Who has read the Book of Mormon?

southcountry said:

I feel sorry for anyone who thinks more of their family than they do of God.

This was one of the points to be made with Abrahams sacrafice.

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I'm no longer responding to that poster, for reasons that are obvious to those who have tried to talk to him, but for someone who insists he knows the Bible so well, he seems to have no idea that the purpose of marriage is to be an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the Church, not to make "spirit babies".

And if, as the Bible teaches, the purpose of marriage is to illustrate the relationship between Christ and the Church, then what would be the point of continuing an Earthly marriage in Heaven, when such an illustration is no longer needed because Christ and His bride, the Church, are finally united?

1 Corinthains7



7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.
8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.










29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.






But, whatever you do, dont read and comprehend what the Bible clearly says on this matter. Lets just ignore all the scripture that clearly proves that you are promoting false doctrine.

South Bound said:

I'm no longer responding to that poster, for reasons that are obvious to those who have tried to talk to him, but for someone who insists he knows the Bible so well, he seems to have no idea that the purpose of marriage is to be an illustration of the relationship between Christ and the Church, not to make "spirit babies".

And if, as the Bible teaches, the purpose of marriage is to illustrate the relationship between Christ and the Church, then what would be the point of continuing an Earthly marriage in Heaven, when such an illustration is no longer needed because Christ and His bride, the Church, are finally united?

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Seems the poster is ignoring my posts,anyway.

Sometimes I think there are plants out there that try to rattle the cage and get info so they can figure out how to twist it later.

But its simple, really. All you have to is read the bible.

All glory goes to God. He is the creator. Not humans.

LegacyJB said:

I was pretty serious with the massive trinity comment. This Trinity theory says God is one. That guy said we'll all be one. I was asking if he believes we'll be one like the trinity theory says about God. Don't assume. Who is "that guy?" And even Mormonism says that the Godhead is one in purpose.

Can I say a marriage of the Savior can be found in any written record? No. Something not found doesn't mean it doesn't exist. We don't know if he is married or not but he never gave any commandments he hasn't kept himself.

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This is something about which you are making another assumption, about which neither you nor anyone else has any real knowledge.

southcountry said:

Seems the poster is ignoring my posts,anyway.

Sometimes I think there are plants out there that try to rattle the cage and get info so they can figure out how to twist it later.

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All the have to do is ask. I'll tell them anything they want to know.

This particular poster claims to have just come back from two years as a Mormon missionary. I can't help but wonder if he talked to the people he was trying to proselytize the way he talks to folks here.

LegacyJB said:

I never said anything close to that. Jesus was not teaching that all marriages dissolve at death, only those performed by tradition. Those sealed by the priesthood keys, the same keys given to Peter to bind on earth and heaven, are eternal. I believe what the Bible says. I believe what Jesus says. Eternal families is true doctrine. You have no idea how strange it is to hear that there are people who actually buy into the "there's no eternal marriage" junk. The person who teaches marriage isn't eternal is Lucifer himself. How can any Christian believe in such devilish doctrine? Your kids won't be your kids, spouse your spouse, or parents your parents? What a dark doctrine indeed. That is a mockery to God, His grace and mercy, and His love and power.

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You believe Joseph Smith's/Mormonism's version of Jesus and authority and marriage and other covenants, among many other things. They differ so vastly from what Jesus and his disciples taught in the Bible that you have come to believe that what you read in your own Bible is "devilish doctrine," according to your very own words here. Perhaps, my friend, it's time to read 2 Nephi 28:21 again, put it into true perspective, and think about that long and hard.

southcountry said:

I feel sorry for anyone who thinks more of their family than they do of God.

This was one of the points to be made with Abrahams sacrafice.

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Amen southcountry.

God has an answer to those who try to hang onto this life, we're to lose it in order to gain life.

Family units are for the temporal human, natural. Spiritual family is eternal.

southcountry said:

Genesis2

18 And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Why did God create a woman from Adams DNA blueprint, and if a gender is so important then why didnt God just create both man and woman at the same time?

Answer: its because that is what was given to THIS world. Just as Enoch, Jesus, and the bible state.

