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Who are the Gentiles?

christian1488

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This is an important study on who the gentiles are and what gentiles mean,I felt it was best to post it all,please read carefully,and enjoy!

Who are the Gentiles?

by Bertrand L. Comparet
It is unfortunate that most people have so many mistaken ideas about their religion, due largely to the many mistranslations of words in the commonly-used King James Version of the Bible. One of these mistaken ideas is that most of the people of the United States and Western Europe--in fact, nearly all the Christians -in the world--are "Gentiles." You hear many of them--even clergymen, who should know better -- say, "I'm just a Gentile, saved by grace." I think it is high time that we learned something about one of the most mis-used words, "Gentile.

First, you might be surprised to know that there is no such word in the Bible, in its original languages. Oh yes, I know that you are now riffling the pages of your King James Version, looking for some of the many places you will find "Gentile" in it. But I said that there is no such word in the Bible IN ITS ORIGINAL LANGUAGES. The word was put into it by translators, who changed the wording of the Bible centuries after the last book in the Bible was written. If you are a good Christian, you will surely agree with me that what the prophets originally wrote in the books which make up our Bible was inspired by God. It was correct as the prophets wrote it. But not one of them wrote in English, remember, because no such language as English existed until many centuries after the prophets lived. It was written in Hebrew, as to the Old Testament; and the New Testament was originally written in the language which Jesus Christ spoke, Aramaic, a Semitic dialect somewhat similar to, but not the same as, Hebrew. But Aramaic was not generally understood outside of Western Asia; so when Christianity began to spread into southern and southeastern Europe, the New Testament had to be translated into a language which was widely used in Europe. Greek served this purpose nicely, for it was understood by well-educated men over nearly all of Europe. Therefore, the New Testament was first translated into Greek. Protestant English-language translations of the Bible, today, are nearly all translated from H Hebrew manuscripts of the Old Testament and Greek manuscripts of the New Testament. So, let us start at the beginning, with the Old Testament.
The word "Gentile" is not even once used in any Hebrew manuscript of the Old Testament, for the good reason that there is no such word in Hebrew, nor any word which corresponds to it. Everywhere you find the word "Gentile" used in the Old Testament, it is a mistranslation of the Hebrew word "GOY," which means "NATION." The plural form of it is "GOYIM." Since it means "nation," why didn't they translate it correctly? Sometimes they did; but for the most part, they translated it to fit the official doctrines of the church of their day, no matter what violence that did to the true meaning of the word. The church hierarchy had long since determined what its doctrines should be: and if the Bible didn't agree with them, so much the worse for the Bible. Men were still being burned at the stake for heresy, in those days, and "heresy" meant any religious idea which differed from the official doctrines proclaimed by the bishops. So the translators did the best the Church would allow them to do. Let us take some examples.
In Genesis 12: 2, God said to Abram, "I will make of thee a great nation." In Hebrew, God said "I will make of thee a great GOY. " It would have been too silly to translate that "I will make a Gentile of you," so they correctly translated it "nation." Again Genesis 25:23, Rebekah was pregnant with the twins, Esau and Jacob; and while still in her womb, the unborn children were struggling against each other; so she wondered at this, and asked of God what was the meaning of this? God said to her, "Two GOYIM are in thy womb." Certainly God was not telling her, "You are an adulteress, pregnant with two Gentile children, when your husband is not a Gentile." God said "Two NATIONS are in thy womb," and that is the way it was translated; but it is that same word, "GOYIM," which elsewhere they generally translate as "Gentiles."
Now let us take some examples from the New Testament.
Here the word mistranslated "Gentile" is nearly always the Greek word, "ETHNOS" which means just exactly "NATION," the same as the Hebrew word "Goy." Luke 7 begins with the incident of a Roman Centurion who appealed to Jesus Christ to heal his servant who was sick unto death. The Elders of the Jews praised him to Jesus, saying "He loveth our ETHNOS, and hath built us a synagogue." These Jews would never praise anyone for loving the Gentiles; and the Centurion would not have built a synagogue for Gentiles. So, to avoid complete absurdity, the translators were forced to translate "ETHNOS" correctly, as "NATION." Again, in John 11: 50, we find that the Jewish High Priest, Caiaphas, was plotting with the chief priests and Pharisees, to murder Jesus Christ; and Caiaphas told them, "it is expedient for us that one man should die for the people, and that the whole ETHNOS perish not." Nothing could have pleased this evil Jew more than for all the Gentiles to perish--using the word "Gentile" as we do today. Therefore, the translators had to translate "ETHNOS" correctly, as "nation." Yet in many other places they mistranslate it "Gentile."
The Greek word "ETHNOS" means simply "nation," nothing more or less. It has no pagan, or non-Israel, or even non-Greek connotation. The Greeks distinguished between Greeks and all non-Greek peoples, whom they called "Barbarians." All educated men of that day knew this, and the Apostle Paul was a very well-educated man, who was quite familiar with the Greek language and its idioms. He recognized this distinction in Romans 1: 14, where he said, "I am debtor both to the Greeks and to the Barbarians." Paul, therefore, never wrote the word "Gentile" in any of his Epistles.
What does this word "Gentile" mean, and from what is it derived? It is derived from the Latin word "GENTILES," which means "ONE WHO IS NOT A ROMAN CITIZEN." If you use the word correctly, then you would have to say that Jesus Christ and His twelve disciples were all Gentiles, because none of them was a Roman Citizen. Only Paul could say that he was not a "Gentile," because in the 22nd chapter of Acts, Paul says that he was a Roman citizen by birth.
How, then, is it used at present when the speaker means to say that someone is non-Jewish? About the fourth century A.D., its use was loosely extended to cover more than its original meaning. It was applied especially to those who were heathen, pagan; it became a term for those who were neither Christian. nor Jewish, for Christians and Jews were generally called just that, (Christian; or Jew). But this was centuries after the last book in the New Testament had been written.
The word "Gentile" was never used by the writer of any book of the Old Testament, because none of them had ever heard it, as they had never come in contact with Rome. It was not used by the writer of any book of the New Testament, for there is no such word in the Hebrew, Aramaic or Greek languages. They did not borrow the word from the Latin, for if you will look up every place it is used in your King James Version, you will see that it is never used in the correct sense, to say that someone is not a Roman citizen; and that is the only meaning it had, the only way anybody used it, in those days. It was put in by the translators in an effort to make the Bible say what the translators thought it should have said. Therefore, it has no authority at all.
In short, wherever you see the word "Gentile" in the Bible, remember that the correct word is "nation," "race," or "people." Sometimes it is used when speaking of ISRAEL nations or the ISRAELITE race, as we have seen in the examples I have given you. In other instances, the context will show that it is being used of a nation which is non-Israelite. Only the context in which it is used will show you which meaning to give it. When used of non-Israelite peoples, perhaps "Gentile" is as good a word as any, for we seem to have no other in general use. But never be deceived by reading the word "Gentile" in your Bible, for its only correct meaning is "nation" or "race."
 

