Who of us can Judge

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 24, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
Yes, you keep influencing him that he cannot overcome it...don't offer him HOPE! That makes him cry.

In Christ we are more than conquerors. We are major overcomers of all enemies. A homosexual can most certainly overcome his debasing attraction. It's a given. Put purity in and get purity out! The Holy Spirit renovates lives! Jesus Christ is our HOPE and our Healer and Restorer! AMEN!!

Pretty words. But it isn't that simple.

I am not the one who tells him he can't overcome it. I'm the one telling him to by what he is. The ones who make him cry are the ones telling him to "be this", no matter what you're telling him to be. You can't simply tell a person they HAVE to be something. And you can't make it sound so simple and easy. That is what causes depression in homosexuals. They feel like failures when they aren't changing at the speed that they're expected or if they "change" but still fight with the attraction because they're so convinced it's wrong.

As Zaac has said, nothing is wrong with the attraction.

Also, okay. I hope you don't feel ANY attraction to your husband than FloatingAxe, because it's sinful. Frankly though, I'd rather be attracted to my boyfriend and be considered sinful by you, then not feel anything so you can think I'm such an innocent little girl.

Uber, that was uncalled for.

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

UberLutheran said:
Where is the love, IAmRedeemed?

I thought your folks were supposed to be the practitioners of "compassionate conservatism"!

Anyway, thank you for making my point better than I ever possibly could.

Love is God and God is love. So in order to have true love you must be within God's will not perversions (homosexuality).

Zaac · Jul 24, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
Attraction to the same sex is lustful,

Biblically, where is the support for this?

and is a sin. Period.

Click to expand...

And this?

I have no problem with calling sin what it is. But we need to be careful that we don't identify as sin something that God has not called sin.

The fact that it is unnatural needs some very real introspection.

Click to expand...

In God's Word , He says In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 11:27

Does this not point to an abandoning of natural relations in favor of committing indecent acts with other men?

I'm still not seeing anything that speaks to the actual attraction as sinful.

Does God's Word refer to attraction absent lust anywhere as sinful?

UberLutheran · Jul 24, 2007

NewGuy101 said:
Love is God and God is love. So in order to have true love you must be within God's will not perversions (homosexuality).

What about pride? Or arrogance? Are pride and arrogance within God's will?

Of course, we all know that homosexuality is a worse sin than either spiritual pride or arrogance...

UberLutheran · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
Uber, that was uncalled for.

Think I haven't been on the receiving end of more than a few of those in my 53 years?

Think again...

IamRedeemed · Jul 24, 2007

Hey Uber lol

Erm....I don't think I made the point you actually had hoped for or believe I did. The love is in the truth.

Without repentance and a willing heart to turn away from our sins, none of us can expect mercy or forgiveness.

Stiff-necked rebellion, false teaching, and idol worship didn't work in the favor of any of our ancestors, and it surely won't work for us either.
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] These people give me honour with their lips, but their heart is far from me" [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Matthew 15:7-8[/FONT]

Jesus has some alternate words, that many will hear on that day, who in word but not in deed call Him, Lord, Lord.

Luke 6:46-49
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever comes to me, and hears my sayings, and does them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

He is like a man which built an house, and dug deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

UberLutheran said:
Where is the love, IAmRedeemed?

I thought your folks were supposed to be the practitioners of "compassionate conservatism"!

Anyway, thank you for making my point better than I ever possibly could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRedeemed

I don't recall anyone in here asking for any mercy.
Please point out anyone that has said, "help I know homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God,
I see it with my own two eyes in His word, and I am convicted in my spirit, but I can't help
myself and I need help and prayer!"

Is there any like that in here that I have overlooked?

I haven't seen any. All I see are people preaching false doctrine.
I see people calling the truth a lie and a lie the truth.
I hear them call a blessing what God has said is accursed. I see people here teaching others to adopt apostate thoughts and beliefs and I see people rather than conform to the will and ways of God, create a God in the image they want Him to be.

