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Who is in heaven, endtime deception?

EastCoastRemnant

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Interesting SotL, thanx for bringing SOP into the discussion as I am a big proponent of inspiration for our understanding.

Considering the Bible is type vs antitype, this would make perfect sense. I do believe there is merit in the understanding of Jude 1 as speaking of Josuah and not Moses. Besides this verse, is there anywhere else that Moses is mentioned as being translated?
 
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I believe Jude's account was correct and that it was indeed Moses. And to avoid confusion he correctly used Jesus' title of Michael the Archangel (meaning the greatest messenger who is God) because The Son of God was not yet born into the human family.

Lets see what SOP says about Moses' resurrection.

Death and Resurrection of Moses.-

Had not the life of Moses been marred with that one sin, in failing to give God the glory of bringing water from the rock at Kadesh, he would have entered the Promised Land, and would have been translated to heaven without seeing death. But he was not long to remain in the tomb. Christ Himself, with the angels who had buried Moses, came down from heaven to call forth the sleeping saint. Satan had exulted at his success in causing Moses to sin against God, and thus come under the dominion of death. The great adversary declared that the divine sentence-- "Dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return" (Genesis 3:19)-- gave him possession of the dead. THe power of the grave had never been broken, and all who were in the tomb he claimed as his captives, never to be released from his dark prison house.
For the first time Christ was about to give life to the dead. As the Prince of life and the shining ones approached the grave, Satan was alarmed for his supremacy. With his evil angels he stood to dispute an invasion of the territory that he claimed as his own. He boasted that the servant of God had become his prisoner. He declared that even Moses was not able to keep the law of God; that he had taken to himself the glory to to Jehovah-- the very sin which had caused Satan's banishment from heaven-- and by transgression had come under the dominion of Satan. The archtraitor reiterated the original charges that he had made against the divine government, and repeated his complaints of God's injustice toward him.
Christ did not stoop to enter into controversy with Satan. He might have brought against him the cruel work which his deceptions had wrong in heaven, causing the ruin of a vast number of its inhabitants. He might have pointed to falsehoods told in Eden, that had led to Adam's sin and brought death upon the human race. He might have reminded Satan that it was his own work in tempting Israel to murmuring and rebellion, which had wearied the longsuffering patience of their leader,, and in an unguarded moment had surprised him into the sin for which he had fallen under the power of death. But Christ referred all to His Father, saying, "The Lord rebuke thee." Jude 9 The Saviour entered into no dispute with His adversary, but He then and there began His work of breaking the power of the fallen foe, and bringing the dead to life. Here was an evidence that Satan could not controvert, of the supremacy of the Son of God. The resurrection was forever made certain. Satan was despoiled of his prey; the righteous dead would live again.
In consequence of sin Moses had come under the power of Satan. IN his own merits he was death's lawful captive; but he was raised to immortal life, holding his title in the name of the Redeemer. Moses came forth from the tomb glorified, and ascended with his Deliverer to the City of God.
(Patriarchs and Prophets 478, 479)
 
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Concerning Moses' body



4And the LORD said unto him, This is the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, saying, I will give it unto thy seed: I have caused thee to see it with thine eyes, but thou shalt not go over thither.
5So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day. (Deuteronomy 34:4-6)





No man knows where Moses died but the Lord knows all. And no one will ever be able to find his tomb because Christ raised him.
 
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k4c

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Do you have any thoughts on the 24 elders?

As far as John seeing the 24 elders. We don't know who these elders are, whether they are human or angelic, but either way, what John was seeing was not a literal reality, in other words, it's not something that was taking place as he was seeing it in vision, but rather it was something that was to take place sometime in the future. Listen carefully to the verse before it. The 24 elders that the angel showed to John was something that was to take place sometime after, it was not literally happening as John was seeing it.

Revelation 4:1 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show you things which must take place after this."

The angel was about to show John something that was yet to come. This vision could be a glimps into the furture of something that was to take place probably after the resurrection.
 
