Which part of us the soul is?

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

John 6:51 is where Jesus says He is the bread of life, and if anyone eats of this bread - he will live forever.

Sure, it may sound figurative, but elsewhere - "my flesh is REAL food, and my blood is REAL drink"

The immortality of the soul, that I believe in, occurs prior to the BODY being clothed upon with immortality.

Tone · Feb 15, 2020

Tra Phull said:
You quote from Paul, and then ask when was John seeing into...

I don't believe they are mutually exclusive. I was referring back to the vision of John that you brought up, while quoting some of "Paul's" writing. I think that timing is a great part of attempting to grasp what is revealed about such topics.

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

Timing is a great part of trying to understand these things.

I do not have a "systematic theology" about our names being written in the Book of Life.

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

"Rejoice, rather, that your names are written in the book of life".
At one point in time, Jesus said that to disciples returning from a mission, and at that point, apparently, Judas Iscariot was among those spoken to. Probably few right now consider Judas IN THE BOOK - there are passages about names being BLOTTED OUT of the book.

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

In any case, at some point, we become a believer.

Whether everyone's name is written in the book, and they are blotted out if they die without accepting Him - I don't know.

What matters is what we believe NOW,and persist in believing. Predestination, as I understand it, is based on God's FOREKNOWLEDGE of who believes, and will persist in believing.

The SOUL of the believer is rendered immortal (IMO) when we become a believer. Barring us choosing to no longer be a believer, we are in that state of "even though he die, he will live forever" from that point on.

RIGHT NOW is all we got, in one sense. Yesterday, I believed and confessed, today I did also, I intend to do so tomorrow also, but tomorrow is not here yet.

Chris35 · Feb 15, 2020

For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow;

Probably a good starting point...

What is the flesh?
The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

A mind ruled by the flesh is hostile towards God. Anything that is in you, that comes from the flesh is against God.

What is the spirit?
So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.

The spirit, is the oppisite to the flesh, it wishes to do God's will, and has no desire to do the things of the flesh.

What is the soul?
Probably the middle ground from my understanding. We are not forced to submit to the flesh, nor are we forced to submit to the spirit.

Although the flesh and spirit are at war with eachother and probably where thoughts of the flesh, and thoughts from the spirit come from.

The soul must be something in between which can choose, and if it can choose, then its not forced by either the mind or the spirit unless we let it.

Im not 100% sure though, however the word of God is the best place to work it out, so you can see what comes from the flesh, and what comes from the spirit.

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, but maybe flesh and bone can - there is obviously a difference between glorified bodies and this one I have right now.

Fine. I was compelled to post and counter the idea of Soul Sleep - iow - to show that the soul of a believer is immortal and not unconscious until the last day as Soul Sleepers seem to think.

It is difficult to "prove" it, just like it is difficult to "prove" the Trinity - even here at CF, where belief in Nicene Creed and its Trinitarian dogma is the board's LITMUS TEST for who be a Christian and who be hairy-tick, it is still difficult to "prove" things with words on a messageboard like "Jesus rose from the dead" - "God is a Trinity" - "the soul of a believer is immortal"

But we can try.

Tra Phull · Feb 15, 2020

Good points, Chris35

Tone · Feb 15, 2020

Some things seem to be more about toeing the party line rather than being salvific issues.

Original Happy Camper · Feb 16, 2020

Tra Phull said:
If flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom, but maybe flesh and bone can - there is obviously a difference between glorified bodies and this one I have right now.

Fine. I was compelled to post and counter the idea of Soul Sleep - iow - to show that the soul of a believer is immortal and not unconscious until the last day as Soul Sleepers seem to think.

It is difficult to "prove" it, just like it is difficult to "prove" the Trinity - even here at CF, where belief in Nicene Creed and its Trinitarian dogma is the board's LITMUS TEST for who be a Christian and who be hairy-tick, it is still difficult to "prove" things with words on a messageboard like "Jesus rose from the dead" - "God is a Trinity" - "the soul of a believer is immortal"

But we can try.

