Who believes in entire sanctification?

[HatGuy]

I'm interested in connecting with those who believe in the doctrine of entire sanctification - in the Wesleyan fashion.

Anybody here who does? If so, what literature would you recommend (besides Wesley himself- read lots of his stuff).

Thanks!

 

[circuitrider]

You are going to need to define terms as to what you mean by "entire sanctification." I can think of several ways to define it.

 

[dayhiker]

I attended a Nazarene church for 10 years. One pastor in our church taught this. I never saw a book that had the doctrine all laid out.
I also didn't think what this pastor said lined up with the word on the topic. So I never did come to believe it.

 

[HatGuy]

You are going to need to define terms as to what you mean by "entire sanctification." I can think of several ways to define it.

Thanks for replying. I'm not sure exactly what terms you might be looking for, but I might say that I'm referring to the work of the Holy Spirit where you are freed from the POWER of sin, and this time of being free from it is a definitive time you can point back to - not just a gradual process (although, also that).

 

[HatGuy]

I attended a Nazarene church for 10 years. One pastor in our church taught this. I never saw a book that had the doctrine all laid out.
I also didn't think what this pastor said lined up with the word on the topic. So I never did come to believe it.

Thanks for replying Interesting that only one pastor in your Nazarene church taught it. My understanding is this is a foundational doctrine for them.

 

[circuitrider]

Here is a quote from the Confession of Faith of the EUB, one of the bodies that merged to form the United Methodist Church. This is part of the official doctrine of the UMC.

Article XI - Sanctification and Christian Perfection

We believe sanctification is the work of God's grace through the Word and the Spirit, by which those who have been born again are cleansed from sin in their thoughts, words and acts, and are enabled to live in accordance with God's will, and to strive for holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

Entire sanctification is a state of perfect love, righteousness and true holiness which every regenerate believer may obtain by being delivered from the power of sin, by loving God with all the heart, soul, mind and strength, and by loving one's neighbor as one's self. Through faith in Jesus Christ this gracious gift may be received in this life both gradually and instantaneously, and should be sought earnestly by every child of God.

We believe this experience does not deliver us from the infirmities, ignorance, and mistakes common to man, nor from the possibilities of further sin. The Christian must continue on guard against spiritual pride and seek to gain victory over every temptation to sin. He must respond wholly to the will of God so that sin will lose its power over him; and the world, the flesh, and the devil are put under his feet. Thus he rules over these enemies with watchfulness through the power of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ContraMundum]

I'm interested in connecting with those who believe in the doctrine of entire sanctification - in the Wesleyan fashion.

Anybody here who does? If so, what literature would you recommend (besides Wesley himself- read lots of his stuff).

Thanks!

I do- as I understand it. There's different angles on it around.

As for reading material- there's enough on this site and this site and this publishing house to keep you going for years. Covers a few different perspectives.

So much good stuff out there. Gets one excited!

 

[faroukfarouk]

You are going to need to define terms as to what you mean by "entire sanctification." I can think of several ways to define it.

Good question; the pivotal question, is: what are the different Biblical aspects of the doctrine of sanctification?

 

[Maid Marie]

Hello, as a Nazarene pastor, yes, I believe in entire sanctification. And yes, it is foundational for the denomination. There are two schools of thought on it - the American Holiness view and the Wesleyan view. The American Holiness view is not one that I subscribe to [sinful nature is eradicated and it happens rather instantaneously - might be the preaching that Dayhiker experienced]. I prefer Wesleyan Holiness view. Some authors I'd recommend are Randy Maddox, Diane Leclerc, Tom Oord [his book Relational Holiness is the BEST], Mildred Bangs Wynkoop, William Greathouse, Ray Dunning, and Al Truesdale. www.nph.com is the website for the Nazarene Publishing House.

 

[HatGuy]

Thanks everyone for the responses and links - such great stuff there, thank you!

I found this diagram on the net that outlines various Protestant views. How accurate would you say this is? It seems to me that the American Holiness view and the Wesleyan view here are viewed as one and the same?

 

[dayhiker]

HatGuy ... thanks for posting that chart ... great way to visualize different teaching.

I guess I'm most tuned into the Reformed view on this topic. The Wesleyan view I interpret the verse they refer to about a 2nd experience as better understood as in a Pentecostal way.

Maid Marie .. yes, that was my understanding of his teaching, an eradication of the sinful nature. Which clearly didn't match his testimony! Or any one else I know including myself.

 

[circuitrider]

I'm not comfortable with the way the chart describes Methodist/Nazarene views of sanctification. It isn't about faith in Christ and then faith in the Holy Spirit. Both Justification and Sanctification are by God's grace alone. I don't sanctify myself by having faith in the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is God's work in us not my work.

