Whirlwind marriage now separated

[moogie]

hi,

new here, looking for advice. Dont know what to do. Angishing over this off and on for awhile.

here's the situation:

Married after a couple of months of dating. her 3rd my first (her ex's cheated). she is christian i'm non practicing catholic. we have great chemistry get along very well, but... i have this feeling that she just wants to be supported. we are both 48 and professional, make similar salary, she does not have any assets i have some in the mid six figures.

why do i think this?
her reply to my request to be a partner in household expenses was "am i your wife or roommate?"
my belief that premarital assets are separate, her insistence that we share everything or getting upset when i mentioned "my" classic car not 'our". reminds me of the line from Hamlet "The lady doth protest too much, methinks", when she says she does not want my house etc...

we've been separated about 10 months, she delayed signing settlement agreement (would not agree to return furnishings i brought in ((even though i payed a couple of grand to get her stuff out of storage before auction)) telling me she had been praying we would get back together. we dated a bit, chemistry still there.

so we get along great, better than i have with anyone else and spent the week of new years together and had a great time.

when i bring up a post nuptial agreement to ease my mind and concerns she says no. she kinda sort of came around to a five year agreement.

my stance is it would take finances out of the equation, ease my concern over the rush to marry.
we should have separate finances and pool common finances.


like i said, she's be praying (pslams (?) to restore marriage), trying to save marriage

your thoughts on prenups, post nups, finance in marriage.

 

[All4Christ]

Personally I don't like pre-nups, based on the idea that it is protecting you from divorce, which I don't see as an option for me. I did come into our marriage with more money, and he came in with more debt. I owned a house and he didn't. However, we decided to share the assets. Technically the house is in my name, but we will share the money once we sell it (it will go in the joint account), and will buy the next house in both of our names.

We kept a personal bank account for each, and created a joint account. Most of our money goes into the joint account, but we divy out some into our personal accounts for us to use in whatever way we want. We can use the personal account right away, save it, or do whatever we want.

My grandpa had pre-nup agreements and divorced twice. Did the apparent lack of trust contribute to the rough marriage? I honestly don't know. I didn't want to do that though. It's essentially like planning for the possibility of divorce.

Three months certainly is fast for getting married. Hopefully you can continue to get to know each other over time.

I wish you the best of luck! God be with you!

 

[pdudgeon]

if you haven't already, please consider taking Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace course.
one of the lessons in the course is setting up a monthly budget, and that lesson alone is worth it's weight in gold, because it teaches you how to view the expenses that come up unexpectedly--the kind that can make or break a marriage.
and yes, they also deal with pre-nups, post nups, etc.
It's a great feeling to be in charge of your money instead of being a slave to the bill collectors!

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I would ask how old are you both? From what your saying it sounds like your maybe 30/40s? First thing I would say is never marry unequally yolked. Even if your different denominations as they still have diffrences.

why do i think this?
her reply to my request to be a partner in household expenses was "am i your wife or roommate?"
my belief that premarital assets are separate, her insistence that we share everything or getting upset when i mentioned "my" classic car not 'our". reminds me of the line from Hamlet "The lady doth protest too much, methinks", when she says she does not want my house etc...

when i bring up a post nuptial agreement to ease my mind and concerns she says no. she kinda sort of came around to a five year agreement.

my stance is it would take finances out of the equation, ease my concern over the rush to marry.
we should have separate finances and pool common finances.

Well I do understand your concerns though since you said you would be her third marriage. So I can understand a prenup though I honestly would never use one because I hate them. But like I said if your her third then it would make one wonder why shes been divorced twice. Has she told you why her other marriage ended? That would change alot of answers we could give you. Because if there are red flags then you know to not even marry her. Actually regardless of that I wouldn't marry her anyways. Even if thinks seemed perfect.

Because after your first divorce theres a 40%-60% change the second one will end too. So because your her third one, the chances are at 67%-80%. In other words RUN AWAY. Even if she did nothing wrong in previous marriages, divorce can change people and their baggage tends to ruin the next marriage. And while normally I would say prenups are bad and marriage means "everything is now ours, not mine/yours", in this case though it is weird she in asking everything be "ours" when shes been married 2 times, she should realize whoeever she is with will be suspicious.

I'd also point out the fact shes a christian but this is her third marriage shows me her views on divorce. You did say her exs cheated but how are you to really know. Maybe she cheated or maybe she was mean to them so they looked for love elsewhere. It doesn't mean chat of course but I've seen women before who say "My ex cheated". A friend of my parents got married for her 5th (or 6th?) time now. She says all her exs cheated. I find that a bit unbelievable. 6 marriages means theres also something you must be doing wrong too.

In short, find someone else. Because it seems like there are very VERY good odds this won't end well for you. And anyways, do you really want to get hurt and try to find someone whos going to be like "Oh, you were married before? No thanks!". It wouldn't be fair to you.

 

[All4Christ]

I would ask how old are you both? From what your saying it sounds like your maybe 30/40s? First thing I would say is never marry unequally yolked. Even if your different denominations as they still have diffrences.






