• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Who has the burden of proof in a debate?

tonychanyt

24/7 Christian
Oct 2, 2011
6,061
2,235
Toronto
Visit site
✟196,380.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I'm responding to A1's assertion of P1. If I fail to accept that proposition as 'true', that doesn't mean that I'm taking up a directly contrary position that it is 'false'.
Then you don't have the burden of proof
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,702
4,640
✟343,635.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You have the burden of proof if and only if you make an assertion.
I have a problem with your P1 statements “there is a God, you have the burden of proof.” and “there is no God, you have the burden of proof.”
Each statement is ambiguous as it contains two separate claims concerning God and the burden of proof.

If the P1 statement is meant to be a conjunction of the two claims there is a missing logical and operator where it should read “there is a God and you have the burden of proof.” and “there is no God and you have the burden of proof.”
Alternatively if the P1 statement is meant to be conditional there is a missing If then condition where it should read “If there is a God then you have the burden of proof.” and “If there is no God then you have the burden of proof.”

Since you introduced ¬P1 into the thread brings the ambiguity into context since the outcomes are different if P1 is a conjunction or conditional statement.
If P1 is a conjunction statement P1 ≡ A Λ B where A and B are the individual claims.
¬P1 ≡ ¬(A Λ B) ≡ ¬A V ¬B where Λ, V are the and, or logical operators respectively.
¬P1 should read “Either there is no God or you do not have the burden of proof.” and “Either there is a God or you do not have the burden of proof.

If P1 is a conditional statement P1 ≡ A → B where → is the if then operator and should read “If there is a God then you have the burden of proof.” and “If there is no God then you have the burden of proof.”
¬P1 ≡ ¬(A → B) ≡ A Λ ¬B.
¬P1 should read “God exists and you do not have the burden of proof.”, “God does not exist and you do not have the burden of proof.

When using mathematical logic one needs to be extremely careful with the terminology
 
Reactions: SelfSim
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,198
16,022
55
USA
✟403,006.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
This would be so much more understandable if it was written in a proper language like Fortran.
 
Reactions: sjastro
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,702
4,640
✟343,635.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This would be so much more understandable if it was written in a proper language like Fortran.
Here is another one of my AI challenges using DeepSeek.

Write up code in Fortran using DeMorgan equations to derive the conjunction and conditional statements for ~P1, ~P2, ~P3, ~P4 where : P1 = “there is a God and you have the burden of proof.” P2 =“there is no God and you have the burden of proof.” P3 = “If there is a God then you have the burden of proof.” P4= “If there is no God then you have the burden of proof.”

Before providing the Fortran code I was admonished by DeepSeek for using the term DeMorgan equations instead of De Morgan's laws .
Referring to De Morgan gave DeepSeek the clue this was an exercise in mathematical logic.


It was able to recognize the the conjunction and conditional statements and came up with the correct answers.

 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,198
16,022
55
USA
✟403,006.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Fabulous. I think I almost understand it.
 
Upvote 0

Larniavc

Leading a blameless life
Jul 14, 2015
14,397
8,800
52
✟376,944.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
UK-Liberal-Democrats
Define ‘let’.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,702
4,640
✟343,635.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
What is the subject of this OP? This is the last time I have asked.
This is an all to familiar pattern I have noticed in your posting history of using red herrings.
If I'm supposed to take your question seriously it puts you in the absurd light of asking what the subject matter is given you are the originator of this thread.
 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Hans Blaster

Hood was a loser.
Mar 11, 2017
21,198
16,022
55
USA
✟403,006.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
What is the subject of this OP? This is the last time I have asked.
I assume that this "exposition" on formal logic and burden of proof (which is not in the scope of the board) is a preliminary to another thread where you will use the claims of this thread to support your position in some apologetic argument (which is very much not allowed here) on this sub-forum. As @sjastro has noted you did this already. First you posted a single post "thread" about Bayes theorem noting that it works if you don't insert arbitrary numbers into it. Then you created an apologetic thread (that was utterly off topic) where you inserted arbitrary numbers into Bayes theorem. I'm only mildly surprised that the forbidden thread hasn't been posted already. (or maybe you're just trying to hide it here under the sybolic logic.)
 
Reactions: sjastro
Upvote 0

The Barbarian

Crabby Old White Guy
Apr 3, 2003
28,722
12,779
78
✟426,135.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Not Physical & Life Sciences
Right. Proof isn't part of science. One merely adds statistical confidence to the point that disagreement is unreasonable.

However, in all debates, the burden of evidence falls on the person making assertions or denials.
 
Upvote 0