CryptoLutheran

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I don't usually waste my time with large blocks of poorly formatted text copy and pasted from other websites to begin with.

I am a Gentile, a goy, a member of "the nations"; i.e. a non-Israelite, a non-Hebrew. My biological heritage are the Celtic peoples of the Eire, who were mostly druids as Germanic and Norse people who revered Odin and Thor. My ancestors didn't worship YHVH, at least not until Sts. Patrick and Boniface came preaching the Gospel to them.

And I'm okay with that. The Gospel is for everybody, God loves everyone.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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christian1488

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I don't usually waste my time with large blocks of poorly formatted text copy and pasted from other websites to begin with.

I am a Gentile, a goy, a member of "the nations"; i.e. a non-Israelite, a non-Hebrew. My biological heritage are the Celtic peoples of the Eire, who were mostly druids as Germanic and Norse people who revered Odin and Thor. My ancestors didn't worship YHVH, at least not until Sts. Patrick and Boniface came preaching the Gospel to them.

And I'm okay with that. The Gospel is for everybody, God loves everyone.

-CryptoLutheran

And I'm okay with that. The Gospel is for everybody, God loves everyone.

Alright,so you think that God can change even though it is stated God does not change?
Even though God only chose one people,Israel and Jesus was only sent to Israel?

That statement God loves everyone contradicts half the Bible!

If God loves everyone then that means God has changed!

Malachi 3:6:For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
 
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Jpark

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Interesting. Reminds me of Matt. 12:38-45.

And after doing further searching,

Luke 11:50-51 so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.’

Luke 17:25 But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

So you may have a point. However, I still don't fully agree. NT Scripture identifies the believer's enemy as Satan (Eph. 6:12) and the Jews as enemies for the sake of the gospel (because they're obstinate (Matt. 7:6)).

And let's not forget John 16:2, in which there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile (or as you put it, other nations):

They [the Jews, the Pharisees] will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

John 4:21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father.

John 4:23 But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.

There is no distinction between Jew and Gentile in any kind of fellowship. Is there anyone who does not fellowship? No, nearly everyone who is of sound mind associates with each other.
 
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dcyates

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And I'm okay with that. The Gospel is for everybody, God loves everyone.