 

[Maid Marie]

HatGuy ... thanks for posting that chart ... great way to visualize different teaching.

I guess I'm most tuned into the Reformed view on this topic. The Wesleyan view I interpret the verse they refer to about a 2nd experience as better understood as in a Pentecostal way.

Maid Marie .. yes, that was my understanding of his teaching, an eradication of the sinful nature. Which clearly didn't match his testimony! Or any one else I know including myself.

That's the American Holiness view, not the Wesleyan view. More and more preachers [like myself] are preaching the Wesleyan view of Holiness and not the AHM view. I find that it is more true to scripture and more true to experience. The change came about when theologians started to have access to more of John Wesley's original writings [so that they could see how the AHM differed from JW on holiness]. Then when Mildred Bangs Wynkoop wrote Theology of Love, it really introduced people to new way of viewing holiness - a Wesleyan way.

BTW, the CotN at a General Assembly about 12 years ago or so voted to remove from the Article of Faith on Sanctification the part about eradication of sin.

 

[Maid Marie]

I'm not comfortable with the way the chart describes Methodist/Nazarene views of sanctification. It isn't about faith in Christ and then faith in the Holy Spirit. Both Justification and Sanctification are by God's grace alone. I don't sanctify myself by having faith in the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is God's work in us not my work.

I agree. Oh how I agree - I shuddered when I looked at how they characterized the Methodist/Nazarene views of sanctification.

 

[Maid Marie]

Here's how I approach this when discussing it with others. Our sanctification begins when the Holy Spirit starts drawing us into a salvation relationship with the triune God. When we give our lives to Christ, we have all of the Holy Spirit. As we grow in Christ and come to a moment when we consecrate our entire lives to God, the Holy Spirit has all of us. Part of that consecration involves asking God to make us "perfect for him to use" [Christian perfection]. This doesn't mean be flawless in behavior [a Greek thought, not a biblical thought] but be people that are so filled with God's love that he can use us for his service. The focus isn't on "have I sinned today?" but rather on "have I loved others with the Love of Christ today?" and then asking God for more of his love so that the love shown is natural and effortless.

 

[HatGuy]

I agree. Oh how I agree - I shuddered when I looked at how they characterized the Methodist/Nazarene views of sanctification.

If you were to draw a chart like that, how would you draw it? I'm thinking something like a mix between the first and third?

 

[Maid Marie]

If you were to draw a chart like that, how would you draw it? I'm thinking something like a mix between the first and third?

To show Wesleyan view or American Holiness view?

 

[dayhiker]

Hi Maid Marie,
I looked into the book Theology of Love, the reviews I read I really liked.

Personally, the teaching of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit lines up perfectly with what I experienced. So when I read the NT if feel like I know what they are talking about
since it matches my experience with the Holy Spirit and the moving of God in my life.
Not sure how the book teaches love, but I say I have two commands to obey, to love God and to love people. Since I have ignored man made rules and loved God as the
Holy Spirit leads me I've had more joy in God than I ever did trying to follow the many preachers I've listened to over the years.

I don't know if I'll get time to read the book, but its on my radar now, so maybe some day.

That's the American Holiness view, not the Wesleyan view. More and more preachers [like myself] are preaching the Wesleyan view of Holiness and not the AHM view. I find that it is more true to scripture and more true to experience. The change came about when theologians started to have access to more of John Wesley's original writings [so that they could see how the AHM differed from JW on holiness]. Then when Mildred Bangs Wynkoop wrote Theology of Love, it really introduced people to new way of viewing holiness - a Wesleyan way.

BTW, the CotN at a General Assembly about 12 years ago or so voted to remove from the Article of Faith on Sanctification the part about eradication of sin.

 

[ContraMundum]

I'm not comfortable with the way the chart describes Methodist/Nazarene views of sanctification. It isn't about faith in Christ and then faith in the Holy Spirit. Both Justification and Sanctification are by God's grace alone. I don't sanctify myself by having faith in the Holy Spirit. Sanctification is God's work in us not my work.

I have to agree.

 

[Maid Marie]

Hi Maid Marie,
Not sure how the book teaches love, but I say I have two commands to obey, to love God and to love people. Since I have ignored man made rules and loved God as the Holy Spirit leads me I've had more joy in God than I ever did trying to follow the many preachers I've listened to over the years.

Then you should enjoy the book. You'd also enjoy the book "Relational Holiness". http://www.amazon.com/Relational-Holiness-Responding-Call-Love/dp/0834121824