Which Is The Most Important Part

[Bushido216]

Which is the most important part of the creation story? You decide.

 

[dirigo96]

The account of how the world was formed in Genesis 1 also includes the account of how God formed man (Adam) from the dust of the ground in His image, which then proceeds to the Fall and the need for a savior. So both go hand in hand.

How can one explain Man’s Fall from grace and the need for salvation, if Adam and the Fall is a myth? Remember, theistic evolution says that Genesis is a myth or allegory and death had existed on earth for millions of years. Hmmm, I remember somewhere in Genesis God curses the ground, after the Fall and to dust man shall return...could this mean death?

The real question should be, how did man Fall from Grace and need a savior, if Adam is a myth, the Fall a myth. Jesus Christ didn’t think it was a myth according to Matthew 19:4; ‘Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female…’

 

[Bushido216]

We're not saying that the Fall never happened, we're saying that Adam never happened. What we're saying is that with the knowledge of Good and Evil, man sinned.

BTW, that verse is Jesus telling people not to get divorced. He is referencing Creation as a tool to convey meaning.

 

[lucaspa]

The account of how the world was formed in Genesis 1 also includes the account of how God formed man (Adam) from the dust of the ground in His image, which then proceeds to the Fall and the need for a savior. So both go hand in hand.

How can one explain Man’s Fall from grace and the need for salvation, if Adam and the Fall is a myth? Remember, theistic evolution says that Genesis is a myth or allegory and death had existed on earth for millions of years. Hmmm, I remember somewhere in Genesis God curses the ground, after the Fall and to dust man shall return...could this mean death?

Last question first. No. Look at Genesis 2:17. Adam will die "in the day" he eats of the fruit. Adam lived 940 years. The death is spiritual, not physical.

The real question should be, how did man Fall from Grace and need a savior, if Adam is a myth, the Fall a myth.

Jesus Christ didn’t think it was a myth according to Matthew 19:4; ‘Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female…’

And here Jesus is referring to the spiritual message -- that men and women belong together -- and not the how they were formed. Humans were made male and female when God created thru evolution, too.

Now, how do you deal with the "Fall" if Adam is not literal? Easy. Adam is allegorical. This is pretty plain when you consider his name in Hebrew -- Dirt. Adam isn't a name like Paul or Steve or Sally, words used only in the language as names of people. Instead, we have a story of Dirt and Hearth. An allegory. Adam stands for each and every one of us. Each of us disobeys God and thus "sins" and is cut off from Him. Each of us sins and thus each of us needs a savior. Jesus came to save you. Not to save Adam.

The problem you have is that, in tying the untestable but supremely important issue of salvation to a very testable story of how creation happened, you run the risk that, when testing shows that the how of creation is wrong, you lose the supremely important salvation, also. And your post shows that fear plainly. The key here is to separate the two issues: the spiritual that is untestable and the how of creation, which is very testable. Bushido's point is that it doesn't really matter how God created. Salvation remains.

 

[DatingSmarts]

my view is that the tree of knowledge of good and bad was a poisining of the mind

to judge

to judge as good
to judge as evil

God said everything he created was good including adam and eve

once you eat of the fruit you are essentially judging yourself as evil
killing yourself
hence the fall from grace is cutting yourself off from God.

God was so merciful for the sense of shame that adam and eve felt that he made them cloths to cover their nakedness....nakedness which they felt was evil....god did not think they were evil...they did

he sent them away from the garden because the tree of life was planted there and he did not want them to eat that and live forever in their sinful state

 

[lucaspa]

The account of how the world was formed in Genesis 1 also includes the account of how God formed man (Adam) from the dust of the ground in His image, which then proceeds to the Fall and the need for a savior. So both go hand in hand.

Actually, Genesis 1 does not include the account of forming Adam from dust. That is Genesis 2. In Genesis 1, God forms "adamah" -- men and women (plural) by saying "Let us make". There is no mention of dust. Genesis 3 mentions no need of a savior. That is much later with Paul's letters and attempt to build Christian theology for Gentiles.

How can one explain Man’s Fall from grace and the need for salvation, if Adam and the Fall is a myth?

Very simple. Jesus died for your sins. Not Adam's. You sin. Therefore you need a savior. Whether Adam ever existed or not, you need a savior.

Remember, theistic evolution says that Genesis is a myth or allegory and death had existed on earth for millions of years.

Right. And Genesis 2:17 states that Adam will die in THE day that he eats the fruit. But Adam lived for 930 years. It's not physical death Genesis 2-3 is talking about, but spiritual death.

Hmmm, I remember somewhere in Genesis God curses the ground, after the Fall and to dust man shall return...could this mean death?

Not physical. The ground is cursed so that growing food is difficult. Returning to dust means that Adam is cut off from God.

The real question should be, how did man Fall from Grace and need a savior, if Adam is a myth, the Fall a myth.

Evolution has an answer. What caused the disobedience to God? Selfishness. Adam and Eve put their desires ahead of what God wanted. Well, what does natural selection produce? SELFISHNESS. Natural selection must select for traits that are useful to the individual. It cannot select for completely unselfishness. Our disobedience is a byproduct of how God created us. Genesis 2-3 has Dirt and Hearth (Adam and Eve) representing each and every one of us. We, each and every one, repeat Adam and Eve's disobedience. In a very real sense, you are Adam. I am Adam.

Jesus Christ didn’t think it was a myth according to Matthew 19:4; ‘Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female…’

Read all of Matthew 19. Jesus is using the scriptures as they were meant to be used -- as theology. Jesus is using scripture saying that men and women are bound together to back his point that divorce is not permitted. That binding of men and women works just as well with God creating us by evolution as poofing us into existence.