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k4c

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Servant of the Lord;Hope you don't mind k4c, but I wanted to post some of my thoughts and some of Sister White's testimony here to open the discussion.

Amen... All imput is welcome and tested.


The Bible does not specifically say what Elijah represents so it can be open to interpretation.

In the NT we have a literal resurrection and a spiritual resurrection.

Colossians 2:12 you were buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Colossians 3:1 So, since you were raised with Christ, search for things that are above, where Christ is sitting at God's right side.

To me, I see Elijah in the NT as symbolic of the spirit and power of Elijah working in those who have been born again spiritually. They have received the mantle just as Elisha, in other words, the Spirit of God, which was on Elijah is now with Elisha.

2 Kings 2:14-15 Then he took the mantle of Elijah that had fallen from him, and struck the water, and said, "Where is the Lord God of Elijah?'' And when he also had struck the water, it was divided this way and that; and Elisha crossed over. Now when the sons of the prophets who were from Jericho saw him, they said, "The spirit of Elijah rests on Elisha.'' And they came to meet him, and bowed to the ground before him.

NT believers have been spiritually resurrected and have received the same Spirit that was working in Elijah. They too will ascended into heaven, spirtiually, just as Elijah did symbolically.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us from death and seated us in the heavenly realm with Christ Jesus.

These people can hear the still small voice of God just as Elijah did.

Hebrews 3:7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says: "Today, if you will hear His voice.

John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

Water baptism and the new birth was all ushered in through John the Baptist, which is symbolic for the coming of Elijah in spirit and power.

Matthew 11:12-15 "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. "For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. "And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!

Matthew 17:10-13 And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?'' Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Elijah truly is coming first and will restore all things. "But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.'' Then the disciples understood that He spoke to them of John the Baptist.


I believe this translation is spiritual in a believer's life, not literal. The spiritual resurrection is where the believer ascends into heaven spiritually and is able to hear and understand spiritual matters.

Ephesians 2:6 And God raised us from death and seated us in the heavenly realm with Christ Jesus.

All of the new covenant deals with spiritual matters having to do with the inward man and the new birth where we, just as Elijah, ascend into heaven, spiritually. This is what is meant by the spirit and power of Elijah.

Moses represents the Law on stone and Elijah represents the new birth empowerment. You cannot enter the promise land by keeping the Law in the flesh as seen in Moses. You have to be led into the promise land by Joshua as seen in the Spirit of Christ. There has to be a change of command. We need to go from Moses (the Law) to Joshua (the Spirit) in order to enter the promise land but this does not mean we do away with the Law for even in the promise land they had to obey the Law.
 
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I personally interpret the Bible and SOP just as it reads. I believe we have enough proof to believe that Enoch, Elijah, and Moses are alive today.

Throughout my studies I have always understood that in the NT Moses represents the Law, Elijah the Prophets.

You guys should read "The Two Witnesses" by Pastor Doug, it can be found here: The-Two-Witnesses

SotL
 
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k4c

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These are just some thoughts that I'm bringing to the table for other believers to insert a deeper or clearer understanding. Sometimes other believers can see something that someone else misses. I guess there are some things that just have to be concluded even if there is no biblical support such as Moses being resurrected.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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The 24 elders are first mentioned in Rev 4 and the description given is a clue to who they may be. It says they were "clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold." Rev 4:4

We are told in Rev 3:5 that the saints who overcome will have on this white raiment.

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

The other clue is that they had crowns of gold upon their heads.

1 Cor 9:24,25
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

2 Tim 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

James 1:12
Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

These 24 elders are definitely not angels and the only reference I could find to those having crowns in Heaven are the redeemed saints who also are wearing the white raiment.

As far as timeline goes, the 24 elders are around the throne of God when John sees the seven seals being opened by the Lamb. These seven seals lay our events that happened from the early church right up until the redeemed are on the seas of glass, so the 24 elders had to be present before these things took place.

 
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These are just some thoughts that I'm bringing to the table for other believers to insert a deeper or clearer understanding.


