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Who is without sin may cast the first stone...

k4c

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From the first day of the fall of mankind we have continued on a downward spiral. We all have fallen from our original image and glory, of which we were created. The Ten Commandments are a reflection of that image. That image that it reflects is holy and righteous and we’re not. So what does the Ten Commandments do to one who is unholy? It kills them…

The Ten Commandments were meant to bring life, but because of sin, it brought death.

Romans 7:8-13 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Once we understand and accept the fact that we are sinners and we can’t escape from this condition we are able to die to ourselves. Though the law was meant to bring life, it brings death because of sin.

No one can keep the law of God the way God requires it to be kept and God know this but the problem is, we don’t.

Jesus magnified the law when He raised the bar to it’s true meaning in that the law is spiritual.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.

In other words, you may be keeping the law outwardly but God looks at the heart.

Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not commit adultery.' "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Now tell me, who is without sin?

Even today whether SDA, Catholic, Jehovah Witness or pagan, who is without sin?

Romans 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Once we are able to come to this understanding and God is able to bring death to the old man. Then and only then can we truly come alive and see the law in it's true light.

This death releases us from the law’s ministry of death and condemnation to serve in newness of life. The grace of God is seen in the fact that He is not counting our sin against us. Do we now sin because God is not counting our sin against us?

Romans 6:1-16 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?


Shall we continue to sin now that we are no longer under the law but under grace? No way. In other words, we have been released from that aspect of the law that reveals our hopeless condition so that we may keep the law without fear of guilt and condemnation for past sins done in the old man. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

God does all this because He loves us. He knows that in our present condition we are without hope in the world. He knows we are but dust. We are dead in our trespasses and sins we just don’t know it. The law points this out but it doesn’t stop there. The law also points us to Christ because it reveals our hopeless need.

What we see in Christ is righteousness of which the law requires. When we come to realize our need for righteousness, Christ is able to give it to us freely. Until then He can not.

The righteousness of Christ brings an end to the law as a means to be made right before God, which is something we could never do ourselves.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

The end of the law for righteousness, not the end of the law as an expression of love.

We will always have sin dwelling in us until that great and glorious day. There is nothing we can do about that. But thanks be to Christ.

Romans 7:15-25 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

We will always struggle with sin, this is a good thing because sin is part of our nature so where there is no struggle, there is no Spirit of God working.

In my mind I love the law of God and try to keep it because of this love but in my flesh I struggle to do this and at times I fall. But thanks be to Jesus who is my Advocate and my Savior I can give it to God and He is faithful to forgive and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

So you see, the law has not been done away with but our relationship to the law has changed. It went from a ministry of death and condemnation, regarding the old man, to becoming a delight to the inward man. So blessed is the man who God does not count his sins against him.

Psalms 32:1 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered.

So where is our confidence? Where is our hope? Is it in the keeping of the law?

Romans 8:29-39 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? ho shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written: "For Your sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.'' Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Where is our hope and where is our life? Where is our love?

1 John 5:1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Love is the only thing that makes an unpleasant thing not a burden. We are a sinful people so the law of God will be unpleasant.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

But not for those who have been born of God, through Jesus the Christ, and who love God. This is the new covenant and the new living way. God forgives our sin and writes His law in our heart.
 
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Byfaithalone1

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We all have fallen from our original image and glory, of which we were created. The Ten Commandments are a reflection of that image.
The law, the ten commandments are merely a shadow (see Hebrews 10). Jesus Christ is the reality.


That image that it reflects is holy and righteous and we’re not. So what does the Ten Commandments do to one who is unholy? It kills them…
Indeed. That is why they are called the ministry of death. Why should we advocate for shadows, for a ministry of death, when we can advocate for the reality--Jesus Christ!


The Ten Commandments were meant to bring life, but because of sin, it brought death.
That is why the chapter you cited states the following:
"Do you not know, brothers—for I am speaking to men who know the law—that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code."
Once we understand and accept the fact that we are sinners and we can’t escape from this condition we are able to die to ourselves.
When we come to Jesus Christ, we also die to the law. The chapter cited confirms it.


Though the law was meant to bring life, it brings death because of sin.
So, instead of advocating for shadows, lets advocate for the reality!


No one can keep the law of God the way God requires it to be kept and God know this but the problem is, we don’t.
It is because God knows that His people could not keep the law that He created a new covenant with them. That covenant is based upon the Spirit, not law (see 2 Corinthians 3).


Jesus magnified the law when He raised the bar to it’s true meaning in that the law is spiritual.
Jesus taught what the Spirit could do that the law could never do. Jesus taught that it's what in the heart that matters most to Him, and not the outward behaviors.

In other words, you may be keeping the law outwardly but God looks at the heart.
I submit that no one truly keeps the law (and it seems that we may agree). In fact, the whole world is a prisoner of sin. It is for this reason that we need a Savior.