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If you'll notice God created man in chapter 1. Eve is a representation of the church. In the end her progeny defeat the serpent.

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
Gen 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Gen 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Gen 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Gen 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
Gen 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
Gen 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
Gen 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
Gen 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Gen 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head,
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
Rev 12:8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
"And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and thy lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." Revelation 20:4-5.
"In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn." Zechariah 12: 3, 8-10.

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
1Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Cor 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
(Deut 8:3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of יהוה doth man live.)
Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.



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RevelationTestament said:

If you'll notice God created man in chapter 1. Eve is a representation of the church. In the end her progeny defeat the serpent.

Luke 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

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Any understanding of the mystery of creation has to agree with what Jesus and the apostles said, or it is of the wrong spirit.


1 Corinthians 7:31
29 But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;
30 And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;
31 And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

Luke 20:35
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.


Luke 20 :25 He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.


Luke 14: 26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.


As a side note, even the Book of Enoch echos this:
Chapter 15
2Wherefore have you forsaken the lofty and holy heaven, which endures for ever, and have lain with women; have defile yourselves with the daughters of men; have taken to yourselves wives; have acted like the sons of the earth, and have begotten an impious offspring?
3You being spiritual, holy, and possessing a life which is eternal, have polluted yourselves with women; have begotten in carnal blood; have lusted in the blood of men; and have done as those who are flesh and blood do.
4These however die and perish.
5Therefore have I given to them wives, that they might cohabit with them; that sons might be born of them; and that this might be transacted upon earth.
6But you from the beginning were made spiritual, possessing a life which is eternal, and not subject to death for ever.
7Therefore I made not wives for you, because, being spiritual, your dwelling is in heaven.

LegacyJB said:

I think more of God than I do anyone else, including my family, but that does not mean I'm shoving my family unit in the closet, so to speak, when I get into the kingdom of God. They will still be my family because we are sealed by the priesthood of God. You will not find a church on the earth, who denies the eternal nature of the family, that is sanctioned by God. Such doctrine is not of His kingdom.

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This statement is untrue.

LegacyJB said:

Here's the most important thing: I've asked God if the Book of Mormon is true. He has told me yes. Since it's true, this is Jesus Christ's church and the doctrines found within are His. What greater witness can one have than from God? Is God going to lie? Can you prove or disprove God gave someone a certain answer? No. Yet I know it's true. By God's holy name I know it. Any Christian who claims Jesus and the apostles didn't teach about eternal families knows not the Christ who died on the cross, Jesus of Nazareth. He who was born of the virgin Mary.

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Satan can whisper in ears too.

I deny the eternal nature of families and I am a Christian and know the Christ who died on the cross, Jesus of Nazareth. He who was born of the virgin Mary.

LegacyJB said:

I don't know why He created Eve from Adam and to be honest that isn't important. Regardless, we have our sexes (not the same as gender by the way).

We will always have our sexes in this life and the next, the righteous and unrighteous. We aren't spirits without identities. In this and the next life I'll be a male.

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Sure its important.

There is a lot more to our souls than our physical gender. And its sort of a limiting quality, dont you think? I dont think Gods creations are limited to gender-based reproduction. Its a marvelous feature, sure, but it is just one creation and not eternal like our souls shall be.


Also, if you read Genesis you will see that Eve had Cane and Able AFTER they were kicked out if the Garden of Eden......Why was that?

LegacyJB said:

Here's the most important thing: I've asked God if the Book of Mormon is true. He has told me yes. Since it's true, this is Jesus Christ's church and the doctrines found within are His. What greater witness can one have than from God? Is God going to lie? Can you prove or disprove God gave someone a certain answer? No. Yet I know it's true. By God's holy name I know it. Any Christian who claims Jesus and the apostles didn't teach about eternal families knows not the Christ who died on the cross, Jesus of Nazareth. He who was born of the virgin Mary.

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Well, I really dont know what to tell you. I think that God give us knowledge to use for a reason, and that the bible contains a lot of that knowledge we need to discern right from wrong.