Well I do understand your concerns though since you said you would be her third marriage. So I can understand a prenup though I honestly would never use one because I hate them. But like I said if your her third then it would make one wonder why shes been divorced twice. Has she told you why her other marriage ended? That would change alot of answers we could give you. Because if there are red flags then you know to not even marry her. Actually regardless of that I wouldn't marry her anyways. Even if thinks seemed perfect.

Because after your first divorce theres a 40%-60% change the second one will end too. So because your her third one, the chances are at 67%-80%. In other words RUN AWAY. Even if she did nothing wrong in previous marriages, divorce can change people and their baggage tends to ruin the next marriage. And while normally I would say prenups are bad and marriage means "everything is now ours, not mine/yours", in this case though it is weird she in asking everything be "ours" when shes been married 2 times, she should realize whoeever she is with will be suspicious.

I'd also point out the fact shes a christian but this is her third marriage shows me her views on divorce. You did say her exs cheated but how are you to really know. Maybe she cheated or maybe she was mean to them so they looked for love elsewhere. It doesn't mean chat of course but I've seen women before who say "My ex cheated". A friend of my parents got married for her 5th (or 6th?) time now. She says all her exs cheated. I find that a bit unbelievable. 6 marriages means theres also something you must be doing wrong too.

In short, find someone else. Because it seems like there are very VERY good odds this won't end well for you. And anyways, do you really want to get hurt and try to find someone whos going to be like "Oh, you were married before? No thanks!". It wouldn't be fair to you.

I think he said he already is married.

 

[lambkisses]

hi,

new here, looking for advice. Dont know what to do. Angishing over this off and on for awhile.

here's the situation:

Married after a couple of months of dating. her 3rd my first (her ex's cheated). she is christian i'm non practicing catholic. we have great chemistry get along very well, but... i have this feeling that she just wants to be supported. we are both 48 and professional, make similar salary, she does not have any assets i have some in the mid six figures.

why do i think this?
her reply to my request to be a partner in household expenses was "am i your wife or roommate?"
my belief that premarital assets are separate, her insistence that we share everything or getting upset when i mentioned "my" classic car not 'our". reminds me of the line from Hamlet "The lady doth protest too much, methinks", when she says she does not want my house etc...

we've been separated about 10 months, she delayed signing settlement agreement (would not agree to return furnishings i brought in ((even though i payed a couple of grand to get her stuff out of storage before auction)) telling me she had been praying we would get back together. we dated a bit, chemistry still there.

so we get along great, better than i have with anyone else and spent the week of new years together and had a great time.

when i bring up a post nuptial agreement to ease my mind and concerns she says no. she kinda sort of came around to a five year agreement.

my stance is it would take finances out of the equation, ease my concern over the rush to marry.
we should have separate finances and pool common finances.


like i said, she's be praying (pslams (?) to restore marriage), trying to save marriage

your thoughts on prenups, post nups, finance in marriage.

Honestly. Depends on what state you live in. Even in most community property states premarital assets so not become community assets, in the eyes of the secular judicial system at least.

 

[akmom]

At age 48, with both of you established in your careers and having a long history of relationships, I don't think you're going to be building your lives together the same way a young couple is. So making everything a joint asset makes less sense.

Although not the same scenario, I am reminded of a couple I knew who married in their 70s. They were both widowed before that, having married young and had children with their previous spouses, and having enjoyed long and happy first marriages prior to widowhood. Naturally, they chose to share their assets and decline prenups, as this was their philosophies in life and their approach to marriage in the past, which worked well for them. That was all fine until the husband died and his elderly second wife inherited everything... even stuff that belonged to his first wife and that she had intended to pass down to their children. Instead, it went to the second wife, who passed it onto her OWN children instead. This included real estate that had long been in the family. Very sad. Her children, who had nothing to do with these assets just ten years ago, and whose parents had no role in acquiring them, essentially ended up with all the inheritance that would otherwise have gone to the first couple's children. I don't know if you or her have any children, but it just goes to show how marriage shouldn't necessarily entitle a person to everything that belongs to their spouse. They should be entitled to what their spouse acquired while they were together and supporting each other in all the ways that couples do. I question why she has any interest in your assets prior to the marriage, as marriage should be about love and companionship. It would definitely raise red flags for me that she won't accept a postnup. It doesn't sound like she is doing it on principle (as in, refusing to plan to fail), but rather to gain from the inequity.

 

[evoeth]

I second akmom.

By 48 you are at point in your life where you likely have significant prior financial commitments (children, alimony, something). It's sad that you're just learning this about her now, since civil marriage is a purely financial agreement; the legal code does not require love or religion with respect to marriage. It deals exclusively with ownership, inheritance, child support, alimony, joint debts/assets etc.

These agreements and rights are standardized in marriage. You are 48 and both of you have significant financial/familial histories.

My point being that the standard, off-the-shelf marriage might not be right for you and you should *definitely* talk about a prenup/postnup.

 

[lambkisses]

I second akmom.

By 48 you are at point in your life where you likely have significant prior financial commitments (children, alimony, something). It's sad that you're just learning this about her now, since civil marriage is a purely financial agreement; the legal code does not require love or religion with respect to marriage. It deals exclusively with ownership, inheritance, child support, alimony, joint debts/assets etc.

