Who is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18?

crystalpc · Jun 22, 2004

peaceful soul said:
Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which makes Him the essence of God; so your analogy is incorrect. If Jesus was just a mere man, I would not be a Christian. I hope you see the light.

I will never follow a man. I will listen, but if what he says does not align with Bible, adios. All men are corrupted in some way or another. I would not follow their example for that reason. If you wish to follow, you can know 100% that you will be lead astray from your doctrine at some point. I see it quite a bit in Christianity; so I know it exists in Islam too.

Man is corrupt by nature. The Qu'ran does not hold this view; so I can see why Mohammad's corrupted nature can be emulated without much of a problem. In Islam, sin only needs to be forgiven. It is treated as a fault. There is no true punishment for it; so all you need to do is ask for forgiveness. Allah forgives you and you move on. You can do the same thing over and over and Allah will forgive you. This shows that there is no true accountability in Islam. Furthermore, this mindset leads to further corruption of a person's spirit.

I know you did not ask for the 3rd paragraph; I threw that in for free.

Peacefulsoul. I like the statement of your third paragraph. I have to ask this question though, if allah forgives, then why is salvation still dependant on works is his forgiveness conditional?

We as christians know that when God the Father forgives it is never brought back up again. He throws them as far as the east is from the west, never to remember them again.

peaceful soul · Jun 23, 2004

originally posted by crystalpc

Peacefulsoul. I like the statement of your third paragraph. I have to ask this question though, if allah forgives, then why is salvation still dependant on works is his forgiveness conditional?

Allah has no method of cleansing man of sins. Allah views man as basically good in nature; so that is why sin is not normally a big issue. IMO, since Islam does not have an accountability for sins as Christianity does, it has to entice man to act godly by doing things. Since Allah can not impute His own righteousness, He has to find another means to motivate man to righteousness. These manmade works replace what the Holy Spirit does through Christians relentlessly and naturally.

There are better theological arguments that I could give you if you are interested.

We as christians know that when God the Father forgives it is never brought back up again. He throws them as far as the east is from the west, never to remember them again.

Are you referencing from one of the Psalms? If you are, I think it is that He looks at them as if they are behind us as the east is from the west. In other words, God sees us and not our transgressions, because our transgressions are behind us. As you know, we can not tell where the east begins and the west ends or vice versa. Thank God for that!! I think that I will second that one myself.

JCBeliever · Jun 23, 2004

Peace KniteofIslam,

I'll try to clear my point to u more

1) U asked to give evidence that Mohammad is More Like Moses

2) I gave u many similarities between Moses and Mohammad

3) U said that some PROPHETS or JUDGES or MERE PEOPLE (OTHER THAN JESUS) have the same similarities that Mohammad has with Moses...

4) MY POINT:
I say that MOHAMMAD IS MORE LIKE MOSES THAN ANYBODY ELSE U MENTIONED...WHY???....BECAUSE NO SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BY HIMSELF MORE THAN THE 12 POINTS I GAVE BETWEEN MOSES AND MOHAMMAD... besides he is a Prophet
Yes...some of them might has same 1 or 2 similarities with Moses...But Not All, NOT As Much As Mohammad has with Moses...NOT JOSHUA...NOT DAVID...NOT ANYBODY ELSE...(STILL OTHER THAN JESUS I MEAN)
HOPE U SEE MY POINT ..

5) WHAT U HAVE TO PROVE NOW: (U don't have to repeat urself or anything)
If you think someone (OTHER THAN JESUS) deserves to be More like Moses than Mohammad ...let it be a Judge, Fisherman, Prophet or a Carpenter....etc....please prove that he has - besides he is a Prophet - 12 similarities or more to be more than Mohammad's similarities
That's ur turn and I'd like to see u make that the next post..
OTHERWISE..I CAN DECLARE THAT NO SINGLE PERSON DESERVES TO BE MORE LIKE MOSES THAN MOHAMMAD..(Still we didn't come to Jesus yet)

You may proceed.

Sorry we are still at the first portion of the prophecy "Like Unto Thee"....we have to finish this point first...or r u surrendering it to me!?
Still Waiting for ur next post which must be the person - other than Jesus - u r saying he is more like Moses than Mohammad with 12 or more similarities with Moses

You can't discuss more than one thing at once?

IronEagle · Jul 1, 2004

Bushmaster said:
Good way of thinking, so when something against the info you provide, and is refuted, do you dismiss the source immediately, or you keep on researching more sources until you are sure it is really to be dismissed?