Alright,so you think that God can change even though it is stated God does not change?
Even though God only chose one people,Israel and Jesus was only sent to Israel?

That statement God loves everyone contradicts half the Bible!

If God loves everyone then that means God has changed!

Malachi 3:6:For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
I'm with Crypto-Lutheran here. And like him, my heritage is also both Celtic and Germanic. Therefore, I'm not Hebrew. But I am Israel, in that through Christ I'm now a member of God's covenant community. As Paul puts it, I've been "grafted into" Israel (Rom 11.17-24).
According to Isaiah, the fact that Gentiles would come to worship YHWH was a significant sign to look for concerning the coming Messiah (Isa 56.6-8). Indeed, I would encourage you to read throughout Isaiah, and whenever you come to the word translated "nations" instead read "Gentiles" (because the Hebrew word used is goyim), then you get a far better picture of just how much God cares for all the peoples of the earth.
Btw, you're not one of these British-Israelites, are you?
 
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christian1488

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I'm with Crypto-Lutheran here. And like him, my heritage is also both Celtic and Germanic. Therefore, I'm not Hebrew. But I am Israel, in that through Christ I'm now a member of God's covenant community. As Paul puts it, I've been "grafted into" Israel (Rom 11.17-24).
According to Isaiah, the fact that Gentiles would come to worship YHWH was a significant sign to look for concerning the coming Messiah (Isa 56.6-8). Indeed, I would encourage you to read throughout Isaiah, and whenever you come to the word translated "nations" instead read "Gentiles" (because the Hebrew word used is goyim), then you get a far better picture of just how much God cares for all the peoples of the earth.
Btw, you're not one of these British-Israelites, are you?

Christian Identity,why,am I going to be attacked for my beliefs?
 
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christian1488

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The word GENTILE is not used in any of the ancient manuscripts, simply because there was no such word in the Hebrew or Greek languages. The word GENTILE as used in our modern Bible versions, including the "much loved" King James Version, in the Old Testament, always comes from the Hebrew word "goy," (singular) and "goyim", (plural). It is translated five different ways in the Old Testament, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible; "goy or goyim (singular or plural)", a foreign NATION hence GENTILEGENTILE; (2) HEATHEN; (3) NATION, and (4) PEOPLE, or ANOTHER."



The word "goy" is found in the Old Testament some 557 times. Thirty times it has been translated GENTILE; eleven times as people; 142 times as heathen; 373 times as NATION, and one time as ANOTHR. But not once as "non-Jew."

Let's examine a few specific verses of Scripture in the Old Testament, using the word GENTILE in place of the word NATION, as used by the translators. It should be remembered that the word "goy" or "goyim" was used in every instance in the original Hebrew.
1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham) a great GENTILE (nation.) Doesn't make much sense, does it? 2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . and thou (Abraham) shall be a father of many GENTILES (nations), neither shall thy name any more be called Abram; for a father of many GENTILES (nations) have I made thee."
3) - (Genesis 25:23) - "And the Lord said to her (Rebekah the wife of Isaac, the son of Abraham) two GENTILES (nations) are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from your bowels; the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
4) - (Genesis 48:19) - ". . . And his seed (Abraham's descendants) shall become a multitude of GENTILES (nations)."
<b> This kind of translation does not make much sense. But if you will look closely at your King James Version, you will find the translators used the Hebrew word "goy" as NATIONS in one place and as GENTILE in another. Could it be that they were influenced by the Church doctrine of their time, since the word GENTILE never appeared in earlier manuscripts? The King James Version, for instance was written because King James, disliked the footnotes of the Geneva Bible, which was the Bible of the Reformation fathers. Now for comparison let us use these same verses as the modern translations would have us use them, with "non-Jew" in the place of "tribe or nation." This should be a clear indication of how the modern translators, beginning with the King James Version, changed the meaning of these verses:
1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham a great non-Jew (nation)." 2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . And thou (Abraham) shall be father of many non-Jews . . . for a father of many non-Jews have I made thee." Let me remind you again, that the Hebrew word "goy or goyim", meaning "tribe or nation," is used every time in the original Hebrew.
3) - (Genesis 35:11) - "Two non-Jews are in thy (Rebekah's) womb."
4) - (Genesis 48:19) - "Thy seed (Abraham's) shall become a great multitude of non-Jews." (Of course this prediction is accurate.)
You can see, with a little effort, that the modern translators, using "goy" to mean GENTILE, with it's connotation of meaning "non-Jew" doesn't make very much sense. Yet this is the way most of our preachers translate it. </b>

from ''who are the gentiles?'' by Jack Mohr



Genesis 12:2:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Nation in that context means:1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465(in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

If you honestly think Goy or Goyim or gentile means non-Jew then that would mean that Abraham was to be made a non-Jew
 
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dcyates

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Christian Identity,why,am I going to be attacked for my beliefs?
I'm not going to attack you for your beliefs. I'll discuss them with you if you wish. If not, I won't. Either way, I'll always endeavour to be respectful, whether we agree or not.
What's "Christian Identity"?
 
