Which of the following are aspects of God:

[WittyBanter]

I heard this phrased a while back and wanted to present it here to find out which aspects of God you believe in.

1. God is all-powerful, and can control everything.
2. God is all-loving, and wants everyone to be saved.
3. Some people go to hell to suffer forever.

The gist is that any 2 of these can be true, but all 3 cannot be true. I am wondering which 2 most of the Christians here believe in. From a strict bible interpretation it would seem that 1 and 3 are correct, but the Christian Universalist is more about 1 and 2.

If for some reason you think all 3 are correct, please explain how that is possible. Thanks!

 

[HypnoToad]

Just because God can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that He must do that thing.

Just because God can control everything doesn't mean He will.

Just because God wants all to be saved doesn't mean He will, or has to, force everyone to be saved.

 

[izarya]

Just because God can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that He must or will do that thing.

Just because God can control everything doesn't mean He will.

Just because God wants all to be saved doesn't mean He will, or has to, force everyone to be saved.

Well said! Besides all these things, God must also keep his word so if He said that some people will not be saved... then they won't.

 

[Rafael]

I heard this phrased a while back and wanted to present it here to find out which aspects of God you believe in.

1. God is all-powerful, and can control everything.
2. God is all-loving, and wants everyone to be saved.
3. Some people go to hell to suffer forever.

The gist is that any 2 of these can be true, but all 3 cannot be true. I am wondering which 2 most of the Christians here believe in. From a strict bible interpretation it would seem that 1 and 3 are correct, but the Christian Universalist is more about 1 and 2.

If for some reason you think all 3 are correct, please explain how that is possible. Thanks!

Statement one, of course, is true, and God does desire that all would come to repentence according to the scripture (2Peter 3:9). The problem comes in how God gives man a choice between life and death - love and hate. Love cannot be forced between two individual beings, but has to be brought about by choice. So God does not intervene except by causing all things, including acts meant for evil, to come together for good; to those that love Him and are the called according to His purpose (Romans 8:28). He knows this by His power over the dimensions of time and eternity, so that evil deeds done, even the supposed victory the forces of evil had at the cross in crucifying Jesus, God in the flesh, led by the antithesis of God in satan, was turned into the good of salvation for all of mankind. God turns evil into good in the end, making the scripture true about better is the ending of a thing than the beginning (Ecl. 7:8).
There is much misunderstanding about hell, the lake of fire, and the future for those that hate God or prefer disobedience to the truth. Only He can be a just and true judge over His own creation, and us judging Him would be wrong and very vain, IMO. I trust that the innocent will not suffer like the guilty, and His word speaks of a greater punishmwent for those that know better but refuse to act upon revealed truth in their life (Mat.23:14).
There is good argument by the Universalists that God does not torture anyone for eternity and that annihilation, death, is the only choice other than life, but I have some doubts that it would be just to not make some suffer for their acts done in this life - at least in making the punishment fit the crime to some degree. Those who have repented of sin and asked for God's forgiveness have their sins and suffering nailed to the cross with Jesus over 2000 years ago and will have that suffering and death He bore for them as their judgment for sin.

 

[Jim47]

I heard this phrased a while back and wanted to present it here to find out which aspects of God you believe in.

1. God is all-powerful, and can control everything.
2. God is all-loving, and wants everyone to be saved.
3. Some people go to hell to suffer forever.

The gist is that any 2 of these can be true, but all 3 cannot be true. I am wondering which 2 most of the Christians here believe in. From a strict bible interpretation it would seem that 1 and 3 are correct, but the Christian Universalist is more about 1 and 2.

If for some reason you think all 3 are correct, please explain how that is possible. Thanks!

Why can't they all be true? Just because you don't understand it or don't want to believe it doesn't mean its not true.

 

[calidog]

Just because God can do a thing, it does not necessarily follow that He must do that thing.

Just because God can control everything doesn't mean He will.

Just because God wants all to be saved doesn't mean He will, or has to, force everyone to be saved.

well said.
Can we actually fully describe God and limit God to our definitions of Himself??

 

[WittyBanter]

This question was not as thought provoking to all of you as I thought. When I read it, and really thought about it, it made me realize the big differences in Christian sects.

If you really think about it though, if God truly loved everyone He would never put them in Hell. Even if the person chose it for themselves with their evil ways, I don't think an eternity of punishment would be consistent with a being of Love.

Cheers all!

 

[Jim47]

This question was not as thought provoking to all of you as I thought. When I read it, and really thought about it, it made me realize the big differences in Christian sects.