That depends on lot of factors; it doesn't really have a clear cut answer.

1. If someone gives a logical and convincing reply thats usually enough for me. Usually, I post questions to increasing my knowledge and understanding, and I see informative discussions as a good way to accomplish this. I think it is better to first look into different opinions than develop premature judgment. Even if it is not convincing to me; nonetheless, it does improve my understanding of a different belief (not just religious) than my own.
2. Number of people participating in the discussion; the more, the better. Large number of participants doesn't always guarantee a quality discussion, but normally it means more information from different angles; it depends on the degree of diversity of the discussing group. Although, I'll check the credibility of the sources and the information.
3. The extent it affects me:
a. If it affects me to a high degree than I'll do exhaustive research, before I establish my opinion.
b. If it doesn't, I'm not really bothered. For example, I don't smoke and I don't like smoking, it doesn't really matter if someone says smoking is a good thing. Whether I believe smoking is a good thing or a bad thing, it doesn't really affect me.

crystalpc said:
I will be very interested in seeing this material. Thank you Bush and Iron Eagle

I've moved to a new job, I can't chat more often these days. I'll summarize early christian art, but if you are interested you can checkout books on early christian art in your local library. This is not a new information, you can find it in any good secular book on early christian art.

In short, early christian art is classified into period of persecution, period of recognition, large items, and small items that are easier to hide.

LittleLambofJesus · Dec 9, 2007

I'll try to clear my point to u more

1) U asked to give evidence that Mohammad is More Like Moses

2) I gave u many similarities between Moses and Mohammad

3) U said that some PROPHETS or JUDGES or MERE PEOPLE (OTHER THAN JESUS) have the same similarities that Mohammad has with Moses...

4) MY POINT:
I say that MOHAMMAD IS MORE LIKE MOSES THAN ANYBODY ELSE U MENTIONED...WHY???....BECAUSE NO SINGLE ONE OF THEM HAS BY HIMSELF MORE THAN THE 12 POINTS I GAVE BETWEEN MOSES AND MOHAMMAD... besides he is a Prophet
Yes...some of them might has same 1 or 2 similarities with Moses...But Not All, NOT As Much As Mohammad has with Moses...NOT JOSHUA...NOT DAVID...NOT ANYBODY ELSE...(STILL OTHER THAN JESUS I MEAN)
HOPE U SEE MY POINT ..

When did YHWH ever call Muhammad His "beloved" son?

Deut 18:18 A Prophet I will raise to them from within brothers of them as you.
And I give word of Me in mouth of Him and He speaks to them all which I shall instruct Him.
19 And he becomes the man who not he is listening to words of Me which He shall speak in name of Me, I shall require from with him.

Matthew 17:5 Still of-Him talking, behold!, a cloud, bright, overshadows them. And behold!, a voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is the Son of Me, the Beloved, in whom I delight, be ye hearing/akouete <191> (5720) Him!".

Acts 3:22 For Moses indeed toward the fathers saying: 'That a prophet to ye shall be raising up Lord, the God of ye out of the brothers of ye as Me. Of Him ye shall be hearing/akousesqe <191> (5695) according to all as much as ever He should be speaking toward ye.

Acts 7:37 This is the Moses, one saying to the sons of Israel: 'A prophet to ye shall be raising up Lord, the God of ye out of the brothers of ye as Me. Him ye shall be Hearing/akousesqe <191> (5695).

anatolian · Dec 10, 2007

He called Him His "beloved friend".

Renton405 · Dec 16, 2007

ALL4J3SUS said:
A muslim friend of mine sent me this article about which prophet Deuteronomy 18:18 was speaking of:

Here are some Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad (peace be upon him),
the Prophet

In Deuteronomy 18, Moses stated that God told him: "I will raise up for them a
prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth and
he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my
words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.
(Deuteronomy 18:18-19)

This states 3 things:

1) That he will be like Moses -->If you read the history of the Prophet Muhammed
(p.b.u.h) and Moses they are definitely similar. They were both prophets and
statesmen, both migrated following conspiracies to assassinate them; they had
normal births, family lives and their deaths were under normal circumstances,
unlike Jesus. In addition they were considered by their followers as Prophets
not sons of God.

