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Where's Pauls name?

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jeffweeder

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9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full[7][Lit who were full ] of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."


10 And he carried me away in[8][Or in spirit ] the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance[9][Lit luminary ] was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
12 It[10][Lit having ] had a great and high wall, with[11][Lit having ] twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
13 There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


If Paul was given a mystery gospel that would build the church,-form the body/bride of Christ, then his name most certainly should appear on at least one foundation stone,-But it dont.
This then shows, that Paul didnt preach anything different, as he wouldnt dare lay any other foundation, than the one laid above.
 

yeshuasavedme

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9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full[7][Lit who were full ] of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."


10 And he carried me away in[8][Or in spirit ] the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
11 having the glory of God. Her brilliance[9][Lit luminary ] was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
12 It[10][Lit having ] had a great and high wall, with[11][Lit having ] twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels; and names were written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel.
13 There were three gates on the east and three gates on the north and three gates on the south and three gates on the west.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundation stones, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.


If Paul was given a mystery gospel that would build the church,-form the body/bride of Christ, then his name most certainly should appear on at least one foundation stone,-But it dont.
This then shows, that Paul didnt preach anything different, as he wouldnt dare lay any other foundation, than the one laid above.
And he didn't!
He's a fellow building stone in the living Memorial City of Zion, which is built of Living Stones, made alive by the Living Spirit of regeneration, built upon the Chief Foundation Stone, Jesus Christ, who is the Firstborn. HEad and Chief, of the New Man, who is the Living Spirit in human flesh of the second human being creation, the Redeemer/Kinsman to Adam and legal heir to all Adam lost.

Paul, as a member of the tribe of Benjamin, is included in the inscription on the Benjamin Gate, also, which the 12 gates named after the twelve tribes are a "carbuncle" made pearl, according to Scripture. Through much tribulation the twelve tribes get in -as we all do who have a "memorial stone" in that City.
 
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Tychicum

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This then shows, that Paul didnt preach anything different, as he wouldnt dare lay any other foundation, than the one laid above.
So are you proposing that Paul was not an apostle? Speaking for God ... ?

Paul's promise was quite different than the 12. Nope he gets no physical throne and no physical stone ...

Only gets as a member of the body of Christ to reign with Christ as co-inheriter of all spiritual blessings as "consort" to the King. Not a subject to the King ... but His bride.

Same foundation. Just a different floor on the building.

A 13th floor (so to speak). Jew and Gentile no difference as the wall of separation was taken down.

This was entirely new.

A mystery not explained in prophecy ... alluded to ... but kept secret in the inner counsel of God ... from the foundation of the world ...


.
 
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jeffweeder

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So are you proposing that Paul was not an apostle? Speaking for God ... ?

No

Paul's promise was quite different than the 12.

How?


"Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."


Where in the following verses is the bride explained?

This was entirely new
behold i make all things new, this includes man-jew or gentile-behold God's masterpiece, his workmanship,
Christ is the cornerstone and the 12 are the foundation.

 
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Tychicum

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Well he wasn't promised a throne for one ... ;)

Actually the study of what promises were made to Christians as opposed to the Jews is quite an interesting one. Almost 100% of the promise to the Jews is physical ... from land to long life. Our promise (neither Jew nor Gentile but the new ... Christian ...) is heavenly. Entirely.

You bring up the bride ... I am still forming an opinion as to whether or not the Body of Christ is the Bride or not. Oh yes the great majority of opinions run that it is the bride ... but I do tend to question everything to see if Scripture says it is so.

I have changed opinion several times over the last 30 years of so of study on the matter. Several people I regard as experts are on both sides of the question.

†
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Well he wasn't promised a throne for one ... ;)

Actually the study of what promises were made to Christians as opposed to the Jews is quite an interesting one. Almost 100% of the promise to the Jews is physical ... from land to long life. Our promise (neither Jew nor Gentile but the new ... Christian ...) is heavenly. Entirely.

You bring up the bride ... I am still forming an opinion as to whether or not the Body of Christ is the Bride or not. Oh yes the great majority of opinions run that it is the bride ... but I do tend to question everything to see if Scripture says it is so.

I have changed opinion several times over the last 30 years of so of study on the matter. Several people I regard as experts are on both sides of the question.

†
We are the bride of Christ, made one in His Spirit and to be presented to Him flesh of His flesh bone of His bone at the regeneration of our bodies made in His image.
Every redeemed person is the "bride" -both Jew and Gentile, for when YHWH took the woman from Adam, it was a type and shadow of the Chruch being taken from the New Man -Spirit and flesh.

Malachi 2:15 says Adam, the male and female [Genesis 5:2] was made one spirit, to produce godly seed =sons of God.