Now tell me, who is without sin?
Not even one.


Once we are able to come to this understanding and God is able to bring death to the old man. Then and only then can we truly come alive and see the law in it's true light.
Your conclusion does not fit with the texts cited herein.


This death releases us from the law’s ministry of death
Romans 7 clearly indicates that we are released not only from death, but also from the law. This is also confirmed in Galatians 3 (i.e. "the schoolmaster"), Galatians 4 (i.e. "the slave woman") and 2 Corinthians 3.


Shall we continue to sin now that we are no longer under the law but under grace?
Does God desire us to structure our lives around the pursuit of sin? Absolutely not. And yet do we sin? Indeed we do. Why does God not eradicate sin TODAY? You'll have to ask Him that question. I am fully persuaded that He has a plan.


In other words, we have been released from that aspect of the law that reveals our hopeless condition so that we may keep the law without fear of guilt and condemnation for past sins done in the old man.
No, indeed! We have also been released from the law. You seem to have missed what the very Scriptures you cite are teaching!


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Certainly, we will. Even so, this isn't God's plan.


God does all this because He loves us. He knows that in our present condition we are without hope in the world. He knows we are but dust. We are dead in our trespasses and sins we just don’t know it. The law points this out but it doesn’t stop there. The law also points us to Christ because it reveals our hopeless need.
The law is merely a shadow. Jesus is the reality. Once we have the reality, the shadows take on their appropriate perspective.


What we see in Christ is righteousness of which the law requires. When we come to realize our need for righteousness, Christ is able to give it to us freely. Until then He can not
.
So Jesus is unable to reach a person until that person realizes His need for God? Tell me, who is the author and the finisher of your faith? How is it that you were even able to sense your need for God.

Consider the chapter you previously cited:
"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words."
The righteousness of Christ brings an end to the law as a means to be made right before God, which is something we could never do ourselves.
We have been released from the law. To continue to advocate for the law, you enter into spiritual adultery. Rather, you must die to that which once bound you so that you may serve another.


Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Amen! Christ is the end of the law! Consider these translations:
"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes."

"Christ ended the law so that everyone who believes in him may be right with God."

"But Christ makes the Law no longer necessary for those who become acceptable to God by faith."

"For Christ is the end of the Law as the means of righteousness for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him."
We will always have sin dwelling in us until that great and glorious day. There is nothing we can do about that. But thanks be to Christ.
It's interesting to note that the SDA denomination's continuing and authoritative source of truth teaches that only perfection will meet with the mind of God, and that we will bring with us to Heaven the character that we form today.


So you see, the law has not been done away with but our relationship to the law has changed.
The existence of sin is not evidence of the law. Sin existed before there was a law. The Spirit convicts us with respect to sin and righteousness and judgment.


BFA
 
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onebit

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Does God desire us to structure our lives around the pursuit of sin? Absolutely not. And yet do we sin? Indeed we do. Why does God not eradicate sin TODAY? You'll have to ask Him that question. I am fully persuaded that He has a plan.

This is a great discussion... Possibly too many points to address, but that is why God is the teacher. You are right that God has a plan. The plan has been finished! Sin has been eradicated. Consider this in light of scripture...

If you count your self to have been literally crucified with Christ, then the old man is dead. Better than that you have been raised up and seated together with Christ. The law of God written in your hearts. This new creature does not sin. Right?

If you are now one with Christ and he is now your only life, then Christ indeed does not sin.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who is that seed? Christ! Paul fully realized this when he wrote this statement:

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

He is saying this from the perspective that he has already been delivered from this body of death and that the new man that he is, is not the author of sin but rather the left over vices and habits of the old man that die daily as we are renewed into the inner man.

So praise God! We have been perfected!

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. This new man that we are is truly of and from Christ within and we find that we have been totally delivered from sin.

Even our bodies are considered vessels of honor! Read Romans 9! Do we still experience the flesh? Yeah but not for long.

Christ came and destroyed the works of the devil. When you were translated into the Kingdom you entered in through the veil of Christ's flesh and it was there that the powers of darkness were destroyed in his death and buried. Hence old things have passed away and all things are new.

I delight too in the law of God after the inward man. Because this dispensation of the law is through the Spirit of the Law giver, Christ. He is the fulfillment of the law and His righteousness is mine. I have a righteous Spirit. I am righteous apart from my works. When I see my flesh dying outwardly I rejoice to know that I am not that man. I have not a sin nature but a God nature.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Notice that the law is fulfilled in us and that we are no longer flesh but considered Spirit. Whatsoever is flesh is flesh. What is of the Spirit is spirit. I would like to ad one thing to consider in prayer. What did Paul mean that sin was condemned in the flesh by Christ in the above scripture? Is he saying that it has been sentenced to an end? Eradicated?

with love, Billy
 
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Byfaithalone1

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Billy,

Although I agree with a number of your points, I think you are suggesting that, not only are justified persons credited with righteousness, but they also ARE righteous and DO NOT SIN. Is that accurate?