These agreements and rights are standardized in marriage. You are 48 and both of you have significant financial/familial histories.

My point being that the standard, off-the-shelf marriage might not be right for you and you should *definitely* talk about a prenup/postnup.

He may not need a post nup.again depending on the state, if his assets are in his name before the marriage they will remain his despite the marriage regardless of what the wife may say since you are correct that civil marriage is a financial agreement for jointly acquired assets. Unless he his assets are something like a business which would grow through a marriage you don't really need a postnup to protect a classic car or paid off house.

 

[All4Christ]

At age 48, with both of you established in your careers and having a long history of relationships, I don't think you're going to be building your lives together the same way a young couple is. So making everything a joint asset makes less sense.

Although not the same scenario, I am reminded of a couple I knew who married in their 70s. They were both widowed before that, having married young and had children with their previous spouses, and having enjoyed long and happy first marriages prior to widowhood. Naturally, they chose to share their assets and decline prenups, as this was their philosophies in life and their approach to marriage in the past, which worked well for them. That was all fine until the husband died and his elderly second wife inherited everything... even stuff that belonged to his first wife and that she had intended to pass down to their children. Instead, it went to the second wife, who passed it onto her OWN children instead. This included real estate that had long been in the family. Very sad. Her children, who had nothing to do with these assets just ten years ago, and whose parents had no role in acquiring them, essentially ended up with all the inheritance that would otherwise have gone to the first couple's children. I don't know if you or her have any children, but it just goes to show how marriage shouldn't necessarily entitle a person to everything that belongs to their spouse. They should be entitled to what their spouse acquired while they were together and supporting each other in all the ways that couples do. I question why she has any interest in your assets prior to the marriage, as marriage should be about love and companionship. It would definitely raise red flags for me that she won't accept a postnup. It doesn't sound like she is doing it on principle (as in, refusing to plan to fail), but rather to gain from the inequity.

A lot of that could be a taken care of through a will.

 

[evoeth]

Maybe you should talk to a lawyer about how pre marriage assets are treated legally.

 

[akmom]

Yes, the division of those assets in a divorce or death is relatively predictable, but I think he is worried about the fate of those assets IN the marriage. If she wants added to the title for his car, for instance, she gains the ability to sell it or use it as collateral for debt. If she starts sharing possession of much of his net worth, then he could conceivably lose a lot and/or assume a lot of debt.

 

[moogie]

i am concerned about losing half of everything, having anything go to her kids.

the paperwork has been filed, its been about a year. she wouldnt sign the settlement agreement (didnt want to return my furnishings) (i moved out, got my own place, paid her rent thru our lease term). her reply as to not signing was her hope i would come back as she reached out to me over time. we eventually spoke, saw each other and spent some time together.
(for all its worth, she does seem really happy when we are together but i cant shake a nagging feeling).

her constant "husbands must support their wife", "share everything", like she may be setting up a "i dont want to work situation". thats here i'm torn, she works full time and picks up part time gigs all week. I get the "support wife" thing, and if we had kids i would not want her to work.

than i think about her driving around in a bmw drop top (spending $) and me driving a 10 year old camaro (saving nickles to get the first house) in our younger days years and years before we meet and i think why put you on the deed. her counter point is "i paid for my masters degree" while you paid for a house - (but "i cant take that degree from you" falls on deaf ears).

ugh..

 

[mkgal1]

Is your state a community property state?

I think you have a valid concern about her motives. The only way I know that would ease your concerns (as you've written) is to take the money out of the equation. If she's truly interested in healing your relationship, she'd be willing to build trust between you two. It's tricky, though, that you're already separated. Do you have a good attorney?

 

[lambkisses]

i am concerned about losing half of everything, having anything go to her kids.

the paperwork has been filed, its been about a year. she wouldnt sign the settlement agreement (didnt want to return my furnishings) (i moved out, got my own place, paid her rent thru our lease term). her reply as to not signing was her hope i would come back as she reached out to me over time. we eventually spoke, saw each other and spent some time together.
(for all its worth, she does seem really happy when we are together but i cant shake a nagging feeling).

her constant "husbands must support their wife", "share everything", like she may be setting up a "i dont want to work situation". thats here i'm torn, she works full time and picks up part time gigs all week. I get the "support wife" thing, and if we had kids i would not want her to work.

than i think about her driving around in a bmw drop top (spending $) and me driving a 10 year old camaro (saving nickles to get the first house) in our younger days years and years before we meet and i think why put you on the deed. her counter point is "i paid for my masters degree" while you paid for a house - (but "i cant take that degree from you" falls on deaf ears).

ugh..

Ask her how does he master degree contribute to the family if you are supposed to support her.

 

[mkgal1]

I wanted to add this article to this thread. You keep mentioning that the two of you "still have chemistry". It's not that I'm completely cynical---but it's good to ask for evidence that you certainly *can* trust her love. Somethings really only come over time + evidence.

Healing and Hope: RETHINKING CHARM