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christian1488

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I'm not going to attack you for your beliefs. I'll discuss them with you if you wish. If not, I won't. Either way, I'll always endeavour to be respectful, whether we agree or not.
What's "Christian Identity"?

*We teach the Jews are not Israel as we feel they do NOT fulfill any of the covenants or promises i.e they are not a company of nations,the Jews never had a name change etc read marks of Israel - Jack Mohr ( google it)
See who fulfills those marks today,Europeans or Jews
*We teach the Jews are Edomites The JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA, edition of 1925, Vol. 5, page 41, states "Edom is in modern Jewry."
*Due to Biblical and archaeological evidence we believe that White Europeans are true Israel,having the name changed many times i.e migrating through the Caucasus after the Assyrian captivity under a different name,Khumri,Gamira,Angles,Saxon,Jutes etc etc
*We teach eating of swine(pork) is an unlean food,and is plain unhealthy
*We teach homosexuality and race mixing is a sin,that as a chosen people we are to keep pure
*Some in Christian Identity teach that satan is man's own lusts and desires
*Christian Identity is Christian
*We teach not all races came from Adam
*We teach Adam was a white man,Adam in the hebrew means 'adam aw-dam' to show blood (in the face), i.e. flush or turn rosy:--be (dyed, made) red (ruddy).
Only whites can show blood in the face and regarding other races not descending from Adam,in Genesis 4:14 who was Cain afraid of if only Adam and Eve were around?
Read Ezekiel 31


People have heard a lot of negative info on Christian Identity,but the fact is it is the Jews who spread that negative info around!!!!
People are a blind sheep who blindly watch tv which shows all that negative info,yet almost all tv networks are run by Jews!!!!(They can say what they want etc etc)
You just go around to the ADL websites and see why the Jews are attacking Christian groups? ( the irony been that half of those groups teach the Jews are not Israel)

for more info on Christian identity you can visit: israel elect
Kinsman redeemer ministries
Church of True Israel
Christian Identity Ministries
Sheldon Emry memorial library

A great booklet to read is heirs of the promise by sheldon emry

If you want I can send you links as a private message,if you feel you might want to look into this some more,as we teach everything modern ministers do NOT teach or are afraid to teach
What surprises people is we teach all the Bible instead of Just twisting scripture verses around like modern ministers do....
 
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dcyates

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The word GENTILE is not used in any of the ancient manuscripts, simply because there was no such word in the Hebrew or Greek languages. The word GENTILE as used in our modern Bible versions, including the "much loved" King James Version, in the Old Testament, always comes from the Hebrew word "goy," (singular) and "goyim", (plural). It is translated five different ways in the Old Testament, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible; "goy or goyim (singular or plural)", a foreign NATION hence GENTILEGENTILE; (2) HEATHEN; (3) NATION, and (4) PEOPLE, or ANOTHER."