No worries man It's OK we can't always agree on everything
I do appreciate your study and interpretations even though we don't see eye to eye on it all.


Sometimes other believers can see something that someone else misses. I guess there are some things that just have to be concluded even if there is no biblical support such as Moses being resurrected.

OK Not trying to put words in your mouth, but a simple question arises based on this: I have posted what I think is clear support from the SOP that the resurrection of Moses did indeed occur, as did the literal translations of Enoch/Elijah.

Is this statement from E.G.White's false? "Moses came forth from the tomb glorified, and ascended with his Deliverer to the City of God."

Unless there is a different way you are reading that statement than me...but it looks pretty plain to me. I'm just trying to figure out why you haven't directly commented regarding her commentary as of yet.

SoTL
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Brother K4C, I don't believe, hasn't read much if any of sister Whites writings and I don't know if he puts any faith in them.

We understand her inspired writings as the lesser light illuminating the greater light and a blessing for our time to have this present truth. I just don't think K4C subscribes to this.

Please forgive me if I have misrepresented your beliefs K4C but I seem to remember you stating something to that effect in another thread.
 
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k4c

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Is this statement from E.G.White's false? "Moses came forth from the tomb glorified, and ascended with his Deliverer to the City of God."

SoTL

I can only dogmatically receive what I can prove from Scripture. I understand there are many things that are hard to understand, which many of these things can be open to interpretation.

I believe EGW has said many good and biblical things and I don't mind hearing what she has to say but I also understand she has said some things that are not so biblical. Does this make her a fake? Not according to the NT. The NT guideline for prophecy is to not dispise prophecy, but rather, test all things and hold on to that which is good. The Bible also says we know in part and prophesy in part. So when I hear Jesus say He is the only one who ascended to heaven and how the book of Hebrews says, "They all died without receiving the promise" and how Elijah wrote a letter years after he was taken up in a whirlwide I believe we need to do more study to be more clear. I understand how some people are satisfied with what they believe but I struggle with things that can't be proven from Scripture.
 
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k4c

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Many of our Bibles, especially the KJV Bible, are heavily influenced by Catholic theology. Many words and thoughts are injected into translations in order to confirm certain beliefs such as see in 1 John 5:7. In order to confirm a Trinity doctrine certain verses needed to be tweaked or added to support what is taught for example, in the KJV, 1 John 5:7 goes like this.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

If you use this verse to support the Trinity you will find that 1 John 5:7 in the original does not say, "and these three are one". This would cause you to have to search somehwhere alse for support.

It's the same with Matthew 28:19. If you use this verse to prove a Trinity God you would have to find somewhere else to get proof because this too was tweaked by Papal Rome to support a belief.

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

These words, ‘In the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit’ are not the exact words used in the original language. Nowhere in the Bible are we called to do anything in the name of the Spirit nor do we find anywhere in the Bible a command to baptize using this formula. The biblical command for baptism is in the name of Jesus Christ, not the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So who added the words, Father, Son and Holy Spirit?

The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:
"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the second century."

The Jerusalem Bible, a scholarly Catholic work, states:
"It may be that this formula, (Triune Matthew 28:19) so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Man-made) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community. It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing "in the name of Jesus,"..."

"The Demonstratio Evangelica" by Eusebius:
Eusebius was the Church historian and Bishop of Caesarea. On page 152 Eusebius quotes the early book of Matthew that he had in his library in Caesarea. According to this eyewitness of an unaltered Book of Matthew that could have been the original book or the first copy of the original of Matthew. Eusebius informs us of Jesus' actual words to his disciples in the original text of Matthew 28:19: "With one word and voice He said to His disciples: "Go, and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you." That "Name" is Jesus.

The more you test, the less support you will find for certain beliefs injected in by Papal Rome.