2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites (i.e. the Ishmaelites).
After all Isaac and Ishmael were the two sons of Abraham (Genesis 21). Ishmael
became the grandfather of the Arab nation and Isaac became the grandfather of
the Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was not to come from among the Jews
themselves, but form among their brothers, the Ishmaelites. Also Isaiah 42:1-13
speaks of the servant of God. IN verse 11, the awaited messenger is connected
with the descendants of Kedar. Who is Kedar? According to Genesis 25:13, Kedar
was the second son of Ishmael, the ancestor of the Prophet Muhammed.

3) That God will put His words into the mouth of the this prophet and he will
declare what God commands him.

“If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I
myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19). This means that
whoever believes in the Bible must believe in the Prophet.

"Now this was John's testimony, when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and
Levites to ask him who he was. He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely,
"I am not the Christ." They asked him "Then who are you" Are you the Elijah?" He
said, "I am not". "Are you the Prophet?" He answered, no." (John 1:19-21)

When we look in the Bible with cross references, we will find in the marginal
notes where the word “Prophet” occurs in John 1:21 that these words refer to the
prophecy of Deuteronomy 18:15 and 18:18. Thus Jesus Christ is not the prophet
mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18.
____________________________________

Problem is many prophets came after Moses. So it could be talking about King David, Solomon, Daniel, Jeremiah, Elijah or Isaiah.. Since Muhammed is not in the bible and dosen't pass the tests as a prophet how can it be?? The bible clearly says that anyone who denys the Son of God is of Antichrist..

yaqovzadeek · Dec 16, 2007

peaceful soul said:
Another note: Bible indicates that Jesus was the head of all prophets. This means that all other prophets would have to lead up to Him. By no means does Mohammad fit into the prophet line. Why? He did everything in contrast to Christ. He is foreign and so is his message. He does not bring any good news, instead, he bring bad news. The bad news being that we must go back under law and once more become slaves to sin. Our morality has to be legislated. God's morality can no longer shine forth through Holy Spirit working in our lives. Man, what a mess!!!

Wait a minute when we say Jesus was a great prophet we get accused of Attacking Christianity. We say Jesus was a prophet christians say he is GOD. But when it comes to defending Deuteronomy 18:18 tht it is Jesus then Straight away Jesus is a prophet for the christians.
He is either a prophet or GOD he cannot be both prophet and GOD so make up your minds.Jesus cannot only be a prophet when it suits you, only when you need to put down prophet Mohamed but after that you will argue tooth and nail that he was he was GOD. This is generally speaking I am not refering to peaceful soul alone.
So please decide what he was GOD or a prophet.After you have finished contradicting yourselves let me kno0w then may be I can join in to this dialogue.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the just

Ramona · Dec 16, 2007

Whoa, thread necromancy.

ProphetMarecavallo · Dec 16, 2007

The Prophet mentioned is I, Marecavallo

peaceful soul · Dec 16, 2007

yaqovzadeek said:
Wait a minute when we say Jesus was a great prophet we get accused of Attacking Christianity. We say Jesus was a prophet christians say he is GOD. But when it comes to defending Deuteronomy 18:18 tht it is Jesus then Straight away Jesus is a prophet for the christians.
He is either a prophet or GOD he cannot be both prophet and GOD so make up your minds.Jesus cannot only be a prophet when it suits you, only when you need to put down prophet Mohamed but after that you will argue tooth and nail that he was he was GOD. This is generally speaking I am not refering to peaceful soul alone.
So please decide what he was GOD or a prophet.After you have finished contradicting yourselves let me kno0w then may be I can join in to this dialogue.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the just

By forcing only two choices upon Christians concerning Jesus' status, you are engaging in what is referred to as a false dichotomy/false dilemma ("either or" fallacy). Jesus is a prophet according to the Bible. He is also God according to the Bible.

Exactly what do you mean when you say that we put down Mohammad? Is is because we don't believe that he is a legitimate prophet by Biblical standards? Or do you mean that speaking anything unfavorable (even if it is fact) about him is a put down?

ChildishFears · Dec 16, 2007

ProphetMarecavallo said:
The Prophet mentioned is I, Marecavallo

ProphetMarecavallo · Dec 16, 2007

ChildishFears said:

Do not worship me my child, worship the One and Only: Ease Orsehe

yaqovzadeek · Dec 17, 2007

peaceful soul said:
By forcing only two choices upon Christians concerning Jesus' status, you are engaging in what is referred to as a false dichotomy/false dilemma ("either or" fallacy). Jesus is a prophet according to the Bible. He is also God according to the Bible.

