Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

Montalban said:
There are records. The Gospels were in part passed down by oral teaching.
And Paul, as I quoted, stated in written form what he had heard.
Try again.

Indeed, but I was speaking of outside the Scriptures. That is my point. We have these teachings, words of Jesus, recorded. But now we are to interpret them through the lens of later fathers? Why not rather judge them by Jesus' words?

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

Montalban said:
Jesus is not lessened by the Eucharistic meal

Indeed not, it is not a sacrifice.

So you keep reckoning, but Paul, as I pointed out, said its something to be repeated; which is akin to praying repeatedly, and going to church repeatedly, but you're intent at selectively use of these items.

And I said again that it is to be repeated, but it is not a sacrifice.

Funny, because you're guilty of exactly that. Paul said it's to be repeated. Ignatius confirms it. You ignore it. And around we go.

And I have acknowledged at least three times that it is to be repeated. but is not a sacrifice. So no, it is not the same. And you reject the book of Hebrews which spells out the new covenant.

tall73 said:
so far you have demonstrated that you didn't know:
a. Jesus was our High Priest in the Scriptures[/qutoe]
You mean I didn't address it, because it's irrelevant. IF Jesus is High Priest, how are the lower priestly orders done away with? You just think so.

You did not even admit it was in the Bible until I posted it four times. And now you look at the word bishop and say priest.

Odd then that he tells us to obey our bishops, and the Apostles went around laying on hands.

odd indeed that he did not call them priests.

You've still not addressed the fact that you said Paul never went to the Temple.

lol, of course not. Not to you. I only posted post 83 about 5 times. But you read it and lie. Over and over and over you lie. Don't even you acknowledge that lying is prohibited in the NT?

Where?

In your post on succession.

So far you've used a wad of emotive language, repeating "HEBREWS 8" as if that amounts to discussion, and refusing to look at your mistakes about Ignatius, the Temple, etc.

There were no mistakes about ignatius, he never said priests. Nor was there a mistake about the temple, just you continual lies in the face of the truth. You looked right at the post and said it was something other than it was. Not once but numerous times you have done this.

Like merely citing "HEBREWS 8" amounts to discussion

Indeed it does when some of the key issues are discussed in Hebrews. But I have actually quoted from more than one chapter of the book.

Oops, there you go again, like a wind-up doll

indeed. I continually point you to what the Scriptures say. You claim your church compiled them, do you not want to read them?

Your contribution to this is to state over and over again the same 'answer' as if it fits any question.

And yours is to ignore any answer and to lie. You started way back in the first thread to say I repeat myself. Only then it was on other evidence. And why? Because you look right at the page and pretend it away.

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

Montalban said:
As long as you believe 'respect' works both ways; so far you're not showing any inclination of this, so I in turn, though answering you will be brief, and let others speak.

And what respect is that? You have lied, said I repeat myself, that I dont pray. You never once gave respect. I have now taken to pointing this out and you complain of respect. So now I am asking direct questions to see if in fact you will answer.

It's irrelevant. If He is, it doesn't negate any lesser prirestly office, which is why the NT has bishops, priests and deacons.

If He is? I only posted about 17 incidents of it from Hebrews. Why the if? And where did it say in the Bible they were priestly orders? It never did.

In what context? (See below), there are different forms of 'mediator'.*

You asked the same thing last time and I cited the text. Still haven't looked it up? And this one isn't even in Hebrews.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10118a.htm

But then again answering you and you repeating "HEBREWS 8" are signs of different modes of respect.

Then define in what way they are mediators, and see if it is not in your mind to provide a way to God and salvation, which was reserved for Christ.

*Jesus says we have one Father, but this too is not true, unless you understand the sense of the word, because we have an earthly father and a spiritual father.

And it is quite clear which is which is it not? Now do you have an earthly and a heavenly mediator?

Cliff2 · Dec 16, 2005

Here we are and nearly 1,300 posts and not one of them can say with any support from the Bible that the Sabbath has been changed, that Sunday is now the Sabbath.

This is the question.

Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath?

Why don't we just stick to this question and give a direct answer.

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week which is Saturday.

For those who believe differently, show us the text to support what you believe.

That is all that is required.

Stand up, speak up, and shut up.