Is the soul immortal?
The Bible uses the word “soul” approximately 1600 times and never once uses the expression “immortal soul”.

The word mortal means subject to death. The word immortal means not subject to death. The Bible expressly states “The soul that sinneth it shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4). Jesus declared that both the body and soul could be destroyed in hell (Matthew 10-28).

Immortality is an attribute of Divinity. Only God is naturally immortal (1 Timothy 6:15-16). Satan’s first lie in the Garden of Eden was regarding death. The evil one stated that the effect of disobedience was not death but life. He said, “You shall not surely die” (Genesis 3:4).

God’s word says, “The wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23). Death is the absence of life. Sin brings forth not eternal life in hell, but total, absolute, banishment from the presence of God by annihilation.

The Bible is clear. Man is mortal (Job 4:17). We seek for immortality (Romans 2:7). The righteous receive immortality as a gift from our Lord at His Second Coming (1 Corinthians 15:51-54). Sinners receive their eternal reward as well. Sin when it is finished, bringeth forth death (James 1:15). The choice then is between eternal life and eternal death.

Is the soul immortal? - Powered by Kayako Resolve Help Desk Software

Original Happy Camper · Feb 16, 2020

Tra Phull said:
The SOUL of the believer is rendered immortal (IMO) when we become a believer. Barring us choosing to no longer be a believer, we are in that state of "even though he die, he will live forever" from that point on.

If as you say the soul is immortal before death then what is the point of these verses in the Bible

"the judgment was set, and the books were opened." Daniel 7:9, 10, R.V.

"Judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel?" 1 Peter 4:17.

"For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil." Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Says the Saviour: "By thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." Ecclesiastes 12:14; Matthew 12:36, 37. The secret purposes and motives appear in the unerring register; for God "will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts." I Corinthians 4:5. "Behold, it is written before Me, . . . your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord." Isaiah 65:6, 7.

Facing Life's Record

Andrewn · Feb 16, 2020

Tra Phull said:
Is where I would start in showing that the soul of a BELIEVER is immortal

Tra Phull said:
I am not trying to show what happens "when EVERYBODY dies" - I am focusing on BELIEVERS

Tra Phull said:
The SOUL of the believer is rendered immortal (IMO) when we become a believer.

In "The rich man and Lazarus" the rich man was also conscious. Thus souls are conscious in Hades. Many of the Lord's descriptions of Gehenna also show that souls there are conscious.

Original Happy Camper · Feb 16, 2020

Andrewn said:
In "The rich man and Lazarus" the rich man was also conscious.

In Luke 16:19-31, Jesus tells a parable that has led to a lot of controversy. Some people believe that the teaching—a story about a rich man and a beggar who die and go to hell and heaven—is to be taken literally, and gives proof that God’s people go to heaven immediately after they die. However, others show us that the language and setting of the story are figurative. Most scenes in the parable contradict the teachings of Scriptures, indicating that Jesus was telling the story to convey a larger truth

Jesus told this story as a sharp rebuke to the Jewish religious leaders. In the parable, the rich man represents the Jewish nation, and the poor man represents the Gentiles.
.....
Throughout history, God had named the Israelite people His own. The nation had been highly favored by God as His children, and as the recipients of His truth.

The Jews were called to use the truth God gave them to lead other nations to God. For this reason, God placed them at the crossroads between the great nations and trade routes of that time.

However, instead of fulfilling their mission, the Jews had become self-centered, claiming salvation only for themselves. While priding themselves in their exclusivity, they had nevertheless embraced heathen teachings, including lies regarding the afterlife, but always with the provision that their heritage would get them into heaven.

In His story about Lazarus the beggar, Jesus speaks against the hypocrisy of these views.

The Parable of Lazarus

Acts 10:28
And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Andrewn · Feb 16, 2020

I don't enjoy discussing soul consciousness bec I consider it so basic in Christianity that opposing it is a waste of time. However, let's forget about the word "soul."