For example, if you teach and believe in the holiday called, Easter, you are supporting a pagan belief suppoted by Papal Rome. They say Easter is the celebration of Jesus' resurrection but in fact it's not. Easter doesn't even come on the same day every year because it's not based on Jesus resurrection, but rather, sun worship. Yet, you will find the word, Easter, injected into the Bible to support that belief.

Acts 12:4 And when he had apprehended him, he put [him] in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

That Catholic church use statues, which is against the second commandment. So what was done to fix that? The second commadment was taken out of the Ten Commandments and the tenth commandment was then divided into two commandments so there would still be ten.

There are many of these things all throughout Scritpure that we need to test and study to find the truth. I say all this to say this.

Regarding the 24 elders, we find these verses tweaked to sound as though they are the redeemed, they were the ones who were made kings and priests.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

This too was done to support the belief that people are now alive in heaven, not to mention the fact that the angel tells John that what he was about to see something that was to take place in the future and was not literally happening when John saw it in vision.

So how should these verses be read? These 24 elders are not speaking of themselves as the redeemed nor are they saying they are the kings and priests, but rather, they are saying someone else is. Listen to it based on the original langauge.

Revelation 5:9-10 And they sang a new song: "You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth."

So you see, I have to test all things before I hold on to what is true. This is why I'm sharing these things with my brothers and sisters here to sort through truth and error.
 
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OntheDL

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The firstborn implies the birth rights. 'the first fruit of them that slept' refers to the best. First also denotes primacy, not necessarily chronology.

The first lady of the USA is about the primacy, position, not the oldest lady in the USA.

Peter in the first sermon in the book of Acts said David had not ascended.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

The fact that his sepulchre was with them unto this day was one of the proofs that he has ascended.

However no one knows Moses' sepulcre's whereabouts. Even Satan didn't know about it as he was contending for his body. This is probably the strongest evidence Moses was taken up.

Bare in mind, Lazarus was resurrected by Jesus before Jesus was resurrected Himself.

God can make exceptions to the rule. It's well within His prerogative. The bible also says the soul that sins shalt die. But Elijah was taken to heaven without seeing death.
 
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OntheDL

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Hi K4C

There are two families of manuscripts from which all the bibles are translated.

1. The Greek Majority text. This includes 99.9% of the manuscripts found in existence. This is the basis of which Eramus translated the NT from. And it is the basis for all protestant reformation bibles: KJV, Tyndale, Lutheran...

2. The Greek Minority text. Found in less than 0.1% of the all the Greek manuscripts. These are called Alexandrian text, Viticaniticus and Sinaiticus. These are the foundation of the (corrupt) modern translation.

The KJV is static-equivalent, meaning it was translated word for word based on the vast majority of the manuscripts discovered. I believe God preserved His Word in Hebrew, Greek and then in English (KJV). The modern translations are a (Catholic) attempt to corrupt the pure Word of God.
 
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OntheDL

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ECR,

There is no explicit answer from the bible and SOP on the 24 elders. But I think it's quite clear from the bible who they are.

We know they were redeemed from among men and were made kings and priests. So they were redeemed from the earth.

From the chiastic structure of Revelation, this is in the historic arm. Rev 4 & 5 were the scenes of Inauguration. SOP confirms Christ was inaugurated after ascension.

We know from the typical earthly inauguration/dedication ceremony, when the highpriest was inaugurated, the whole congregation was summoned to the gate of the sanctuary as a 'witness'.

We also know Christ resurrected a special group after His resurrection. They went in the city of Jerusalem to witness. So upon His ascension, they were taken up with Him to be His trophies, witness. They are His congregation, His people that witnessed His inauguration in heaven.

This is the historic belief on this subject I think makes biblical sense. It is best explained if you have studied the sanctuary.

The sanctuary was a blueprint of the plan of salvation God gave to Moses. It has the construct and the confines of all biblical doctrines.

