Why are Catholics not Orthodox?

[Cary.Melvin]

Why are Catholics not considered Orthodox? They are in communion with their Patriarch (the Bishop of Rome). How is this different than any other Othodox Church under their Patriarch?

And why are there Orthodox Churches in the West? Shouldn't these Churches be under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome?

Thanks,

 

[NewToLife]

Ok, this is dangerous territory and I do not wish to offend but here is what my understanding ( for what it is worth ) is.

Why are Catholics not considered Orthodox? They are in communion with their Patriarch (the Bishop of Rome). How is this different than any other Othodox Church under their Patriarch?

Unfortunately the see of Rome is in Schism with the Church largely over the issue of ecclesiastic authority. The See of Rome has effectively removed itself from the Church by its actions taken in pursuit of these claims.

There is also the issue of innovating new teaching within the See of Rome which may well effect the validity of the apostolic succession claimed by the Roman Catholic Church. Apostolic succession for us demands that apostolic tradition be preserved as well as a line of properly ordained bishops existing.

And why are there Orthodox Churches in the West? Shouldn't these Churches be under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome?

There are Orthodox christians in the west, therefore, given that Rome is in schism and the church has a duty to care for its flock there are Orthodox churches, it's as simple as that.

 

[jameseb]

And why are there Orthodox Churches in the West? Shouldn't these Churches be under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome?

There are Catholic churches in Serbia, Bosnia and Russia... all deep in what you might call Orthodox territory. If by the west you mean America, I think its fairly open territory, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Moros]

.

 

[Moros]

Because they split from the original church and formed their own denomination, which has 1000 years of experience as such. We've got 2000 years of it.

 

[Philip]

Why are Catholics not considered Orthodox?

Becasue the Bishop of Rome broke communion with the other Patriarchs.

They are in communion with their Patriarch (the Bishop of Rome). How is this different than any other Othodox Church under their Patriarch?

The Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Moscow, Cyprus, Serbia...and the others are are in communion with each other. Only the Partiarch of Rome went his own way.

And why are there Orthodox Churches in the West? Shouldn't these Churches be under the jurisdiction of the Patriarch of Rome?

By "the West", I assume you mean the Americas. When Rome separated herself from Orthodoxy, Rome's jurisdiction was Western Europe. It did not include the Americas.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

The Patriarchs of Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Moscow, Cyprus, Serbia...and the others are are in communion with each other. Only the Partiarch of Rome went his own way.

I thoght there were only 5 Patriarchs. Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. I know that the Patriarch of Rome is the sucessor of Peter, But who are the others sucessors of? Other apostles? If so which ones?

Thanks,

 

[OrthodoxTexan]

I thoght there were only 5 Patriarchs. Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria. I know that the Patriarch of Rome is the sucessor of Peter, But who are the others sucessors of? Other apostles? If so which ones?

Thanks,

Antioch - Peter, Jerusalem-James, Alexandria-Mark, Constantinople (Byzantium)-Andrew.

 

[Philip]

I thoght there were only 5 Patriarchs. Rome, Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem and Alexandria.

These are the five Apostolic Patriarchs -- that is, founded by the Apostles. Sometimes, Cyprus is counted as a sixth Apostolic Patriarchs. Later Patriarchs, such as Moscow, were established when the Church to the Gospel to lands beyond those visited by the Apostles.

 

[Michael G]

Catholics are not Orthodox because they caused a schism by changing the Apostolic Faith. The early Church was Conciliar in Nature, it was ruled by the Ecumenical Councils for matters of heresy and by the local councils of bishops for all other matters. These councils never taught that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, they only taught that he proceeds from the Father. A local council of Toledo, Spain arround the year 500 added the the phrase "and of the Son" to the Nicene Creed which reads "The Holy Spirit Proceeds from the Father.." This change was resisted by all of the Patriarchs, Rome included. Rome did not give in to this change until Charlemagne forced the Pope to accept this change under the threat of violence. There is also a big difference in the way the Catholics view original sin and the way Orthodox do. This difference in teaching has led to all kinds of other differences which have sprung up in the West in order to explain the Catholic view of original sin. Finally, Catholics are not Orthodox because they reject the counciliar nature of the Church and teach the Patriarch of Rome has Primacy of Jurisdiction, Universal Jurisdiction and is Infallible. These are the three major differences between Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church. It is for these reasons there is a schism between the Churches. We call ourselves Orthodox Christians because orthodox means correct teaching. Rome can not be Orthodox because it teaches incorrectly, ie. it has added to the Apostolic faith.