The word "goy" is found in the Old Testament some 557 times. Thirty times it has been translated GENTILE; eleven times as people; 142 times as heathen; 373 times as NATION, and one time as ANOTHR. But not once as "non-Jew."
Naturally it wouldn't be translated into English as "non-Jew" since that's essentially what the word "Gentile" means. (As well, it wasn't until after the Babylonian exile that Hebrews started being called 'Jews', since they were the remnants of the former Judean kingdom, with those of the tribe of Judah being the most prominent of them. So, any OT writings that were composed prior to the Babylonian exile wouldn't contain references to 'Jews', period -- much less to "non-Jews.")
Let's examine a few specific verses of Scripture in the Old Testament, using the word GENTILE in place of the word NATION, as used by the translators. It should be remembered that the word "goy" or "goyim" was used in every instance in the original Hebrew.
1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham) a great GENTILE (nation.) Doesn't make much sense, does it? 2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . and thou (Abraham) shall be a father of many GENTILES (nations), neither shall thy name any more be called Abram; for a father of many GENTILES (nations) have I made thee."
3) - (Genesis 25:23) - "And the Lord said to her (Rebekah the wife of Isaac, the son of Abraham) two GENTILES (nations) are in your womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from your bowels; the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger."
4) - (Genesis 48:19) - ". . . And his seed (Abraham's descendants) shall become a multitude of GENTILES (nations)."
<b> This kind of translation does not make much sense. But if you will look closely at your King James Version, you will find the translators used the Hebrew word "goy" as NATIONS in one place and as GENTILE in another. Could it be that they were influenced by the Church doctrine of their time, since the word GENTILE never appeared in earlier manuscripts?
But, christian1488, this is like insisting that a word like "key" should everywhere and always be interpreted to indicate a literal "unlocking tool." This is, of course, fine for a sentence like: "I lost my key and now cannot open the door." And it's also not going to lead a reader too far astray with a sentence like: "What is the (unlocking tool) to this puzzle?" But when it comes to a sentence like: "To erase that paragraph just press the delete (unlocking tool)," it makes precious little sense. Or a sentence like: "What (unlocking tool) is that music played in?" Or: "They live in the Florida (unlocking tools)." Or: "So, what was the main (unlocking tool) point of that speech?"
Obviously a word's meaning is determined by its context. Therefore, in the OT, sometimes it's most approriate to translate the Hebrew term 'goyim' into English as 'nations', and in other instances it's more accurate to render it as 'Gentiles'.
The King James Version, for instance was written because King James, disliked the footnotes of the Geneva Bible, which was the Bible of the Reformation fathers. Now for comparison let us use these same verses as the modern translations would have us use them, with "non-Jew" in the place of "tribe or nation." This should be a clear indication of how the modern translators, beginning with the King James Version, changed the meaning of these verses:
1) - (Genesis 12:2) - "I will make of thee (Abraham a great non-Jew (nation)." 2) - (Genesis 17:4, 5) - ". . . And thou (Abraham) shall be father of many non-Jews . . . for a father of many non-Jews have I made thee." Let me remind you again, that the Hebrew word "goy or goyim", meaning "tribe or nation," is used every time in the original Hebrew.
3) - (Genesis 35:11) - "Two non-Jews are in thy (Rebekah's) womb."
4) - (Genesis 48:19) - "Thy seed (Abraham's) shall become a great multitude of non-Jews." (Of course this prediction is accurate.)
You can see, with a little effort, that the modern translators, using "goy" to mean GENTILE, with it's connotation of meaning "non-Jew" doesn't make very much sense. Yet this is the way most of our preachers translate it. </b>
This only shows that, just as certain English words can carry several -- sometimes very disparate -- meanings, so too are there certain Hebrew terms that can do the same. Would it be a legitimate interpretion to understand a sentence like, "To get to the store, just head down this road and then bear right," to then be the equivalent of, "To get to the store, just head down this road and then (any of various usually omnivorous mammals of the family Ursidae that have a shaggy coat and a short tail and walk with the entire lower surface of the foot touching the ground) right"?
from ''who are the gentiles?'' by Jack Mohr

Genesis 12:2:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Nation in that context means:1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465(in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

If you honestly think Goy or Goyim or gentile means non-Jew then that would mean that Abraham was to be made a non-Jew
I'm sorry, but as I've noted already, this is an entirely illegitimate method of translation which does actual harm to the text and thus to our understanding of it. I don't know who this Jack Mohr is, but based on what you've provided here, I wouldn't trust him to accurately translate John 11.35!
 
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christian1488

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Naturally it wouldn't be translated into English as "non-Jew" since that's essentially what the word "Gentile" means. (As well, it wasn't until after the Babylonian exile that Hebrews started being called 'Jews', since they were the remnants of the former Judean kingdom, with those of the tribe of Judah being the most prominent of them. So, any OT writings that were composed prior to the Babylonian exile wouldn't contain references to 'Jews', period -- much less to "non-Jews.")

But, christian1488, this is like insisting that a word like "key" should everywhere and always be interpreted to indicate a literal "unlocking tool." This is, of course, fine for a sentence like: "I lost my key and now cannot open the door." And it's also not going to lead a reader too far astray with a sentence like: "What is the (unlocking tool) to this puzzle?" But when it comes to a sentence like: "To erase that paragraph just press the delete (unlocking tool)," it makes precious little sense. Or a sentence like: "What (unlocking tool) is that music played in?" Or: "They live in the Florida (unlocking tools)." Or: "So, what was the main (unlocking tool) point of that speech?"
Obviously a word's meaning is determined by its context. Therefore, in the OT, sometimes it's most approriate to translate the Hebrew term 'goyim' into English as 'nations', and in other instances it's more accurate to render it as 'Gentiles'.