The New Man makes us one Spirit in Him by the adoption, and at the adoption of our bodies, we will be bone of His bone flesh of His flesh [which we posses by faith, in hope, now, but shall be perfected in the regenerated body , and presented to Him as His "Ishyah" and the adopted seed -else we would not have eternal life, remaining in Adam.

.
And Paul was promised that he would inherit the throne of glory, with all the meek of the earth -in Him we all will share the rule of the dominion first given to Adam, when heaven is reunited with earth in the regeneration, from which this earth is cut off from at the fall.
 
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Tychicum

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Actually it makes more sense that the Body of Christ is NOT the bride. After all Israel was Jehovah's wife ... they have been through a divorce ... but the whole of prophecy explains that they are about to reconcile.

The gentile is the interloper.

But God hasn't had a habit of making sense ... He doesn't need to ... He is God. So that argument is a poor one. That is unless you think it is quite all right to have more than one wife at the same time ... Israel and His own Body.

Perhaps it is the metaphor that is my issue ...

That is worth a thread of its own. I will wait a while until the topics already started chill a bit and then initiate a new one to consider.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Actually it makes more sense that the Body of Christ is NOT the bride. After all Israel was Jehovah's wife ... they have been through a divorce ... but the whole of prophecy explains that they are about to reconcile.

The gentile is the interloper.

But God hasn't had a habit of making sense ... He doesn't need to ... He is God. So that argument is a poor one. That is unless you think it is quite all right to have more than one wife at the same time ... Israel and His own Body.

Perhaps it is the metaphor that is my issue ...

That is worth a thread of its own. I will wait a while until the topics already started chill a bit and then initiate a new one to consider.
Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his
['ishshah] wife: and they shall be one flesh.

'ishshah; AV - wife 425, woman 324, one 10, married 5, female 2, misc 14; 780
The “woman“, Israel, is the “wife” of Christ, who was always from the beginning going to come in the second human being created body of New Man flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer, as the Living and only begotten Son of God -“Israel”.

So what, biblically speaking, then, is Israel, the woman, in relation to Israel, the man [Jacob], and Israel, the New Man, Jesus, the Christ?
~~~
Each single person who is born again from above by the Spirit of adoption is by that adoption joined to the One Living Spirit, made One in Christ’s Living Spirit and will be, with Him, One Spirit and fleshed and boned as “bone of His bone flesh of His flesh" in the regeneration of the body. Malachi 2:15 Adam is made one spirit, male and female -genesis 5:2, because YHWH sought "sons" to indwell in His glorious presence.


The nation which has the name of the “husband” ['iysh] is the “wife” ['ishshah] -the Church, which is the nation that is not a people, has the regeneration of Spirit [made one in Spirit] -which was promised to Abraham- and is to get the name, “Israel”, also, when “she” as the Church, which is also called the “sons of God” by adoption, which is also coming to the maturity of the “Man Child” at the first harvest of earth’s sons- will also then be the “wife” ['ishshah] along with all who are joined to the New [iysh] Man’s One Spirit: and all will be “bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh in the regeneration promised first, through Abraham‘s Seed.

He will not have two “wives“, as it is the One Spirit [Christ] which is “fleshed and boned” in His New Man image which is the “One“ “wife” eternally.

The namesake nation had all the promises by faith, and were given the oracles of all the truth of His Person and work to redeem His own creation as kinsman, and served Him to produce “sons of God“ for the glory of the Father to indwell in the regeneration; the One Church is joined to the One “commonwealth of Israel” in the One Spirit, and will be regenerated in bodies made in His own New Man image -all “One wife -'ishshah] “ of the ‘One “New Man” “iysh“.

Check it out in the Word of God, beginning in Genesis, and see the purpose of the “male and female” made ‘one” in spirit to produce “godly seed” =sons of God [MalachI 2:15, for the Father to indwell in His glory, and then see the purpose of the “New Man” as the New iysh and His “ishyah“ -both called “Israel“ as the first iysh and his ishyah were called "Adam".











 
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yeshuasavedme

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Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

1Sa 2:8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, [and] lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set [them] among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD'S, and he hath set the world upon them.

Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his
['ishshah] wife: and they shall be one flesh.

'ishshah; AV - wife 425, woman 324, one 10, married 5, female 2, misc 14; 780
The “woman“, Israel, is the “wife” of Christ, who was always from the beginning going to come in the second human being created body of New Man flesh as Kinsman/Redeemer, as the Living and only begotten Son of God -“Israel”.

So what, biblically speaking, then, is Israel, the woman, in relation to Israel, the man [Jacob], and Israel, the New Man, Jesus, the Christ?
~~~
Each single person who is born again from above by the Spirit of adoption is by that adoption joined to the One Living Spirit, made One in Christ’s Living Spirit and will be, with Him, One Spirit and fleshed and boned as “bone of His bone flesh of His flesh" in the regeneration of the body. Malachi 2:15 Adam is made one spirit, male and female -genesis 5:2, because YHWH sought "sons" to indwell in His glorious presence.


