nothing falls into place with them.

 

[Serving Zion]

I said Satan entered the world, not people.

I surmise that Satan is behind the family first policy.

"Let no man separate what God has put together."
"A man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, to become one flesh."

God's eternal law stipulates that a family is a sacred arrangement. Any other arrangement is against the natural order of things.

"He who stays in love stays in God, and God in him" - 1 John 4:16

There must therefore come a time when the love is destroyed within the family unit, and then God is not found in Mother, Father, Son or Daughter because their sin has severed them from Christ. Otherwise, there would be no conflict between Christ and our family members, because we are all one (Ephesians 4:25).

 

[Solomons Porch]

Personally my family are a pack of demons, nothing falls into place with them.

Im sorry it is that way for you. It is not how God intended it to be. I do know this for a FACT, that one person can change everything when they give their whole life to Christ. I am witnessing the unfolding of this as we speak. There is a young man of only 17 years old. He gave his life to Christ the other day, was delivered from demonic torment. His mom has severe mental problems and dabbles in occult. Within 2 days she has agreed to do away with the occult material and start attending church with him. NOW THAT is the POWER of GOD!! Determination, faith and a Im not backing down attitude....makes a big difference. He is on 17 years old and is changing his whole family. Thru his faith in God and being determined to not let satan win any longer in his family. That is the power of love !!! You can have the same, wont happen with the snap of a finger (sometime it does) but it can and will happen if you believe and receive.

 

[DD73]

"Let no man separate what God has put together."
"A man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, to become one flesh."

God's eternal law stipulates that a family is a sacred arrangement. Any other arrangement is against the natural order of things.

"He who stays in love stays in God, and God in him" - 1 John 4:16

There must therefore come a time when the love is destroyed within the family unit, and then God is not found in Mother, Father, Son or Daughter because their sin has severed them from Christ. Otherwise, there would be no conflict between Christ and our family members, because we are all one (Ephesians 4:25).

But then Jesus goes on and says this;

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

So howbeit that there is no father but one, and there can still be a family unit?

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It's in all our family movies, driven by the media, announced over the radio, and plastered at our shopping malls.

But Jesus just has to say this;

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Comeon what do you really think he's saying, that your love for him must make your love for your family pale.

Yes?

And I think much more.

As someone who has no family - not because they are dead, but because they are malipulative, malicious conniving, psychological and verbally abusive, and downright evil - I certain gained first hand perspective on what Christ meant.

My "circle" - which includes anyone I trust - is very small, but those who are in it would go to war and die for me, and the reverse is likewise. We have the same foundations, and we honor and respect the same things. Those sentences are more than I can say for anyone in my "blood" family. My inner circle is my family.

Those are my mother, dad, brother, sister, uncle, etc., because they represent those archetypal relationships better than my own blood. I think this is but one of the meanings behind His statement: your family is whoever follows Christ; your "blood" is chemistry - that is all.

Now, I think Christ was also making a commentary on relationships and entitlement. Just like He had to teach the Hebrews that just because they are genetic Hebrews doesn't constitute their salvation and position with God, He was showing us the similar situation with family relationships themselves.

Considering these bodies are just bags of chemicals that literally stable through biosystems, and Christ upgraded our responsibilities to spiritual focus and perfection, it makes no sense for us to put any humans on the pedistal of family - unless they follow Christ in the first place.


So, if your uncle, for example, was an abusive, unrepentant conniving cus, then that bit from Christ actually FREES you from the carnal responsibility of familiar loyalty by default. You are free to find your own family who would treat you like a family member - and you can be confident that if this person is a child of God, then the relationship is founded by spirit, not by biochemistry.

 

[DD73]

As someone who has no family - not because they are dead, but because they are malipulative, malicious conniving, psychological and verbally abusive, and downright evil - I certain gained first hand perspective on what Christ meant.

My "circle" - which includes anyone I trust - is very small, but those who are in it would go to war and die for me, and the reverse is likewise. We have the same foundations, and we honor and respect the same things. Those sentences are more than I can say for anyone in my "blood" family. My inner circle is my family.

Those are my mother, dad, brother, sister, uncle, etc., because they represent those archetypal relationships better than my own blood. I think this is but one of the meanings behind His statement: your family is whoever follows Christ; your "blood" is chemistry - that is all.

Now, I think Christ was also making a commentary on relationships and entitlement. Just like He had to teach the Hebrews that just because they are genetic Hebrews doesn't constitute their salvation and position with God, He was showing us the similar situation with family relationships themselves.

Considering these bodies are just bags of chemicals that literally stable through biosystems, and Christ upgraded our responsibilities to spiritual focus and perfection, it makes no sense for us to put any humans on the pedistal of family - unless they follow Christ in the first place.


So, if your uncle, for example, was an abusive, unrepentant conniving cus, then that bit from Christ actually FREES you from the carnal responsibility of familiar loyalty by default. You are free to find your own family who would treat you like a family member - and you can be confident that if this person is a child of God, then the relationship is founded by spirit, not by biochemistry.

Thank you, that's the idea I've had for a few years now.

Nothing more needs to be added by me in this thread now.

 

[Ygrene Imref]

It's in all our family movies, driven by the media, announced over the radio, and plastered at our shopping malls.

But Jesus just has to say this;

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Comeon what do you really think he's saying, that your love for him must make your love for your family pale.

Yes?

And I think much more.

BTW, welcome.

 

[Serving Zion]

But then Jesus goes on and says this;

Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

So howbeit that there is no father but one, and there can still be a family unit?

A study of that word shows that Jesus is naming the one from whom life proceeds (John 1:4):

father; one who imparts life and is committed to it; a progenitor, bringing into being to pass on the potential for likeness.

To take on a likeness includes a physical appearance and a character/personality.

See, then, that Jesus is not using the term "father" to suggest that all His disciples should renounce the truth of their conception, nor to renounce the honour of being a Dad. Referring to Our Heavenly "Father" here, describes the [role-model, mentor, guardian etc] of who we are becoming, just as the term "water" is used in John 4:14 to describe that which proceeds from God to satisfy our thirst for spiritual knowledge.

A healthy family unit consisting of those who honour God, do show forth The Holy Spirit. Their relationships put love and truth in first place, there is no conflict between the members. To love Mum, Dad, Son and Daughter is to love Christ, because they are in Him and He is in them.

Then my first question is central to answering your OP: "Since when does one not see The Holy Spirit in their father?" - it has to be only when the father has abandoned Christ by being disloyal to truth and love. What does it say about a person who does love their dad more than Jesus Christ, when that dad has chosen to abandon and oppose Jesus Christ? Jesus says in Matthew 10:37 that such a person is not worthy of Him, which in fact, is honourable (2 Corinthians 6:14, Proverbs 29:27).

 

[Sketcher]

Jesus also affirmed families:

And he said to them, "You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! For Moses said, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.' But you say, 'If a man tells his father or his mother, "Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban"' (that is, given to God)-- then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do." - Mark 7:9-13​

Matthew 10:37-39 tells us that we are to put God above family. It does not tell us to neglect our families. Family offers us rich opportunities to grow in our love for other people (Mark 12:30-31), and to grow in forgiveness (Matthew 18:21-35). Only if family pushes you to sin or forbids you to become a Christian should you go against them.