This only shows that, just as certain English words can carry several -- sometimes very disparate -- meanings, so too are there certain Hebrew terms that can do the same. Would it be a legitimate interpretion to understand a sentence like, "To get to the store, just head down this road and then bear right," to then be the equivalent of, "To get to the store, just head down this road and then (any of various usually omnivorous mammals of the family Ursidae that have a shaggy coat and a short tail and walk with the entire lower surface of the foot touching the ground) right"?

I'm sorry, but as I've noted already, this is an entirely illegitimate method of translation which does actual harm to the text and thus to our understanding of it. I don't know who this Jack Mohr is, but based on what you've provided here, I wouldn't trust him to accurately translate John 11.35!


This if from strong's exhaustive concordance,they have all the definitions of the words,hebrew for OT and Greek for NT
That IS the best way to study the Bible,to understand what the word's mean!!!!

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon - Strong's exhaustive concordance

Using Strong's is the BEST way of studying the Bible,at this point I wouldn't trust anyone on this forum to translate any part of scripture because they don't use a Strong's concordance to get word meanings to place in context...
The OT was in hebrew? so would it not be right to use hebrew definitions???
INSTEAD of taking it for face value so it contradicts other parts of scripture!


Genesis 12:2:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

nation in Genesis 12:2 DOES mean gentile!

1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

So it could Just as easily be read ''
nd I will make of thee a great gentile,''

This only shows that, just as certain English words can carry several -- sometimes very disparate -- meanings,

This shows why you should you use a strong's concordance!!!

Naturally it wouldn't be translated into English as "non-Jew" since that's essentially what the word "Gentile" means.

Gentile DOES not mean non-Jew!!!!!

Your using the wrong meaing,the media meaning that says all non-Jews are gentiles,your not using the correct meanings

It's like trying to find what a word means without using a dictionary!!!
 
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dcyates

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This if from strong's exhaustive concordance,they have all the definitions of the words,hebrew for OT and Greek for NT
That IS the best way to study the Bible,to understand what the word's mean!!!!

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon - Strong's exhaustive concordance

Using Strong's is the BEST way of studying the Bible,at this point I wouldn't trust anyone on this forum to translate any part of scripture because they don't use a Strong's concordance to get word meanings to place in context...
The OT was in hebrew? so would it not be right to use hebrew definitions???
INSTEAD of taking it for face value so it contradicts other parts of scripture!
Using Strong's can be helpful to the layman, but your devotion to it is misplaced (e.g. James Strong relied on Classical Attic definitions for Greek terms, not Koine which is the Greek of the NT). There isn't a Bible scholar alive who would consult the back of Strong's Concordance for the meanings of Hebrew or Greek words. Strong didn't even make any distinctions between Classical Hebrew and Aramaic. Brown-Driver-Briggs is far better for Hebrew. Better yet would be the two-volume Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. And best of all is the 11-vol Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.

Genesis 12:2:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

nation in Genesis 12:2 DOES mean gentile!
No, it doesn't, 1488. Such an understanding makes no sense at all, since Abraham was, in effect, the very first Hebrew, why would one of God's covenant promises to him be that he was going to make him a Gentile?!?

christian1488 said:
1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.
christian1488 said:
So it could Just as easily be read ''nd I will make of thee a great gentile,''
dcyates said:
This only shows that, just as certain English words can carry several -- sometimes very disparate -- meanings,
christian1488 said:
This shows why you should you use a strong's concordance!!!
See above.
dcyates said:
Naturally it wouldn't be translated into English as "non-Jew" since that's essentially what the word "Gentile" means.
christian1488 said:
Gentile DOES not mean non-Jew!!!!!

Your using the wrong meaing,the media meaning that says all non-Jews are gentiles,your not using the correct meanings

It's like trying to find what a word means without using a dictionary!!!
Okay, here's the Webster's Dictionary definition of the term 'Gentile': "a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith" or "of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary; 511). How's that?
 
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christian1488

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Using Strong's can be helpful to the layman, but your devotion to it is misplaced (e.g. James Strong relied on Classical Attic definitions for Greek terms, not Koine which is the Greek of the NT). There isn't a Bible scholar alive who would consult the back of Strong's Concordance for the meanings of Hebrew or Greek words. Strong didn't even make any distinctions between Classical Hebrew and Aramaic. Brown-Driver-Briggs is far better for Hebrew. Better yet would be the two-volume Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament. And best of all is the 11-vol Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament.


No, it doesn't, 1488. Such an understanding makes no sense at all, since Abraham was, in effect, the very first Hebrew, why would one of God's covenant promises to him be that he was going to make him a Gentile?!?



See above.


Okay, here's the Webster's Dictionary definition of the term 'Gentile': "a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith" or "of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary; 511). How's that?