When I see a call for mercy, I will respond with mercy and compassion. But I will respond with righteous indignation when I see the Word of God profaned, and the cross of Christ made of no effect, when I see testimonies of God's goodness being met with hatred and contempt. When I see a stiff-necked rebellious people publically preaching and teaching the ways of destruction deceiving many, you can rest assured on that!

[/FONT]

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 24, 2007

UberLutheran said:
Think I haven't been on the receiving end of more than a few of those in my 53 years?

Think again...

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

IamRedeemed · Jul 24, 2007

Confidence in Christ and in His Word, being strong in the power of His might against principalities and powers, spiritual wickedness in high places and refuting false doctrine and laying the Word of God as an axe at its root is not the same as pride and arrogance.

Without Him, we can do nothing. He is the vine, we are the branches. We are made clean by His Word.
He who abides not in the vine will dry up and be cut off. John 15:1-4

I was lost, but now I'm found, t'was blind but now I see.

Coincidently you do come across very prideful and arrogant....since you brought it up......
and sometimes you are downright belligerent.

UberLutheran said:
What about pride? Or arrogance? Are pride and arrogance within God's will?

Of course, we all know that homosexuality is a worse sin than either spiritual pride or arrogance...

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

UberLutheran said:
What about pride? Or arrogance? Are pride and arrogance within God's will?

Of course, we all know that homosexuality is a worse sin than either spiritual pride or arrogance...

What about murder, what about lust? What the heck is your point?

ReformedChapin · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

"An eye for an eye was for the Jews."

IamRedeemed · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

Hahahaha!

That's a Good one TFD

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 24, 2007

IamRedeemed said:
Hahahaha!

That's a Good one TFD

Thank you. That's Ghandi I believe.

IamRedeemed · Jul 24, 2007

But Jesus doesn't want any of us to be what we are.
He died so we could be changed, so he could save us FROM who we are, and where being who we are leads.
He loves us too much to leave us in our darkened sinful state. In this case the topic being homosexuality.

Sin is innate. Homosexuality specifically is not. It is not like a hair or skin color. We are all born pre-disposed to sin. Different sins grip different people and some become strongholds.

Again Sin is innate, and can be changed. God has called Homosexuality SIN.

Homosexuality is not a part of anyone that is beyond the Potter's reach.
He can and will make free, he who wants to be made free from whatever
sin that has them bound.

Praise the Lord!

TheFathersDaughter said:
Pretty words. But it isn't that simple.

I am not the one who tells him he can't overcome it. I'm the one telling him to by what he is. The ones who make him cry are the ones telling him to "be this", no matter what you're telling him to be. You can't simply tell a person they HAVE to be something. And you can't make it sound so simple and easy. That is what causes depression in homosexuals. They feel like failures when they aren't changing at the speed that they're expected or if they "change" but still fight with the attraction because they're so convinced it's wrong.

As Zaac has said, nothing is wrong with the attraction.

Also, okay. I hope you don't feel ANY attraction to your husband than FloatingAxe, because it's sinful. Frankly though, I'd rather be attracted to my boyfriend and be considered sinful by you, then not feel anything so you can think I'm such an innocent little girl.

Uber, that was uncalled for.

IamRedeemed · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
Thank you. That's Ghandi I believe.

It was a wise and funny saying.

Floatingaxe · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
Pretty words. But it isn't that simple.

I am not the one who tells him he can't overcome it. I'm the one telling him to by what he is. The ones who make him cry are the ones telling him to "be this", no matter what you're telling him to be. You can't simply tell a person they HAVE to be something. And you can't make it sound so simple and easy. That is what causes depression in homosexuals. They feel like failures when they aren't changing at the speed that they're expected or if they "change" but still fight with the attraction because they're so convinced it's wrong.

As Zaac has said, nothing is wrong with the attraction.

Also, okay. I hope you don't feel ANY attraction to your husband than FloatingAxe, because it's sinful. Frankly though, I'd rather be attracted to my boyfriend and be considered sinful by you, then not feel anything so you can think I'm such an innocent little girl.