I will ask all the SDA's here what the "spirit" is and what does it mean for the spirit to return to God. They certainly have no qualms about this.

Nancy Hale · Feb 16, 2020

magiani said:
I wonder which part of us the soul is.

I believe we have many parts. Everyone has ego(or free will), child, critics and there are also other parts of us and we have our experiences during our life, we have our mind and feelings.
We have also the spirit that is given from above and can be more or less(I believe its pure energy) but the soul is something else. I wonder what is the soul? Does anyone has some insight on this?

I used to wonder the same thing. Then I thought I found out, but I read a few of the responses and I'm not sure now which is which. I will tell you what I know.
When I experienced the most terrible thing, the death of my child, I felt something I'd never felt before. It is near your heart, if not in it. It changed. It felt crushed, and I felt the existence of it all the time. I felt changed, broken. It wasn't my logic or thoughts, but it played some underlying part, or vise versa. It wasn't a broken heart, I have had hundreds of those. It wasn't "feelings" or "logic", possibly "personality ", it was "I".

Original Happy Camper · Feb 16, 2020

Andrewn said:
I don't enjoy discussing soul consciousness bec I consider it so basic in Christianity that opposing it is a waste of time. However, let's forget about the word "soul."

I will ask all the SDA's here what the "spirit" is and what does it mean for the spirit to return to God. They certainly have no qualms about this.

Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Job 12:10
In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.

The Hebrew word for "breath" in Genesis 2:7 is neshamah: the life-giving principle. The breath is equivalent to life itself (Isaiah 2:22). Another Hebrew word which is translated 28 times as "breath" in the King James Version is ruach, which can also mean "wind," "disposition," or "spirit." It is translated 237 times as "spirit" in the KJV. In Genesis 2:7, God's breath makes the inanimate material come to life, and transforms it into a living soul.

Job correlates the usage of breath and the spirit, saying, "All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils" (Job 27:3).

Death: Understanding the Terminology | Breath, Life, Spirit

misput · Feb 16, 2020

Andrewn said:
I don't enjoy discussing soul consciousness bec I consider it so basic in Christianity that opposing it is a waste of time. However, let's forget about the word "soul."

I will ask all the SDA's here what the "spirit" is and what does it mean for the spirit to return to God. They certainly have no qualms about this.

Just as we do not know what it was to be with God before we were born, neither do we know what it means to be with Him after we die, except we know what it means to be with Him in this life is pretty wonderful and only a foretaste of what is to come.

Tra Phull · Feb 16, 2020

The doctrine of Soul Sleep makes me feel like vomiting.

magiani · Feb 16, 2020

Nancy Hale said:
I used to wonder the same thing. Then I thought I found out, but I read a few of the responses and I'm not sure now which is which. I will tell you what I know.
When I experienced the most terrible thing, the death of my child, I felt something I'd never felt before. It is near your heart, if not in it. It changed. It felt crushed, and I felt the existence of it all the time. I felt changed, broken. It wasn't my logic or thoughts, but it played some underlying part, or vise versa. It wasn't a broken heart, I have had hundreds of those. It wasn't "feelings" or "logic", possibly "personality ", it was "I".

I pray for your child and you. I can only imagine how painful this is. I think you've experience is indeed your soul hurt and than you in the deepest existence. Thanks for sharing.

Maria Billingsley · Feb 16, 2020

magiani said:
I wonder which part of us the soul is.

I believe we have many parts. Everyone has ego(or free will), child, critics and there are also other parts of us and we have our experiences during our life, we have our mind and feelings.
We have also the spirit that is given from above and can be more or less(I believe its pure energy) but the soul is something else. I wonder what is the soul? Does anyone has some insight on this?

I tend to agree with this....
Relation to Greek "psyche"
The only Hebrew word traditionally translated "soul" (nephesh) in English language Bibles refers to a living, breathing conscious body, rather than to an immortal soul.

Which part of us the soul is?

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