No, it doesn't, 1488. Such an understanding makes no sense at all, since Abraham was, in effect, the very first Hebrew, why would one of God's covenant promises to him be that he was going to make him a Gentile?!?

Genesis 12:2 :And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

''Nation'' does mean in that verse:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

It depends on the context,you can't say ''
And I will make of thee a great GENTILE''
Because that would not make sense!
So you have to use a word that makes sense,and other meanings are heathen, nation, people.

Genesis 18:18 :
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

''nation'' again means:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

They had to find the word that connected with the context!

Genesis 25:23:
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Nations in that verse does mean:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

They had to use the context,they couldn't very well say ''
Two GENTILES are in thy womb''

They found a word that connected and used it--Use a strong's concordance,it does help!


I'll be giving a few examples of how absurd the word 'gentile' can be. In fact, I'll say that the word 'gentile' shouldn't even be in the Bible. This is because the word is neither Hebrew or Greek, but rather from the Latin word 'gentilis', which results in the English transliterated word 'gentile'. The etymology of this word is a derivative of the Latin word 'gens', which meant nation or race. 'Gentilis' was used to describe any person who was not a Roman citizen and probably used in a derogatory manner. Thus begins the strained secular principle of something not belonging to the original i.e. someone from another country, being incorporated into biblical language. The word 'gentile' has no etymology in Hebrew or Greek and therefore it is arbitrarily inserted into the English translations.

- quote from Pastor Mark Downey


Okay, here's the Webster's Dictionary definition of the term 'Gentile': "a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith" or "of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary; 511). How's that?

Here is the meaning from webster's 1828:

Gentile


n. [L. gentilis; from L. gens, nation, race; applied to pagans.] In the scriptures, a pagan; a worshipper of false gods; any person not a Jew or a christian; a heathen. The Hebrews included in the term goim or nations, all the tribes of men who had not received the true faith,and were not circumcised. The christians translated goim by the L. gentes, and imitated the Jews in giving the name gentiles to all nations who were not Jews nor christians. In civil affairs, the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans.

Gentile, a. Pertaining to pagans or heathens.


Hows's that????
 
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dcyates

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dcyates: "No, it doesn't, 1488. Such an understanding makes no sense at all, since Abraham was, in effect, the very first Hebrew, why would one of God's covenant promises to him be that he was going to make him a Gentile?!?"
Genesis 12:2 :And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

''Nation'' does mean in that verse:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

It depends on the context,you can't say ''And I will make of thee a great GENTILE''
Because that would not make sense!
So you have to use a word that makes sense,and other meanings are heathen, nation, people.

Genesis 18:18 :Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?

''nation'' again means:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

They had to find the word that connected with the context!
Okay, so now you ARE saying that the proper translation should be "nation"?!? Because before you were arguing that it should rendered as "Gentile."
Genesis 25:23:
And the LORD said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.

Nations in that verse does mean:Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

They had to use the context,they couldn't very well say ''Two GENTILES are in thy womb''

They found a word that connected and used it--Use a strong's concordance,it does help!
You've lost me. I no longer know what it is you're trying to say. Yes, a single word can have several different meanings. But not all at once! When somebody says something like, "I don't understand what you're driving at" (and I don't think I do), obviously by their use of the term "driving" they're not saying that they fail to comprehend what you're saying AND to use it as a reference for hitting a golf ball AND as a reference to navigating a motor vehicle AND to force into or from a particular act or state AND to move along or advance quickly as if pushed by an impelling force AND astrong organized effort to accomplish a purpose AND a massive, sustained military offensive AND astrong motivating tendency or instinct related to self-preservation, reproduction, or aggression that prompts activity toward a particular end AND adevice that reads data from and often writes data onto a storage medium, etc.

I'll be giving a few examples of how absurd the word 'gentile' can be. In fact, I'll say that the word 'gentile' shouldn't even be in the Bible. This is because the word is neither Hebrew or Greek, but rather from the Latin word 'gentilis', which results in the English transliterated word 'gentile'. The etymology of this word is a derivative of the Latin word 'gens', which meant nation or race. 'Gentilis' was used to describe any person who was not a Roman citizen and probably used in a derogatory manner. Thus begins the strained secular principle of something not belonging to the original i.e. someone from another country, being incorporated into biblical language. The word 'gentile' has no etymology in Hebrew or Greek and therefore it is arbitrarily inserted into the English translations.

