T
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Monica02 said:My understanding of the Catholic teaching is that one will go to hell if one dies in a state of mortal sin. For a sin to be mortal three conditons must be met:
The sin is of grave matter.
It must be committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent.
See Cathechism of the Catholic Church, paragraphs #1857-1859.
EWTN website has a queston forum. You might want to check them out. EWTN is pretty orthodox and the priests on the question forum are knowledgable.
Thannks for the interest. I am not articulate enough to answer your questions and not computer smart enough to link you to anything. I apologize for my ignorance. Perhaps a cleverer Catholic will post. I mentioned EWTN because they are very orthodox , and there is alot of Catholic nonsense out there. Boston College, like most "Catholic " schools is questionable. I do not know about this particular prof., but just be weary of any info that is labeled "catholic".True_KeN said:Could you also define "in a state"? Does the person have to die WHILE committing the sin? Or maybe the person has committed ANY of these sins with full knowledge and deliberate intent in the period of his life? If it is the former, then what if a person dies in her sleep? If it is the latter, does having faith in God and Jesus Christ have any effect? Is lacking faith in God considered to be a mortal sin? From your catholic teachings do you have ANY ideas regarding the issue of ignorance?
Thanks!
No exceptions. If one's faith is true then it is because God has given them the gift of faith. God does not do this for someone only to end up sending them to hell.True_KeN said:I assume that if someone believes and has faith in God and accepts God and accepts that Jesus Christ died for our sins then he will go to heaven and not hell. Are there any exceptions to this?
The Bible does not say if there are any babies that go to hell.If a baby dies will it go to hell?
As there is only one path to Heaven, and that through Christ, a person's ignorance of Christ is not an accident and therefore God has not made atonement for their sins.Can someone go to hell through ignorance of God?
The Bible does not say.If someone is mentally retarded and cannot understand or apreciate the concept of God, will this person go to hell?
Hope that helps. Sorry for the ambiguity of my answers but, unfortunately, the Bible does not go into detail about the answers to these questions so any answers we give are merely speculation.Thanks!!!
The ability to believe in Christ unto salvation is not the product of responsible reasoning, epistemologically or otherwise. It is the product of God giving that gift of His grace. If a person does not have faith then they are left to atone for their own sins and will, without exception, be unable to do so.True_KeN said:According to the bible, what happens to a man that, through his own epistemically responsible reasoning, is unable to believe in the bible and the Christian God?
He is then responsible to make atonement for his sins and will fail and be condemned to hell.What will happen to him when he dies if he is unable to have faith and believe in God?"
This is utterly unbiblical. God is the Judge and all mankind will be judged by the Judge. Those whose sins have been atoned for by the work of Christ will be found worthy on the basis of Christ's obedience. Those whose sins were not atoned for will be found unworthy and will be condemned. Our place in the family of God is not the product of making a decision to accept God as our Lord. Accepting God as our Lord is the result of Him giving us faith.His response was as follows:
"The short answer is that God does not condemn anyone, but that when
given an informed decision, one chooses heaven or hell, accepts God or
rejects God.
Yes we're responsible for seeking the Truth but we're culpable regardless of whether we search. The difference between the saved and the unsaved is whether Christ has made atonement for their sins.We're responsible for searching for the truth, and according
to Scripture, Christ says seek and you shall find. If we choose not to
search we're culpable.
God is omnipotent and the idea that He could not or would not enlighten someone He intended to save is blasphemy. If someone is ignorant of God then it's because God decreed that they not be enlightened unto salvation. It wasn't an accident.but surely our choices, habits, and actions play a role in preparing for what is a final decision. At any rate, at that final moment, God will not condemn because of ignorance, but because of choice."
Absolutely not. It's unbiblical to say the least.I was curious if this answer could be generally agreed upon by other Christians.
That's because it's not a biblically based answer.I have been unable to find a source from the bible itself that proves or substantiates this answer that I received.
It's incorrect because it denies God's omnipotency. It operates off the assumption that God desires that someone be saved but does nothing to ensure that they are. God does not operate that way. The Bible says that whatsoever God purposes will come to pass (Job 42:2). If, as this "theology" professor contends, God intended to save someone but did not make Himself known to them then it speaks of a God whose actions, or lackthereof, contradict His desires. God is not divided.If it is not accepted I am also curious as to why this professors answer is incorrect, or possibly insufficient.