I do not think that is too hard to do.

Montalban · Dec 16, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Here we are and nearly 1,300 posts and not one of them can say with any support from the Bible that the Sabbath has been changed, that Sunday is now the Sabbath.

That's simply not true. Many have cited evidence for "The Lord's Day"

Both you and Tall73 seem to be remarkable at not seeing this; but at least you are not insulting.

I think this is the tactic of SDA... plough on ahead regardless and repeat there is no evidence for what you already don't believe in.

This thread is pretty well dead because of it.

moicherie · Dec 16, 2005

Montalban said:
That's simply not true. Many have cited evidence for "The Lord's Day"

Both you and Tall73 seem to be remarkable at not seeing this; but at least you are not insulting.

I think this is the tactic of SDA... plough on ahead regardless and repeat there is no evidence for what you already don't believe in.

This thread is pretty well dead because of it.

But where is the bible texts that states that The Lord's Day = The first day of the week = Sunday? If Jesus or the apostles had a revelation for making such a major change - e.g like from Passover to Communion then would it not have been recorded by either Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul, Jude, James or Peter? To assume just because one believe's The First day, (what our culture chooses to call Sunday) is the Sabbath therefore Sunday = The Lords day I might as well argue if I choose to believe The Fourth Day of the week (what our culture calls Wednesday) is the Sabbath then Wednesday = The Lords Day. All I personally asks for are bible texts that state the First day of the week is now The Sabbath of the Lord thy God or something similar (The name Sunday did not exist then)

woobadooba · Dec 16, 2005

You said,

Montalban said:
Both you and Tall73 seem to be remarkable at not seeing this; but at least you are not insulting.

And then you said,

I think this is the tactic of SDA... plough on ahead regardless and repeat there is no evidence for what you already don't believe in.

And this is not an insulting statement?

I've been following this thread for some time now, and the two people that I see here who have been the most insulting here, especially to SDAs, are you and Normann.

And by the way, the arguments that have been given in support of the 7th day Sabbath have been precise, logical, and exegetical.

Neither one of you have refuted them. But the both of you have been thoroughly refuted on numerous occasions.

So perhaps you should listen to the SDA brethren on this one.

CaliforniaJosiah · Dec 16, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Here we are and nearly 1,300 posts and not one of them can say with any support from the Bible that the Sabbath has been changed, that Sunday is now the Sabbath.

This is the question.

Why don't we just stick to this question and give a direct answer.

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week which is Saturday.

For those who believe differently, show us the text to support what you believe.

That is all that is required.

Stand up, speak up, and shut up.

I do not think that is too hard to do.

I confess, this entire thread has pretty much gone right over my not-so-smart head...

Ahha. Sabbath is Hebrew for Saturday.

Okay...

So?

I don't know of anyone who claims otherwise.

I think every day is "the Lord's day."

I don't know what ANY of this has to do with corporal worship, IF that's the point of this discussion (which, I confess, I totally don't know what it is).

Peace be with you...

- Josiah

.

Normann · Dec 16, 2005

Cliff2 said:
Here we are and nearly 1,300 posts and not one of them can say with any support from the Bible that the Sabbath has been changed, that Sunday is now the Sabbath.

This is the question.

Why don't we just stick to this question and give a direct answer.

The Sabbath is the 7th day of the week which is Saturday.

For those who believe differently, show us the text to support what you believe.

Hey Cliff, here we are and I didn't count the posts but as yet no one has given scripture showing that God rested on Saturday!

There is not one place in the Bible that proves God or anyone ever rested on Saturday!

2 Tim 2:15
IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Normann · Dec 16, 2005

CaliforniaJosiah said:
I confess, this entire thread has pretty much gone right over my not-so-smart head...

Ahha. Sabbath is Hebrew for Saturday.

- Josiah .

Not so; below is the Hebrew meaning of the word sabbath.

shabbath, Hebrew shabbath, shab-bawth'; (shabath); intermission,

The word "sabbath" has nothing to do at all with a day of the week or the name of a day. It simply means (rest) (stop working).

2 Tim 2:15
IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

CaliforniaJosiah · Dec 16, 2005

Normann said:
Not so; below is the Hebrew meaning of the word sabbath.

shabbath, Hebrew shabbath, shab-bawth'; (shabath); intermission,

The word "sabbath" has nothing to do at all with a day of the week or the name of a day. It simply means (rest) (stop working).