- quote from Pastor Mark Downey
My goodness, if we were to restrict our Bible translation only to those words that are derived from ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek, we wouldn't even have an English Bible. There are tons of words that are used in Scripture that are derived from Latin! Words like "glory," "salvation," "redemption," "disciple," "sanctification," "spirit," "creation," "saint," "prayer," I could go on and on. Should we get rid of all those words as well?

dcyates: "Okay, here's the Webster's Dictionary definition of the term 'Gentile':
"a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith" or "of or relating to the nations at large as distinguished from the Jews" (Webster's Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary; 511). How's that?"
1488: "Here is the meaning from webster's 1828:
Gentile

n. [L. gentilis; from L. gens, nation, race; applied to pagans.] In the scriptures, a pagan; a worshipper of false gods; any person not a Jew or a christian; a heathen. The Hebrews included in the term goim or nations, all the tribes of men who had not received the true faith,and were not circumcised. The christians translated goim by the L. gentes, and imitated the Jews in giving the name gentiles to all nations who were not Jews nor christians. In civil affairs, the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans.

Gentile, a. Pertaining to pagans or heathens.

Hows's that????
Do you mean to tell me that you're relying on a dictionary definition from 1828?!? Why would you do that? (Other than that this particular dictionary from nearly 200 years ago gives you a definition closer to what you're looking for.)
 
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christian1488

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Okay, so now you ARE saying that the proper translation should be "nation"?!? Because before you were arguing that it should rendered as "Gentile."

You've lost me. I no longer know what it is you're trying to say. Yes, a single word can have several different meanings. But not all at once! When somebody says something like, "I don't understand what you're driving at" (and I don't think I do), obviously by their use of the term "driving" they're not saying that they fail to comprehend what you're saying AND to use it as a reference for hitting a golf ball AND as a reference to navigating a motor vehicle AND to force into or from a particular act or state AND to move along or advance quickly as if pushed by an impelling force AND astrong organized effort to accomplish a purpose AND a massive, sustained military offensive AND astrong motivating tendency or instinct related to self-preservation, reproduction, or aggression that prompts activity toward a particular end AND adevice that reads data from and often writes data onto a storage medium, etc.


My goodness, if we were to restrict our Bible translation only to those words that are derived from ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek, we wouldn't even have an English Bible. There are tons of words that are used in Scripture that are derived from Latin! Words like "glory," "salvation," "redemption," "disciple," "sanctification," "spirit," "creation," "saint," "prayer," I could go on and on. Should we get rid of all those words as well?


Do you mean to tell me that you're relying on a dictionary definition from 1828?!? Why would you do that? (Other than that this particular dictionary from nearly 200 years ago gives you a definition closer to what you're looking for.)

Okay, so now you ARE saying that the proper translation should be "nation"?!? Because before you were arguing that it should rendered as "Gentile."

Nations Means Gentile in the Hebrew!
1471 gowy go'-ee rarely (shortened) goy {go'-ee}; apparently from the same root as 1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence, a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts:--Gentile, heathen, nation, people.

One word can carry many meanings,yet various meanings,one of the meanings was nation so the translators connected the best word instead of using Gentile which would not have made sense but would also be what nation means or is defined as!


My goodness, if we were to restrict our Bible translation only to those words that are derived from ancient Hebrew and Koine Greek, we wouldn't even have an English Bible. There are tons of words that are used in Scripture that are derived from Latin! Words like "glory," "salvation," "redemption," "disciple," "sanctification," "spirit," "creation," "saint," "prayer," I could go on and on. Should we get rid of all those words as well?

oh yeah really,lucifer is a latin word yet it does not even mean satan or a fallen angel!!!!!

Do you mean to tell me that you're relying on a dictionary definition from 1828?!? Why would you do that? (Other than that this particular dictionary from nearly 200 years ago gives you a definition closer to what you're looking for.)

The newer versions have been edited and revised many times as well as corrupted,the very best are the 1828 Websters,the newer editions are too modern meaning,more likely too far from fact as opposed to the elder edition.

"a person of a non-Jewish nation or of non-Jewish faith"


Your translation stated that,while disregarding the original translation

from L. gens, nation, race a heathen. the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans. - some 1828 meanings

Jesus and the Apostles were gentiles because they were not Romans but Paul was not a gentile because he was a Roman--(Acts 22:25-29)
Because it also meant people who were not Roman citizens!


n. [L. gentilis; from L. gens, nation, race; applied to pagans.] In the scriptures, a pagan; a worshipper of false gods; any person not a Jew or a christian; a heathen. The Hebrews included in the term goim or nations, all the tribes of men who had not received the true faith,and were not circumcised. The christians translated goim by the L. gentes, and imitated the Jews in giving the name gentiles to all nations who were not Jews nor christians. In civil affairs, the denomination was given to all nations who were not Romans.
 
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