The Dead Sea Scrolls prove that it has been reproduced with negligible errors for 2000 years, I cant simply ignore Jesus words he left as a witness for all of us to believe a warm feeling in your belly.

LegacyJB said:

Here's the most important thing: I've asked God if the Book of Mormon is true. He has told me yes. Since it's true, this is Jesus Christ's church and the doctrines found within are His. What greater witness can one have than from God? Is God going to lie? Can you prove or disprove God gave someone a certain answer? No. Yet I know it's true. By God's holy name I know it. Any Christian who claims Jesus and the apostles didn't teach about eternal families knows not the Christ who died on the cross, Jesus of Nazareth. He who was born of the virgin Mary.

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Yes, I believed it, too, for four decades - believed it, lived it, taught it, ate, drank, and breathed it, with all my heart and soul. I said all the same things you say now. It was the work of two devout LDS women who changed my mind, and they weren't particularly trying to change my mind, and I wasn't even seeking at the time to have my mind changed. But when I read their impeccably detailed historical work, supported by material accessed by permission from general authorities and documented by hundreds of creditable publications, most of them LDS, my belief in Joseph Smith died a violent death and my world came crashing down all around me. What was that still, small voice, you ask, that I believed had confirmed the truth of the missionaries' teachings? It was nothing more than my own fervent desire for it to be true, based on the church's artful expertise in creating those missionary lessons. At the tender age of 19, I went for it hook, line, and sinker; went for my endowment less than a year later and was married in the Mesa temple a year after that. Getting out after all those years of living and teaching "the gospel" was the most excruciating experience of my life, but now that the pain has subsided, I thank God every day for bringing me out. You, LJB, are still deep inside, and you are probably feeling sorry for me about now - worried for the covenants and blessings you feel I've renounced. Don't you worry about me, my friend. For the first time in my life I feel truly free to worship God without feeling the need for someone higher up to tell me how to do that according to some contrived church rule. My only High Priest is Jesus Christ, and He is all I will ever need.

LegacyJB said:

I think more of God than I do anyone else, including my family, but that does not mean I'm shoving my family unit in the closet, so to speak, when I get into the kingdom of God. They will still be my family because we are sealed by the priesthood of God. You will not find a church on the earth, who denies the eternal nature of the family, that is sanctioned by God. Such doctrine is not of His kingdom.

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Friend,
Eternal marriage is of the new and everlasting covenant.
Traditional Orthodox take a vow that ends "until death do you part." So yes, they deny the eternalness of family, and cannot receive it.
They do not understand the full doctrine because Christ said the resurrected have no marriage and cannot marry. This is quite true. It is then too late. If they aren't sealed by then, they cannot have an increase for judgment time is upon them.
Peace

LegacyJB, We each stand on our own here and on judgement day. There is no secret ceremony that will magically award you a continuance of this life, although you may desire it, and limited as it may be. There are no " degrees" to move up through.

There are many warnings throughout the bible about the lust of the flesh, and to be frank and honest with you, I believe Mormonism is a trap to keep you from knowing the true God. It is man-made and self exalting ,to keep you rooted in a flesh based system, using "family" as a cloak to indoctrinate you with its final theology " man becoming God".

You need to think long and hard about where all this leads.

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

LegacyJB said:

Here's the most important thing: I've asked God if the Book of Mormon is true. He has told me yes. Since it's true, this is Jesus Christ's church and the doctrines found within are His. What greater witness can one have than from God? Is God going to lie? Can you prove or disprove God gave someone a certain answer? No. Yet I know it's true. By God's holy name I know it. Any Christian who claims Jesus and the apostles didn't teach about eternal families knows not the Christ who died on the cross, Jesus of Nazareth. He who was born of the virgin Mary.

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That proves nothing. Do you not think the pope believes that God told him he is right? Do you not think that Methodists and Lutherans believe that God has told them that their way is true? My brother claims that God spoke to him and told him there are many ways to heaven, that you don't have to come through Jesus. That proves nothing except that there are lying spirits. God has told me that the book of Mormon is not true. That proves absolutely nothing.

Such a ridiculous statement/argument to make.