Exactly what do you mean when you say that we put down Mohammad? Is is because we don't believe that he is a legitimate prophet by Biblical standards? Or do you mean that speaking anything unfavorable (even if it is fact) about him is a put down?

What other chioces are there I mean the Christians, claim Jesus is GOD we claim he is not so these are the two choices available. Now Jesus cannot be both Prophet and GOD, I do agree with you that the Biblwe says he is a prophet but I disagree that it says he is GOD.Christians claim he is GOD but there is no evidence in the Bible that he is.So if he is a prophet as i beleive he is then may be we can address this verse and see what we can deduce from it.But qwe have a problem if you say Jesus is GOD.We have a greater problem if you say he was a prophet and God at the same time cos one cannot be the Messenger boy and the Chairman of the company at the same time.Either one or the other.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the Just

Montalban · Dec 17, 2007

yaqovzadeek said:
What other chioces are there I mean the Christians, claim Jesus is GOD we claim he is not so these are the two choices available. Now Jesus cannot be both Prophet and GOD, I do agree with you that the Biblwe says he is a prophet but I disagree that it says he is GOD.Christians claim he is GOD but there is no evidence in the Bible that he is.So if he is a prophet as i beleive he is then may be we can address this verse and see what we can deduce from it.But qwe have a problem if you say Jesus is GOD.We have a greater problem if you say he was a prophet and God at the same time cos one cannot be the Messenger boy and the Chairman of the company at the same time.Either one or the other.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the Just

When you say 'we', you mean in Islam, don't you?

What were the prophecies of Jesus?

yaqovzadeek · Dec 22, 2007

SO have you christians decided yet.Was jesus a prophet Like the bible says in many places.many verses. or was he GOD as man claims with nothing to back this up.
Jesus never claimed to be GOD, neither did his disciples ever claim he was GOD.Paul Dieified Jesus, but he was never a disciple henever knew, never met, never heard Jesus.
So those who clim Jesus was GOD bring your evidence.Those who agree Jesus was a prophet as backed up by several bible verses let us discuss.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

français · Dec 22, 2007

yaqovzadeek said:
What other chioces are there I mean the Christians, claim Jesus is GOD we claim he is not so these are the two choices available. Now Jesus cannot be both Prophet and GOD, I do agree with you that the Biblwe says he is a prophet but I disagree that it says he is GOD.Christians claim he is GOD but there is no evidence in the Bible that he is.So if he is a prophet as i beleive he is then may be we can address this verse and see what we can deduce from it.But qwe have a problem if you say Jesus is GOD.We have a greater problem if you say he was a prophet and God at the same time cos one cannot be the Messenger boy and the Chairman of the company at the same time.Either one or the other.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
Aka James the Just

Dude, how can you not see Trinity in the Bible? It is clearly there. "Baptize in the name of the father, son, holy spirit" "before abraham i am" "i am the alpha and the omega" etc etc.

you are in total denial. get a life!

peaceful soul · Dec 22, 2007

yaqovzadeek said:
SO have you christians decided yet.Was jesus a prophet Like the bible says in many places.many verses. or was he GOD as man claims with nothing to back this up.
Jesus never claimed to be GOD, neither did his disciples ever claim he was GOD.Paul Dieified Jesus, but he was never a disciple henever knew, never met, never heard Jesus.
So those who clim Jesus was GOD bring your evidence.Those who agree Jesus was a prophet as backed up by several bible verses let us discuss.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just

You won't let go of your "either or" fallacy. It is you who insist that you are correct by quoting portions of scripture and not addressing others. When scriptures that say that all power is given to Jesus to judge, for example, you avoid it. If we show you that Jesus had power over His life when He said that no one takes his life, but he lays it down himself, what is your response? How about the fact that He forgave sins? Are these human traits or Godly traits? Did any other prophet have these capabilities?

anatolian · Dec 22, 2007

peaceful soul said:
Are these human traits or Godly traits?

John 5:30"By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me."

Salam.What is Jesus' ownself who can do nothing, God?

Disippelen · Dec 22, 2007

Interesting thread.

Christians in this thread have thoroughly "defeated" the Muslims through means of arguments concerning the position of Jesus vs Moses (and the prophet of Islam).

Who is the prophet in Deuteronomy 18:18?

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