Here is a compilation of a 50-week study. I hope you and K4C can study it in the meantime. God bless!

http://www.christianforums.com/t3039271/

 
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stinsonmarri

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kc4:

Wow! What really is so shocking that ECR is accepting or defending this view. When I provided what the Bible actually stated along with EGW writings about the following:

1. Satan seat, throne or kingdom was establish somewhere Yahweh permitted before the earth was created and made. Jude 1:6,

2. Two evil foes the harlot/Gentile (papacy) and the beast/man (the eight and final or original head) at the endtime Rev 17:1, 16

3. All the angels of Satan will be release at endtime because HS will be withdrawn Joel 2:1-7; Rev 9:1-11

4. Two witnesses (the Scriptures in the 144,000 mind) also the Ark of the Covenant brought up from it hiding place by the Father at the endtime Ps. 119:105, 130; Prov. 6:23; GC 267; TM 105-6, 112-120, 510, 511

5. The image to the beast/man is made by the people of the world encouraged by the false prophet (two horned beast) who give it supposedly life and the image will be able to speak and he is the one who gives out the mark of the beast. The mark is not any Sunday Blue law and EGW did not say that it was. Rev 13:11-17, 19:19; 1BIO p. 146

6. Remnant are not SDA but some SDA along with all other people whom come out of all of the religions of the world. Dan. 1-3, 1o, 12; Rev 12:17

Now I was not treated in the same manner or even given the common courtesy that is presented here about how I came to the conclusion that I commented on interesting isn't it!

First I would like to ask where on earth do "abar" fit into this subject matter? Below are the two words used in Gen 5:24:

'ayin (H369)
to be nothing or not exist;

laqach (H3947)
to take

This word is not a part of any of the Scriptures containing Enoch, Elijah, or Moses nor is it meaning the same as to take!

abar (H5674)
alienate

Here also below is the KJ+ version with the Strong dictionary:

And Enoch (H2585) walked (H1980) with (H854) Elohim: (H430) and he was not; (H369) for (H3588) Elohim (H430) took (H3947) him. Gen 5:24

Not only did Elisha knew that Elijah was going to be taken but all the prophets in Jericho:

And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that Yahweh will take away thy master from thy head today? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2Ki 2:5

I also provide the Greek word which included the whole body of Moses was taken into Heaven.

soma (G4983)
the body (as a sound whole), or the whole body

I also did not read that Peter, James, John or even Yashua was in a vision but they actually saw the real thing. This was revealed to them as did Yashua revealed His Heavenly body before to Moses, Aaron and his two sons, and the seventy elders. They ate and drink with the Son of the Most High and did not die. They did not see Him in His glory because they would not be able to take it. Ex 24:1, 2, 10

And after six days Yashua taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Yashua, Master, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. Mat 17:1-6

Now here is where I will stand with EGW 100% because she was revealed the truth through her visions. I do not agreed with EGW opinions but this is Scriptural but simplified for us to understand.

There I saw good old Enoch, who had been translated. On his right arm he bore a glorious palm, and on each leaf was written "Victory." Around his head was a dazzling white wreath, and leaves on the wreath, and in the middle of each leaf was written "Purity," and around the wreath were stones of various colors, that shone brighter than the stars, and cast a reflection upon the letters and magnified them. EW p. 40

At the transfiguration of Yashua, Moses, and Elijah who had been translated, were sent to talk with Yashua in regard to his sufferings, and be the bearers of the Father Elohim’s glory to his dear Son. 1SP p. 343

I saw that the faith of the disciples was greatly strengthened at the transfiguration. Elohim chose to give the followers of Yashua strong proof that he was the promised Messiah, that in their bitter sorrow and disappointment they should not entirely cast away their confidence. At the transfiguration Yahweh sent Moses and Elias to talk with Yashua concerning his sufferings and death. Instead of choosing angels to converse with his Son, Elohim chose those who had an experience in the trials of earth. 1SG p. 40

Was Enoch immortal? Oh yes because He found favor in Yahweh and became so close to Yahweh where Adam didn't that Yahweh took Him. Do I question what Yahweh can do? No because He is outside of man's box and the Father and Creator of the universe.