If I've correctly understand your position, what do we do with the texts in Scripture (including the very chapter you cited) that confirm that Paul was sold as a slave to sin, that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, that any man who sins is a slave to sin, that human righteousness is as filthy rags, that there is no one righteous--not even one and that this corruptible does not put on incorruption until the trump of God?

If I've misunderstood your position, can you clarify further?

Although it is true that sinless persons could merit their own salvation (if there was such a thing as a truly sinless person), I am a sinner and am therefore a slave to sin. And yet I have a Savior who will free me from this body of sin and death. He has sent the Holy Spirit as a seal, guaranteeing what is still yet to come. I have assurance not because of any manifestation of goodness in me (as if there was more than One who is good). I have assurance because of His goodness to me. The renewal of all things is still yet to come.

I look forward to further clarification on your post.

BFA
 
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Adventtruth

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Shall we continue to sin now that we are no longer under the law but under grace? No way. In other words, we have been released from that aspect of the law that reveals our hopeless condition so that we may keep the law without fear of guilt and condemnation for past sins done in the old man. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

It sounds good but its flawed. You teach God released us from it that we can go back to it and perform it.

According to Romans 7:4 we are released from it through the body of Christ that we can belong to Him that we can bear fruit unto God. Fruit bearing to God is by the Spirit of God not by following after law to perform it.





(Rom 7:4) Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.

Performing law brings fruit unto death.

(Rom 6:20) For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
(Rom 6:21) But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.


You being at times, though not perfectly, loving and kind and at times a tender hearted believer to others fulfills the law...that is, you meet its requirments. But let us not think this is the basis of our salvation or that we merit anything from God in this...And this is different from following after law to perform it which no one has ever done.

(Rom 13:8) Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
(Rom 13:9) For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."
(Rom 13:10) Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


It is also a bible fact that your trusting Christ by faith alone that God does not imput sin to you. Your legal position before God has changed from being in Adam to being in Chirst, thus the justified are called such because they now are found inocent by grace of God through trust by faith alone, that Christ has legally suffed and died for them.

(Rom 4:5) But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(Rom 4:6) Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
(Rom 4:7)Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
(Rom 4:8) Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


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Adventtruth

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This is a great discussion... Possibly too many points to address, but that is why God is the teacher. You are right that God has a plan. The plan has been finished! Sin has been eradicated. Consider this in light of scripture...

If you count your self to have been literally crucified with Christ, then the old man is dead. Better than that you have been raised up and seated together with Christ. The law of God written in your hearts. This new creature does not sin. Right?

If you are now one with Christ and he is now your only life, then Christ indeed does not sin.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Who is that seed? Christ! Paul fully realized this when he wrote this statement:

Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

He is saying this from the perspective that he has already been delivered from this body of death and that the new man that he is, is not the author of sin but rather the left over vices and habits of the old man that die daily as we are renewed into the inner man.

So praise God! We have been perfected!

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. This new man that we are is truly of and from Christ within and we find that we have been totally delivered from sin.

Even our bodies are considered vessels of honor! Read Romans 9! Do we still experience the flesh? Yeah but not for long.

Christ came and destroyed the works of the devil. When you were translated into the Kingdom you entered in through the veil of Christ's flesh and it was there that the powers of darkness were destroyed in his death and buried. Hence old things have passed away and all things are new.

I delight too in the law of God after the inward man. Because this dispensation of the law is through the Spirit of the Law giver, Christ. He is the fulfillment of the law and His righteousness is mine. I have a righteous Spirit. I am righteous apart from my works. When I see my flesh dying outwardly I rejoice to know that I am not that man. I have not a sin nature but a God nature.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Notice that the law is fulfilled in us and that we are no longer flesh but considered Spirit. Whatsoever is flesh is flesh. What is of the Spirit is spirit. I would like to ad one thing to consider in prayer. What did Paul mean that sin was condemned in the flesh by Christ in the above scripture? Is he saying that it has been sentenced to an end? Eradicated?

with love, Billy

Billy your posting sounds as if you are a 5 pointer. Do I have the correct perspective? If so, I understand your position, but respectfully disagree. While God does not imput sin to the justified, the justified are still in the flesh. While we are to know no man after the flesh, we still sin in it, thus we are only counted righteous through the grace of God based on the life and blood of Christ. The believer has been moved from the position of being in Adam to being in Christ in the Spirit. While we live and move and breath and have our being in Chirst we still live and move and breath in a very much sinful world and do fall short in and of ourselves. Our righteounsness is outside of us in heaven at the right hand of God thus we are counted sinless in Him alone, and not of ourselves. Just as dogs bark, the justified ask for forgivness of sins.

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