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Who Is MichaEL ?

Zetlander

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Not been with SDA long, Got told that MichaEL and Jesus are one and the same. Whats the reasoning on this. Even E.G.W writings dont support this. Has the SDA slipped 'off' its original foundations when it comes to this?

Angels are created beings, whom we will become greater of and rule over in the new kingdom to come according to scripture. So how can jesus be a created being and also be God ? Would appreciate any 'constructive' teaching and even criticism on this topic. Sorry if its a repeat but could find anyhting in the history of posts on this.
 

EastCoastRemnant

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Hi Zetlander... this is a question that many, many people ask and struggle with. as i am at work and don't have my notes in front of me, I'll give you a link to check out from Amazing Facts. It systematically lays out the bible teaching of this topic...

Who Is Michael The Archangel? | Amazing Facts
 
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fozzy

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I have seen many Christians who make this into some kind of test thinking that if Jesus and Michael are the same then that automatically means he is a created being which just shows a complete lack of bible study on this topic.

Jesus Christ as the son of man had a beginning at his incarnation when he was born of the virgin Mary. Jesus Christ as the son of God has no beginning and no ending and is the great 2nd person of the Godhead. In the OT prior to the incarnation, Jesus often took the form of a man and often took the form of an angel. Some examples of this are found in Gen. 18 where the LORD appeared to Abraham in the form of a man and also in Josh. 5 where a man with drawn sword appeared to Joshua and made the ground holy with his presence and accepted worship. Only God could do this and the holy angels never accept worship.

Some examples of Jesus in the form of an angel are found in Ex. 3 where the angel of the LORD appeared to Moses in the burning bush. Verse 4 actually says this was God who was speaking not an ordinary created angel. In Dan. 10 the archangel Michael appears to Daniel and the experience is so powerful that he passes out. His description is almost identical to that of Jesus when he appears to John in the Revelation. With the burning bronze skin and his face that shone like the sun or lightning and eyes that were like lamps of fire and a voice like a multitude or many waters.

Lastly, the Hebrew word for Michael means one who is like God or is God. Jesus the uncreated God of heaven has many names like the Word and the Lamb and Emmanuel and Michael.
 
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Ubuntu

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So how can jesus be a created being and also be God ? Would appreciate any 'constructive' teaching and even criticism on this topic. Sorry if its a repeat but could find anyhting in the history of posts on this.

Angel simply means "messenger". Before Jesus became a human he often came to earth and spoke on behalf of the Godhead, so even if Jesus was a "messenger of the Lord" there is no reason to doubt that he was fully God.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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JojotheBeloved

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As was previously stated by another person, "angel" literally means messenger (it's a Greek word) and in the Bible is used for messengers from God. In this sense, Jesus has one of many roles as a messenger from God. As to whether or not Michael the archangel is a depiction of Jesus, the evidence leans mostly on character comparison. Michael is at the right hand of God's throne as the archangel. Jesus is depicted at the right hand of God as the Son of God and as the High Priest of Israel. In Revelation, the dragon (identified as Satan/the Devil) and his angels battle against Michael and His angels, and since the Devil has been depicted as battling against the Son of God in other places in the Bible it is assumed that this is further evidence of that battling between the personified good and evil forces and therefore Michael must be another name for Jesus.
 
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Adventist Dissident

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As was previously stated by another person, "angel" literally means messenger (it's a Greek word) and in the Bible is used for messengers from God. In this sense, Jesus has one of many roles as a messenger from God. As to whether or not Michael the archangel is a depiction of Jesus, the evidence leans mostly on character comparison. Michael is at the right hand of God's throne as the archangel. Jesus is depicted at the right hand of God as the Son of God and as the High Priest of Israel. In Revelation, the dragon (identified as Satan/the Devil) and his angels battle against Michael and His angels, and since the Devil has been depicted as battling against the Son of God in other places in the Bible it is assumed that this is further evidence of that battling between the personified good and evil forces and therefore Michael must be another name for Jesus.
Appereantly you either did not read the previous post, don't know how to do bible study. Daniel 10 Explicity say Micheal the archangel, Come and help the Being in the White robe (Christ) see Rev 1:12-15 Daniel 10:13“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. Me is the same person in Daniel 10:5,6 13“ 5I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. 6His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult. that person is not Michael
 
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JojotheBeloved

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Appereantly you either did not read the previous post, don't know how to do bible study. Daniel 10 Explicity say Micheal the archangel, Come and help the Being in the White robe (Christ) see Rev 1:12-15 Daniel 10:13“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. Me is the same person in Daniel 10:5,6 13“ 5I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. 6His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult. that person is not Michael

icedragon101 - I do not appreciate your personal attack on my ability to study the Bible. Such attacks are not appropriate in honest discussion. Please refrain from continuing to do so to me or anyone else.

In my previous post, I was not interested in debating with a string of other posters, I was intending to directly reply to the original creator of the thread. In replying to said thread creator, I was attempting to briefly explain common reasoning SDAs use in equating Michael and Jesus from their understandings of scripture. I was not intending to give an exegetical argument for either view as to whether or not this is actually the case.
 
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Ubuntu

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Appereantly you either did not read the previous post, don't know how to do bible study. Daniel 10 Explicity say Micheal the archangel, Come and help the Being in the White robe (Christ) see Rev 1:12-15 Daniel 10:13“But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia. Me is the same person in Daniel 10:5,6 13“ 5I lifted my eyes and looked, and behold, there was a certain man dressed in linen, whose waist was girded with a belt of pure gold of Uphaz. 6His body also was like beryl, his face had the appearance of lightning, his eyes were like flaming torches, his arms and feet like the gleam of polished bronze, and the sound of his words like the sound of a tumult. that person is not Michael

Well, nobody here are contending that there are more than one heavenly characters portrayed in Daniel 10, we all agree about that. You say that many people argue that the character speaking in Daniel 10 is Christ, and point to Revelation 1 to back up this claim.

To answer this I would like to point out that yes, there are parallels between Dan 10 and Rev 1, yet these parallels cannot be used as evidence that Christ is the one speaking in this passage.

If you read Daniel 10 closely you'll find many parallels to the vision of the Cherubim in Ezekiel 1. (Jasper, lightning, torches, polished bronze, the voice like a large crowd.) In fact, I found 5 parallels to the vision of the angels in Ezekiel 1, whereas I found 4 parallels to Revelation 1.

Secondly, in Revelation 1 Christ is also depicted with imagery drawn from the description of God (the Father) in Daniel 7, so parallels alone doesn't settle the discussion here. If they did, then you could argue that Christ is the Father, and that's obviously not the meaning of Revelation 1.

In Daniel 10 the one speaking said: “But Michael, one of the leading princes, came to help me, because I was left there with the kings of Persia.“ This strongly suggest that the speaker isn't Christ, because the preincarnate and omnipotent Christ wouldn't need help from an angel in order to deal with the king of Persia.

So basically there are two possibilities here:

a) The first possibility is that the divine being and the speaker in this passage merely was an unnamed angel, possibly Gabriel.
b) The second possibility is that Christ indeed was the being Daniel saw, but that another angel was present and was the one that spoke to Daniel. As argued here by people that are not adventists: Is Christ in Daniel 10? - Rev. Charles Cooper

Finally, I wanted to point out to you that Adventists believe in the trinity and in the full divinity of Christ. Even if we tend to argue that «Michael» refers to the preincarnated Christ, we believe that Christ wasn't a created being, he was one with the Father from eternity. Thus, there is no need for controversy over this, this is a minor point, and there's definitely no reason for rudeness.
 
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