Thank you for that correction...

So, what is the Hebrew word for the 7th day of the week?

Normann · Dec 16, 2005

[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them...[/font]

Normann

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them...[/font]

Normann

Normann, I thought you wanted only Bible evidence. But you seem willing to say anything against our church, when we have stuck to biblical evidence.

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

Montalban said:
That's simply not true. Many have cited evidence for "The Lord's Day"

Both you and Tall73 seem to be remarkable at not seeing this; but at least you are not insulting.

I think this is the tactic of SDA... plough on ahead regardless and repeat there is no evidence for what you already don't believe in.

This thread is pretty well dead because of it.

What is your definition of replaced?
If they are observing Sabbath and Sunday, that is not replaced. So the existence of a Lord's day does not show your point.

tall73 · Dec 16, 2005

CaliforniaJosiah said:
I confess, this entire thread has pretty much gone right over my not-so-smart head...

Ahha. Sabbath is Hebrew for Saturday.

Okay...

So?

I don't know of anyone who claims otherwise.

I think every day is "the Lord's day."

I don't know what ANY of this has to do with corporal worship, IF that's the point of this discussion (which, I confess, I totally don't know what it is).

Peace be with you...

- Josiah

.

Hey there Josiah.

We are looking at whether there remains a biblical mandate to keep the Sabbath. The discussion is looking at the biblical evidence and the ECF evidence. For a recap of the ECF evidence see the first two posts in the thread. For the biblical evidence, it is right now centering on the nature of the covenants. You can look through this thread, and the one it was split from to get those (long though, 1k posts, plus).

Cliff2 · Dec 16, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them...[/font]

Normann

Normann

When did I quote EGW to support anything I have wrote here.

You are taking things right out of context by throwing in a reference to EGW.

Perhaps I my original question should have been

"Which day of the Week does the Bible say the Sabbath is"?

That way no one could have thrown in such statemnets as you have done to side track he discussion.

woobadooba · Dec 16, 2005

Normann said:
[font=Liberate,Brush Script MT,Arial]They won't tell you that they consider themselves to be the only, true, remnant Church. Their prophetess, Ellen G. White, whom they revere and believe without question has told them...[/font]

Normann

Please give us the book, page number, and paragraph where she says SDAs are the remnant church.

BigNorsk · Dec 16, 2005

I have a hard time believing these Sabbath thread are still going. I remember clearly answering about the Sabbath long long ago.

First Christ did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it. Fulfilling it does not as the Sabbath keepers take it mean that nothing has changed, the law pointed to Christ, but it was not clear to us, now it has been clearly revealed and we should not again veil the revelation.

It is not that the Sabbath has been changed from Saturday to Sunday. No, the Sabbath as such now occurs "Today". The real Sabbath is the rest we receive from our works in Jesus Christ. We should not turn from his grace and attempt to perfect it by returning to the law, if they law could have brought rest there would have been no need for Jesus, but the law could not bring rest and so he came totally by grace and gives us rest.

Those who preach a Saturday Sabbath want to take people from their position of resting in Jesus from their works and again subject them to the law. The gospel fulfills the law, people shouldn't turn from the gospel and replace it with the law.

Could we have Saturday as our main day off for worship? Sure, except for one thing. The Sabbath keepers would see that as an affirmation that the keeping of Saturday as the Sabbath is indeed the correct position. Since we are told not to cause our weaker brother to stumble, it really wouldn't be proper for us to strengthen his belief in a mistaken position. Observing the law as the road to righteousness is very dangerous.

Marv

stone · Dec 16, 2005

BigNorsk said:
I have a hard time believing these Sabbath thread are still going. I remember clearly answering about the Sabbath long long ago.

Marv

and you think your answer is correct?

let's see, hmm.. yep, it's still saturday says so right here in this book called a bible.

so g-d doesnt change for anything or contradict himself with anything, except for what your theology says?

stone · Dec 16, 2005

Jesus said to follow my commandments if you love me, he didn't say anything about the law being the road to rightousness. I think this is your interpretation.

Which Day of the Week is the Sabbath? (2)

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