The nation which has the name of the “husband” ['iysh] is the “wife” ['ishshah] -the Church, which is the nation that is not a people, has the regeneration of Spirit [made one in Spirit] -which was promised to Abraham- and is to get the name, “Israel”, also, when “she” as the Church, which is also called the “sons of God” by adoption, which is also coming to the maturity of the “Man Child” at the first harvest of earth’s sons- will also then be the “wife” ['ishshah] along with all who are joined to the New [iysh] Man’s One Spirit: and all will be “bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh in the regeneration promised first, through Abraham‘s Seed.

He will not have two “wives“, as it is the One Spirit [Christ] which is “fleshed and boned” in His New Man image which is the “One“ “wife” eternally.

The namesake nation had all the promises by faith, and were given the oracles of all the truth of His Person and work to redeem His own creation as kinsman, and served Him to produce “sons of God“ for the glory of the Father to indwell in the regeneration; the One Church is joined to the One “commonwealth of Israel” in the One Spirit, and will be regenerated in bodies made in His own New Man image -all “One wife -'ishshah] “ of the ‘One “New Man” “iysh“.

Check it out in the Word of God, beginning in Genesis, and see the purpose of the “male and female” made ‘one” in spirit to produce “godly seed” =sons of God [MalachI 2:15, for the Father to indwell in His glory, and then see the purpose of the “New Man” as the New iysh and His “ishyah“ -both called “Israel“ as the first iysh and his ishyah were called "Adam".











Tychicum, look:
Rev 22:14Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

without;
exo {ex'-o} 1) without, out of doors

AV - without 23, out 16, out of 15, forth 8, outward 1,
strange 1, away 1; 65

outer;
exoteros {ex-o'-ter-os}
comparative of “exo” -from “ex” a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

To be out of the City, which is the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife, is to be in the outer darkness which is the second death, which is the lake of fire.

If you are not included in the city, then you have no eternal Life, as the reborn in Spirit "'ishshah"of the second created"'iysh", the Only begotten fully human being Son of the living God -the Word of God come in New Man flesh of the second human being creation..
 
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Tychicum

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Tychicum, look:
Rev 22:14Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

without;
exo {ex'-o} 1) without, out of doors

AV - without 23, out 16, out of 15, forth 8, outward 1,
strange 1, away 1; 65

outer;
exoteros {ex-o'-ter-os}
comparative of “exo” -from “ex” a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative

Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

To be out of the City, which is the Bride, the Lamb’s Wife, is to be in the outer darkness which is the second death, which is the lake of fire.

If you are not included in the city, then you have no eternal Life, as the reborn in Spirit "'ishshah"of the second created"'iysh", the Only begotten fully human being Son of the living God -the Word of God come in New Man flesh of the second human being creation..
The whole of the book of Revelation is what ... ? Prophetic of a time which is NOT the Church ... it pertains to the Jews from the first book to the Last.

The book of Matthew was BEFORE the cross. It is probably the most Jewish book of the New Testament ... it is with respect to the KINGDOM era.

If you don't understand the distinction you will always trip over conflicting statements regarding works vs. grace. The two systems conflict right out of the chute.

.
 
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Tychicum

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Seven Churches Are Mentioned In Revelation
And I believe them to be seven... real ... honest-to-God ... Churches.

Not simply seven theoretical Churches which may spiritually depict the passage of time from the resurrection until He returns.

The original application of the seven was likely to seven existing congregations at the time which John set pen to paper.

However it is a book of what ... ? Prophecy. What does John say ...
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
(Rev 1:1-3)
So John said it is prophetic ... I believe Him. It is also decidedly Jewish ... from top to bottom Jewish. It pertains to Israel, her promises, and the fulfilment of many yet outstanding Hebrew prophecies. So I believe they are seven Jewish Churches of the Tribulation period.

In a "rear view mirror" kind of way I can see what writers mean when they say it aligns with the different churches over the past 2,000 years ... but that is constructed at best ... and not a "foretelling" prophetic message people of those churches.

Because if it was ... they missed it ... so the point was lost.

It was only a few years ago that writers began describing the seven as different churches over the last 2,000 years ...


.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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Seven Churches Are Mentioned In Revelation
And they all are a branch of the One Light -with the oath that if the rebuked ones did not repent of the things the One holding them commanded, then their "Light" would be removed -can you say taken away, as in "cut off branches"?
 
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