Uber, that was uncalled for.

When Jesus Christ came so that we can overcome, and you are not proclaiming that to these poor people, then you are effectively witholding hope, cutting Jesus off at the knees.

We, as believers need to teach these people that they have a hope in christ, that they can be all that God wants them to be!

He doesn't want us to be living carnal lives of failure and difficulty and spiritual lack! He calls us to a victorious life of propserity in Him!

You need not mention anything personal here, TFD, because my marriage has nothing to do with this subject. (I have been happily married for 31 years.)

Oh, and:

Pretty words. But it isn't that simple.

Yes, it is that simple. Jesus died to make it simple. They aren't pretty words. They are true words and when applied, they change lives.

TheFathersDaughter · Jul 24, 2007

Floatingaxe said:
When Jesus Christ came so that we can overcome, and you are not proclaiming that to these poor people, then you are effectively witholding hope, cutting Jesus off at the knees.

We, as believers need to teach these people that they have a hope in christ, that they can be all that God wants them to be!

He doesn't want us to be living carnal lives of failure and difficulty and spiritual lack! He calls us to a victorious life of propserity in Him!

You need not mention anything personal here, TFD, because my marriage has nothing to do with this subject. (I have been happily married for 31 years.)

To teach that they can, and to pressure and push it on them and treat them as failures if they can't, are two separate things.

Sounds to me, you promote the latter. This thread is about judging. The second you judge a homosexual, you are putting him at risk of depression. You can say, he can change, but you can not FORCE him to change. Only God has that sort of power. If a man tries to force another man to change, he is trying to become God.

In the end, you can not interfere with a homosexual and you can't tell them to stop being a homosexual. You can only tell them find God.

MercyBurst · Jul 24, 2007

Carey said:
Matthew 7

Judging Others

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. 6"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces. Ask, Seek, Knock

7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened. 9"Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Matthew 5 : 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5 : 6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.

Does that mean Christians can't serve on a jury where they judge people according to the law, to determine their guilt or innocence? I don't think so.

Those verses are so often quoted, but so rarely understood.

When you tell someone they are guilty of a crime, and you know they are guilty, then this is not judging them.

When someone breaks the law, a judge decides the punishment and delivers it. As citizens we do not have the legal authority to do this.

Likewise God is the ultimate authority to punish for sin. If we decide to do this, then we are found judges. Our judgment better be right or we are guilty as well. Judge not that ye be not judged means what it says. If you judge then you will be judged with the same standard. You better be prayed up good.

Zaac · Jul 24, 2007

You need not mention anything personal here, TFD, because my marriage has nothing to do with this subject. (I have been happily married for 31 years.)

In the midst of a world rampant with divorce and Christians who just give up, this is a blessing!!! To God be the glory!!!

I get so excited to hear our pastor announce a 50th+ or 60th+ wedding anniversary.

Floatingaxe · Jul 24, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
To teach that they can, and to pressure and push it on them and treat them as failures if they can't, are two separate things.

Sounds to me, you promote the latter. This thread is about judging. The second you judge a homosexual, you are putting him at risk of depression. You can say, he can change, but you can not FORCE him to change. Only God has that sort of power. If a man tries to force another man to change, he is trying to become God.

In the end, you can not interfere with a homosexual and you can't tell them to stop being a homosexual. You can only tell them find God.

Absolutely NOT! As a Christian, I offer the hope of salvation, and the hope of restoration in Christ. There is NO ONE who cannot be restored through the power of the Holy Spirit. Do not limit God. It is His will that we all be made whole.

By your opposition to this truth, you are buying the Satanic lie that a person is forever trapped into homosexuality and that is just not true.

Zaac · Jul 24, 2007

Does that mean Christians can't serve on a jury where they judge people according to the law, to determine their guilt or innocence? I don't think so.

Those verses are so often quoted, but so rarely understood.

AMEN!!!!

Who of us can Judge

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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Blessed are the pure in Heart, they shall see God.

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