If you really think about it though, if God truly loved everyone He would never put them in Hell. Even if the person chose it for themselves with their evil ways, I don't think an eternity of punishment would be consistent with a being of Love.

Cheers all!

Would God sacrifice His own Son for a people who would deny Him and His Son only to try a reach a few who would believe Him? God's ways are above our ways and beyond our understanding. God did create both heaven and hell and you can be sure they will both be filled. For those who believe God they will inherit heaven, for those who fail to believe in Hin and take His Son to be their Savior they will not see God nor will they have any part in His heaven.

This is not what is taught by man, but by God Himself who made everything.

 

[ReformedChapin]

This question was not as thought provoking to all of you as I thought. When I read it, and really thought about it, it made me realize the big differences in Christian sects.

If you really think about it though, if God truly loved everyone He would never put them in Hell. Even if the person chose it for themselves with their evil ways, I don't think an eternity of punishment would be consistent with a being of Love.

Cheers all!

Could it be possible that God has elect and lets others keep in their corruption while saving others? By his grace he saves some for his purpose. It really depends on what you mean by LOVE.

 

[talitha]

My guess is that "Witty Banter" is gone from this thread for good. I believe that this guy was here to help us to think about something that might turn us away from our faith, whereas we are here to look for honest seekers, believing the best of everyone (that they are in this forum to seek God). He said, "This question was not as thought provoking to all of you as I thought."

This is a really good illustration of the fact that we have completely different reasons for coming to the Outreach Fora than most nonChristians. "Questions by NonChristians" seems to imply to many of them that we are entertaining the idea of questioning God, when the Christians who frequent this area are generally the least likely to do so.

just some thoughts - hoping this is not inappropriate to discuss here...... if not, I wonder where we might discuss how to improve the climate of this area, so to speak.....

blessings
tal

 

[calidog]

Yes, we are often offered the age old question "how can a God of love eternally punish the wicked."

 

[Deren]

I heard this phrased a while back and wanted to present it here to find out which aspects of God you believe in.

1. God is all-powerful, and can control everything.
2. God is all-loving, and wants everyone to be saved.
3. Some people go to hell to suffer forever.

The gist is that any 2 of these can be true, but all 3 cannot be true. I am wondering which 2 most of the Christians here believe in. From a strict bible interpretation it would seem that 1 and 3 are correct, but the Christian Universalist is more about 1 and 2.

If for some reason you think all 3 are correct, please explain how that is possible. Thanks!

All three are correct. For just because God is all-loving and desires that everyone be saved does not preclude the reality that some (or many) people end up in hell forever. Why? Simply because (1) a true definition of love does not automatically cancel out a true definition of justice, and (2) despite God's revealed will, it does not necessarily mean that that revelation entails infinite detail. There are many, many things that we do not know about God and His plans, and He intends to keep them that way (Deut. 29:29). Therefore, all three of your propositions are true, even though a finite understanding of them, coupled with what is often biblical ignorance in general, has a tendency to construe any one of them as being false.

 

[PhilosopherD]

The problem with this particular trilemna is that all three can be true.

1. The Christian God is all-powerful, but he articulation is often made on pretensious grounds. All-powerful in the Biblical text refers to the fact that God can do anything HE WANTS TO, not...He can simply do anything. The reason this typically is the thought is because people want to pigeon-hole a definition of Omnipotence on a being they have never interviewed themselves.

2. God is all-loving, that is he would desire for all the distinctive personalities He has created in this universe rejoin with Him...HOWEVER, not all distinct personalities want to rejoin with Him.

3. People are bothered that some will suffer eternal punishment, whether in Hell or oblivion, because they ignore the Bible's message that God is also a perfectly just God. Mercy and Justice are two sides of the same coin, without one the whole coin is pretty much worthless. Why? Because a God that would allow rebellious people into heaven, thus spoiling the happiness of other for eternity, could NOT POSSIBLY be a loving God.

 

[talitha]

oooohh trilemna..... mmmmm.......

that's almost as good as Diane getting everybody in Cheers to say "I shan't"......

okay, back to the thread.......

 

[PhilosopherD]

Oops...I made a typo. That's trilemma.

It could be made a word because it is based on actual words, whereas shan't and ain't aren't.

And its not as if Webster's came down out of heaven, perfect and inerrant. Languages change, words fall out due to disuse and new words, in fact thousands, obviously, have been introduced....thus....LOL...we have what we call 'Webster's Dictionary.'