It isn't silent about it. It just isn't point blank. The proper way to understand Scripture is to first have a proper understanding of God. We cannot anthropomorphize Him and expect to get any coherency in our beliefs. If we acknowledge and submit to the view that God is omnipotent and whatsoever He purposes shall surely come to pass then the clear inference is that if something doesn't come to pass, e.g., the salvation of a person or their enlightenment to His truth, then it wasn't His desire for that to come to pass. As for "ignorance," I think that there are few that could claim such a thing. The created order that each of us is exposed to in every aspect of our lives from the magnificence of the world itself to the individual inhabitants, including ourselves, it would be ludicrous to act as if it isn't the work of a divine being. God's Word tells us that what may be known of Him, even unto the Godhead, is seen in creation so we are without excuse(Romans 1:19,20).P.S. On a sidenote, it bothers me a little that the bible could be silent on such an important topic. To humans, the possibly of life after death for eternity is an infinitely significant one and I do not understand why the bible seems to be silent on this issue (unless it is simply my ignorance of the bible). So many things in the bible seem to be written about ideas that are much less important than this one.
You're welcome.True_KeN said:Reformationist,
Thank you very much that has helped a lot.
I don't currently claim any particular denominational affiliation but my views are most closely related to Orthodox Presbyterianism.If I may ask, what denomination are you?
No, but "reformed" is a title given to churches who adhere to the teachings of a number of theologians, notably Luther, Calvin and Zwingli, among others.Is "Reformationist" a denomination?
Well, that would take some doing but for the purpose of keeping this short you could do a search on John Calvin's teachings or reformed teachings or, if you want a concise list of some primary differences, search on TULIP as it relates to theology.If it is can you clue me in on some of the significant differences it (or whatever your denomination is) has with the other major denominations?
I'm sure that the professor's views accurately represent the teachings of the Catholic faith. I just happen to believe that the teachings of the Catholic church are unbiblical.Do you disagree with this professor because he is wrong within his own denomination (Catholicism) or because you feel his denomination is wrong?
Hello Ken. The Bible doesn't really focus on hell so much because that is not God's will that any perish. You will find that there is a huge controvery among Christians about salvation - whether it a man's choice or God's choice on who will be saved.True_KeN said:One of the reasons why I ask this question is because I am curious about the role ignorance plays in heaven and hell. I gave my brother a question to ask his theology professor from last year. My brother goes to Boston College, a catholic institution. My question was not originally in regards to ignorance itself. Here is the question I had asked:
"According to John 3:18, " 'He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.' According to the bible, what happens to a man that, through his own epistemically responsible reasoning, is unable to believe in the bible and the Christian God? What will happen to him when he dies if he is unable to have faith and believe in God?"
His response was as follows:
"The short answer is that God does not condemn anyone, but that when
given an informed decision, one chooses heaven or hell, accepts God or
rejects God. We're responsible for searching for the truth, and according
to Scripture, Christ says seek and you shall find. If we choose not to
search we're culpable. Whether this condemns us is another
question---what happens the other side of death is unknown, but surely our choices,
habits, and actions play a role in preparing for what is a final
decision. At any rate, at that final moment, God will not condemn because of
ignorance, but because of choice."
I was curious if this answer could be generally agreed upon by other Christians. I have been unable to find a source from the bible itself that proves or substantiates this answer that I received. While I think a theology professor would be a good citation nonetheless for the paper that I am writing, I would ideally like actual quotes from the bible or atleast to understand why this answer is accepted among Christians. If it is not accepted I am also curious as to why this professors answer is incorrect, or possibly insufficient.
P.S. On a sidenote, it bothers me a little that the bible could be silent on such an important topic. To humans, the possibly of life after death for eternity is an infinitely significant one and I do not understand why the bible seems to be silent on this issue (unless it is simply my ignorance of the bible). So many things in the bible seem to be written about ideas that are much less important than this one.
Thanks for any help!
I don't know who this was directed at but predestination is not a belief that purports that babies go to hell.shprdslamb7 said:Yes, I understand that opinion might be based on emotion but it is utterly ridiculous to believe God would condemn babies to hell. You must believe in predestination.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?