2 Thes 1:9 says that they pay the penalty of eternal destruction. This is not eternal life in hell getting the ultimate sunburn.
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
2 Thes 1:9 says that they pay the penalty of eternal destruction. This is not eternal life in hell getting the ultimate sunburn.Do you mean what the bible says in 2 Thes 1:9?
theFijian said:Do you mean what the bible says in 2 Thes 1:9?
I don't see how that is possible when the Bible clearly refers to judgment as eternal, in hell, which is also referred to as "eternal destruction." Jesus Himself states that condemnation is eternal.The problem with that analysis is that we are not talking about God's thoughts vs. my thoughts. We are talking about your interpretation of what God said (your thoughts) vs. my interpretation of what God said (my thoughts). And, after having thoroughly studied the matter in Scripture, I am convinced that mine is more consistent with the entirety of biblical teaching on the matter.
... just isn't accurate.The hell of eternal conscious torment for unsaved man appears nowhere in Scripture
Thanks, I agree.
Thanks. That also supports what I have been saying. I have already addressed "everlasting destruction" in this thread. It doesn't mean what you think it means.
None of those verses says "eternal torment." So you have your opinion, but the bible does not support it. You even quoted one (Matt 10:28) that says the body and soul can be destroyed, which is what we have been saying. This verse also refutes this:Neither of you know what you're talking about.
Mt 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Mt 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt 5:30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mt 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Mt 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mt 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mt 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mr 9:43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mr 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mr 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Lu 10:15 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted to heaven, shalt be thrust down to hell.
Lu 12:5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.
Lu 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Ac 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Ac 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Jas 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Re 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Re 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
Re 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
So you have your opinions, but God's Word says otherwise. Hell was created by God to punish the devils who rebelled against him and sinners who rejected Jesus Christ.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Jude 1:15 ¶ To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
You don't believe in God's judgment but the Word of the Lord clearly teaches it in dozens of places. May God have mercy on you.
IisJustMe said:For the condemned, the soul lives on.
theFijian said:Rather it doesn't mean what you think it means. Eternal life is being in the presence of the eternal God for evermore, this is Life which is truly life (1 Tim 6:19). The punishment of death which is laid out in scripture is described as being eternal in many many places. So by implication, your assertion that their punishment must be finite is wrong.
None of those verses says "eternal torment." So you have your opinion, but the bible does not support it. You even quoted one (Matt 10:28) that says the body and soul can be destroyed, which is what we have been saying. This verse also refutes this:
Rather it doesn't mean what you think it means. Eternal life is being in the presence of the eternal God for evermore, this is Life which is truly life (1 Tim 6:19). The punishment of death which is laid out in scripture is described as being eternal in many many places. So by implication, your assertion that their punishment must be finite is wrong.
Plethora of verses teaching eternal torment? Find one outside outside of the apocalyptic writing of the book of revelation. Even revelation says that the lake of fire is the second death.9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Rev. 14:9-11
THAT is eternal torment. It even uses the very word.
Nothing refutes the plethora of verses teaching that hell is a real place of torment. Jesus warned about it continually.
Among my acquantances and in counseling people (29 yrs experience) I have personally talked to people who descended to hell and come back to tell about it. What they said matches perfectly with the scriptures.
Jesus Christ and His disciples told the truth about that awful place of torment for Christ rejecting sinners. I believe them and not you and your unbelieving comrades Timothew.
Plethora of verses teaching eternal torment? Find one outside outside of the apocalyptic writing of the book of revelation. Even revelation says that the lake of fire is the second death.
But this is upsetting you, so I won't say anything more.
And you take those verses literal? Why?
Eternal life: remaining alive forever. Believers will be physically resurrected and live in the presence of the Lord forever.
Eternal death (or eternal destruction): being dead forever with no hope of resurrection.
This is the interpretation that requires us to engage in no mental gymnastics and redefining words and is consistent with the whole of Scripture. As Tim said, inevitably to justify your doctrine of hell, you must change the commonly accepted definitions of words. That should clue you into the fact that it is probably wrong.
Adding 'eternal' to the word 'death' means it's not an ordinary kind of death being described. A bit like when God told Adam and Eve that in the day they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would die. Except they didn't die that day.
Adding 'eternal' to the word 'death' means it's not an ordinary kind of death being described. A bit like when God told Adam and Eve that in the day they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they would die. Except they didn't die that day.
Correction: they began to die that day.
"... for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
I agree with you on the Word relating to what is said about hell. To me, it is as clear as day that there is a literal hell filled with eternal suffering.
How anyone could look at those verses you provided and not come to the same conclusion is a mystery.
I agree with you on the Word relating to what is said about hell. To me, it is as clear as day that there is a literal hell filled with eternal suffering.
How anyone could look at those verses you provided and not come to the same conclusion is a mystery.
How anyone could objectively look at those passages and assume that they are talking about a hell of eternal torment is a mystery to me.
I am still waiting for someone to cite one passage that refers to the idea that those who die apart from Christ will face eternal torment in Hell. I can point to several that say that the penalty for sin is death and that those who die apart from Christ die in their sin. I can point to several that talk about sin leading to destruction. I can even point to at least one that references the body and soul being destroyed. None that reference eternal torment for nonbelievers.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?