 

[DatingSmarts]

lucaspa falsely stated:

"Our disobedience is a byproduct of how God created us. Genesis 2-3 has Dirt and Hearth (Adam and Eve) representing each and every one of us. We, each and every one, repeat Adam and Eve's disobedience. In a very real sense, you are Adam. I am Adam."

adam and eve literally means

man and evil

it does NOT mean man and woman as is commonly thought

the woman's name was not 'eve'

eve is the word used for evil or sin

Isis means woman

 

[DatingSmarts]

so man and woman would literally be translated
as adam and isis

 

[DatingSmarts]

this proves that ADAm is the one who sinned...the man sinned
not the woman

 

[lucaspa]

lucaspa falsely stated:

"Our disobedience is a byproduct of how God created us. Genesis 2-3 has Dirt and Hearth (Adam and Eve) representing each and every one of us. We, each and every one, repeat Adam and Eve's disobedience. In a very real sense, you are Adam. I am Adam."

adam and eve literally means

man and evil

If you look in a Hebrew-English dictionary, you find that "adam" means "dirt" or "dust". "eve" means "hearth".

eve is the word used for evil or sin

Isis means woman

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=02332&version=kjv

"Chavvah" is "eve".
There are several words for woman used in the OT.
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?search=woman&version=kjv&type=eng&submit=Find

One of them is transliterated as ishshah. However, that doesn't mean "evil". There are 5 words used as "evil" http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?search=evil&version=kjv&type=eng&submit=Find and none of them are ishshah.

 

[lucaspa]

this proves that ADAm is the one who sinned...the man sinned
not the woman

How does your attempted translation show this? Genesis 3:1 -3 makes it clear that "the woman" knew of the command not to eat the fruit, for she repeated it to the serpent. Notice Genesis 3:6 "So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate." Notice the selfishness here: the fruit looked good and would give something to the woman. So she selfishly chose to get something for her and to disobey God.

Now, this is not to put the whole blame on Eve. After all, Adam ate too. It simply shows that both disobeyed. Notice that the word "sin" is not used. Nowhere in Genesis 3 is the word "sin" used. This is a later theory concocted by man.

 

[DatingSmarts]

EVE is original sin

isis is woman

eve is adam's fault
not woman's

 

[DatingSmarts]

adam means man who was formed from dust aka genetic material known as dna

 

[DatingSmarts]

by the way,
what are you an associate professor of and what did you earn college degrees in

also what does mc stand for in nymc

 

[DatingSmarts]

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=2331&version=kjv


oh, so you admit that God is a woman

 

[DatingSmarts]

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=0802&version=nas

this is woman as in isis and is the exact word used in genesis to describe her

 

[Larry]

The message of salvation is by far the most important message in the Bible, bar none.

 

[Macca]

[/font]

Last question first. No. Look at Genesis 2:17. Adam will die "in the day" he eats of the fruit. Adam lived 940 years. The death is spiritual, not physical.

And here Jesus is referring to the spiritual message -- that men and women belong together -- and not the how they were formed. Humans were made male and female when God created thru evolution, too.

Now, how do you deal with the "Fall" if Adam is not literal? Easy. Adam is allegorical. This is pretty plain when you consider his name in Hebrew -- Dirt. Adam isn't a name like Paul or Steve or Sally, words used only in the language as names of people. Instead, we have a story of Dirt and Hearth. An allegory. Adam stands for each and every one of us. Each of us disobeys God and thus "sins" and is cut off from Him. Each of us sins and thus each of us needs a savior. Jesus came to save you. Not to save Adam.

The problem you have is that, in tying the untestable but supremely important issue of salvation to a very testable story of how creation happened, you run the risk that, when testing shows that the how of creation is wrong, you lose the supremely important salvation, also. And your post shows that fear plainly. The key here is to separate the two issues: the spiritual that is untestable and the how of creation, which is very testable. Bushido's point is that it doesn't really matter how God created. Salvation remains.

 

[Macca]

[/font]

Last question first. No. Look at Genesis 2:17. Adam will die "in the day" he eats of the fruit. Adam lived 940 years. The death is spiritual, not physical.

And here Jesus is referring to the spiritual message -- that men and women belong together -- and not the how they were formed. Humans were made male and female when God created thru evolution, too.

Now, how do you deal with the "Fall" if Adam is not literal? Easy. Adam is allegorical. This is pretty plain when you consider his name in Hebrew -- Dirt. Adam isn't a name like Paul or Steve or Sally, words used only in the language as names of people. Instead, we have a story of Dirt and Hearth. An allegory. Adam stands for each and every one of us. Each of us disobeys God and thus "sins" and is cut off from Him. Each of us sins and thus each of us needs a savior. Jesus came to save you. Not to save Adam.

The problem you have is that, in tying the untestable but supremely important issue of salvation to a very testable story of how creation happened, you run the risk that, when testing shows that the how of creation is wrong, you lose the supremely important salvation, also. And your post shows that fear plainly. The key here is to separate the two issues: the spiritual that is untestable and the how of creation, which is very testable. Bushido's point is that it doesn't really matter how God created. Salvation remains.

If you cannot take the first 6 chapters of Genesis literally, then you will find you can also treat the rest of the Book the same, cut out anything you don't agree with, or makes you feel uncomfortable.
Perhaps it was only allegorical the suffering Jesus went through for us, He really didn't suffer too much at all.
Sorry, it doesn't wash. Either it is all true, or you throw it all away. The former for me.
Macca.

 

[DatingSmarts]

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?search=eve&version=kjv&type=heb&submit=Find

this is the hebrew 'eve' and it means evil, not woman


oh and get this:

when you look at the symbol used to convey eve or evil

it looks like a snake
it is a crooked letter, which symbolizes crooked speech

here it is: 1W[