 

[Abba]

It was the Byzantine emporor who split from the Catholic Church. He did it because he didnt want to submit to any barbarians from the West.

Rome has always had a special prominence among all the other Churches. It didnt begin with the schism.

 

[Servant of the Kingdom]

Dear Abba

If we don't accept the posibility of being wrong about something, if we are not willing to listen what the other has to say, then there is no hope that the followers of Christ can be together in one Church.

I do assert that the Church is indeed divided, as the Church is nothing but the body of those who profess that Christ is the Lord.

You can hardly imagine how sad, moody, importent, angry at times, this situation makes me feel.

To be honest I have arrived to the point of believing that nobody is in the possesion of the truth, that all in some aspect or another are mistaken.

And what it is indeed more sad, if Jesus were to come today, would He feel proud of any of us at all? I strongly doubt it. And what it's worse, I still think we will prefer to get us stuck in arguments about things we only partially grasp than to simply obey the commands of Jesus Christ.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Catholics are not Orthodox because they caused a schism by changing the Apostolic Faith. The early Church was Conciliar in Nature, it was ruled by the Ecumenical Councils for matters of heresy and by the local councils of bishops for all other matters. These councils never taught that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Son, they only taught that he proceeds from the Father. A local council of Toledo, Spain arround the year 500 added the the phrase "and of the Son" to the Nicene Creed which reads "The Holy Spirit Proceeds from the Father.." This change was resisted by all of the Patriarchs, Rome included. Rome did not give in to this change until Charlemagne forced the Pope to accept this change under the threat of violence. There is also a big difference in the way the Catholics view original sin and the way Orthodox do. This difference in teaching has led to all kinds of other differences which have sprung up in the West in order to explain the Catholic view of original sin. Finally, Catholics are not Orthodox because they reject the counciliar nature of the Church and teach the Patriarch of Rome has Primacy of Jurisdiction, Universal Jurisdiction and is Infallible. These are the three major differences between Orthodoxy and the Roman Catholic Church. It is for these reasons there is a schism between the Churches. We call ourselves Orthodox Christians because orthodox means correct teaching. Rome can not be Orthodox because it teaches incorrectly, ie. it has added to the Apostolic faith.

I'm not here to start a debate. I ask this question honestly. If the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son also, what do you make of:

Jn 20:22 He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

 

[Orthodox Andrew]

I'm not here to start a debate. I ask this question honestly. If the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son also, what do you make of:

Jn 20:22 He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

There's a few reasons why the Orthodox Church is against the Creed saying that. One is because they simply disagree with the statement. Another, is because they feel it can lead to error. And finally because the whole Church was not involved in the decision to add it into the Creed, making it null and void, until the Church as a whole agrees.

 

[Oblio]

I'm not here to start a debate. I ask this question honestly. If the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son also, what do you make of:

Jn 20:22 He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

Simply put, the answer to your question is that that verse speaks to Christ giving them the Holy Spirit (temporally). It does not speak to the procession of the third Person of the Holy Trinity. There is only one place that the Holy Spirit proceeds from.

 

[InnerPhyre]

Doesn't the OC believe that Jesus and the Father are One?

 

[OrthodoxTexan]

How about we leave our debates for another day. We should be preparing ourselves for the Resurrection, not getting riled up in discourse over the 'filoque'.

 

[MariaRegina]

I'm not here to start a debate. I ask this question honestly. If the Holy Spirit does not proceed from the Son also, what do you make of:

Jn 20:22 He breathed on them and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."

You are confusing the difference between:

(1) the Eternal Procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father

(2) the Pentecostal experience when Jesus sent the Holy Spirit upon the Apostles and us.

 

[MariaRegina]

I think we'll all be praying to the same Holy Spirit when it comes to mandatory implantation of chips in our foreheads or hands.

Then debates won't be so important as preparation for a martyr's death.

 

[MariaRegina]

Doesn't the OC believe that Jesus and the Father are One?

The three Holy Persons of the Blessed Trinity are distinct and separate persons yet they are one God.

"Philip, he who sees Me sees the Father ..."

We are created in the image and likeness of God.

So, people who see us should see Christ .... but do they? Sadly the Icon of Christ in us is most of the time defiled by sin. There should be many more saints than there actually are. We are so lukewarm.

Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us and save us.