If you notice that EGW saw things after the IJ and Enoch had his robe and a wreath that was given after he was sealed. If you understood Rev Chapters five and six you would completely understand the Investigated Judgment. The Father is sitting on throne and His Son as the Lamb comes and take the Book. The same scene Daniel saw also during his time. The Son opens the Book of Life and the first two are sealed are Adam and Eve. The horse is the earth before sin. The second horse is the earth not only with sin but tasting the first human death Abel. But remember we are dealing all who are sealed which include Able to Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives. Now that would include Enoch in this sealing process don't you think? The black horse show how quickly after the flood that sin had again taken over the people of this world through Nimrod! Those who are sealed would be those who stayed with Noah down to the time Yashua was on the earth. Last horse covers two seals because now the earth is in the process of dying. The people are the apostles through the great Reformation because these are the souls under the altar asking for Yahweh to avenge their death. But Yahweh instead tells them to wait and He symbolically gives them their robes different from Enoch, Elijah, and Moses and I tell you why. They were dead and not giving the privilege that the honored three have. In other words when they get to Heaven their robes will be waiting for them! The Heavenly Father also stated they had to rest because more people will give up their lives during the six seal. Some people have died in other countries all over the world for truth but this is referring to those during the Time of Trouble. The 1444, 000 will be the only ones who will finish and bring in the great multitude. So the sixth and final seal is from the Reformation until the Time of Trouble.

Yashua took care of the three men when the Investigated Judgment began and sealed them. The Bible did not change but Yahweh does things according to His will and purpose and they are examples for us as well.

Colossians 1:18 was not referring to Moses but to the ones that came up after Yashua (the firstfruit) was resurrected. Even the old writers like Clarke and Wesley understood this as well.

He might have the preeminence. Literally, “He might come to hold first rank.” Yashua was “declared to be the Son of Elohim with power, … by the resurrection from the dead” (Rom. 1:4; Phil. 2:9). The SDA Bible Commentary, Vol. 7p. 192

Even though Moses was raised before He died in the flesh, Yashua still was first rank because He was Elohim that became flesh. Yashua also had the power as One of the Elohim to be able of His Own accord to pick up His Human body that was dead and revive it. He called Moses to life and Moses was resurrected to live again with immortality.

Finally, once again you are thinking like Greek dogma which you were warned not to in Daniel. Flesh and blood or tissues and all body fluids cannot enter the kingdom of Yahweh. Yes Yashua came through the door after He died but He still had a body! It was more perfect than Enoch, Moses or Elijah because the "Word became flesh," but when He rose His once fleshy body became immortal like His Divinity body. You will understand the mystery if you would allow the Holy Spirit to show you all truth with acceptance. Thomas felt His Human and Divinity Body together as a Spirit. Please stop thinking like the Hellenized world and allow Elohim to show you because to me it is simple. Elohim atoms or molecular structures are different than ours and Yashua show it when He walked through the door. Our bones and appearance will not change that why those three disciples knew who Elijah and Moses was. Wake up this is the great mystery and power of the Almighty Ones and they have revealed it to us but we must understand the Bible as the men of old did and not like our Greek confused minds today!

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 1Co 15:51

Happy Sabbath and Blessings,
stinsonmarri
 
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David Conklin

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>Is this statement from E.G.White's false? "Moses came forth from the tomb glorified, and ascended with his Deliverer to the City of God."

How would we determine the truth or falseness of that sentence?

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
 
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David Conklin

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>Not only did Elisha knew that Elijah was going to be taken but all the prophets in Jericho:

And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that Yahweh will take away thy master from thy head today? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2Ki 2:5

Taken where?

The biblical passage doesn't support what preceeded it.
 
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The same way you would determine anythings validity. To the law and to the testimony. What does the Bible tell us about Moses death and resurrection?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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kc4:


Wow! What really is so shocking that ECR is accepting or defending this view.

If you will refer to post #16 and read it, you will know what I said. I found some points of K4C's study to merit further examination and didn't see other points he had made....
 
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